Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[Ren Wo Xing]

Quick note - the problem with lowering Feng Qingyang is that RWX was already impressed with him... before FQY learned DG9J. When RWX first started to spar with LHC, after a few exchanges he quickly shouted, "Okay, fess up, who tf taught you swordsmanship?! There's no way FQY could've taught you this, Huashan swordsmanship isn't this badass!" Which means all his understanding/impressions of FQY are pre-DG9J for FQY - and FQY should be waaaaay better than LHC at DG9J.

[Western Eccentric]

Quick note - the problem with lowering Feng Qingyang is that RWX was already impressed with him... before FQY learned DG9J. When RWX first started to spar with LHC, after a few exchanges he quickly shouted, "Okay, fess up, who tf taught you swordsmanship?! There's no way FQY could've taught you this, Huashan swordsmanship isn't this badass!" Which means all his understanding/impressions of FQY are pre-DG9J for FQY - and FQY should be waaaaay better than LHC at DG9J.

But when in Shaolin he said that FQY swordmanship better than him he only mentioned his sword skill not "overall skill" of FQY so though he might be better than RWX I think the difference between them not that big perhaps like YG and HYS which HYS admit that he is not YG match in palm skill..

Btw I agree FQY DG9S much better than LHC but LHC surpassing him in internal aspect so the difference between them also shouldn't that big

[FeilongZ]

Quick note - the problem with lowering Feng Qingyang is that RWX was already impressed with him... before FQY learned DG9J. When RWX first started to spar with LHC, after a few exchanges he quickly shouted, "Okay, fess up, who tf taught you swordsmanship?! There's no way FQY could've taught you this, Huashan swordsmanship isn't this badass!" Which means all his understanding/impressions of FQY are pre-DG9J for FQY - and FQY should be waaaaay better than LHC at DG9J.

If we had to leave FQY's level at 80, it is ok, but I truely doubt his level is this high.
However, we need to add/rank post-16 YG with the legendary HIS.

I think in a clash between YG vs FQY,
YG would overwhelm him with the HIS and its ingenious techniques.
"Simplicity brings superiority"

[Ren Wo Xing]

But when in Shaolin he said that FQY swordmanship better than him he only mentioned his sword skill not "overall skill" of FQY so though he might be better than RWX I think the difference between them not that big perhaps like YG and HYS which HYS admit that he is not YG match in palm skill..

Btw I agree FQY DG9S much better than LHC but LHC surpassing him in internal aspect so the difference between them also shouldn't that big

I think it's worth pointing out that RWX admired three people - DFBB, Fang Zheng, and FQY. The first two were both better than him - this strongly suggests the third, Feng Qingyang, is also better than him. As for Chong Xu, the person he admired by a 'half', one of the main reasons he only half-admired Chong Xu was because he wasn't sure if Chong Xu could beat him - further suggesting he thought the three he fully admired could.

That said, there's just not enough information to suggest exactly what level FQY's internal energy is in the story, so as the rankings indicate - his level can be very variable.

[Western Eccentric]

I think it's worth pointing out that RWX admired three people - DFBB, Fang Zheng, and FQY. The first two were both better than him - this strongly suggests the third, Feng Qingyang, is also better than him. As for Chong Xu, the person he admired by a 'half', one of the main reasons he only half-admired Chong Xu was because he wasn't sure if Chong Xu could beat him - further suggesting he thought the three he fully admired could.

That said, there's just not enough information to suggest exactly what level FQY's internal energy is in the story, so as the rankings indicate - his level can be very variable.

Agree but we have Feng Boping FQY junior from sword-faction and I think though his inner strength quite good but not "special" perhaps only on par with Bujie Monk at best so FQY should be around FBP or Bujie Monk in internal which much inferior than RWX or Fangzheng so his overall skills should be decreased to Lv 70 - 75..

[Ren Wo Xing]

Agree but we have Feng Boping FQY junior from sword-faction and I think though his inner strength quite good but not "special" perhaps only on par with Bujie Monk at best so FQY should be around FBP or Bujie Monk in internal which much inferior than RWX or Fangzheng so his overall skills should be decreased to Lv 70 - 75..

Feng Buping's existence actually is a positive for FQY, not a negative - throughout the Jinyong-verse, the older you get the more powerful/more refined your internal energy becomes. You might be held back due to your physical limitations/age, but your internal energy itself generally only gets better and better. There is no question in my mind that FQY's internal energy should be dramatically superior to FBP - FBP was just a 'good' Sword Branch cultivator, while FQY was the 'best' Sword Branch cultivator Huashan ever produced.

[Western Eccentric]

Feng Buping's existence actually is a positive for FQY, not a negative - throughout the Jinyong-verse, the older you get the more powerful/more refined your internal energy becomes. You might be held back due to your physical limitations/age, but your internal energy itself generally only gets better and better. There is no question in my mind that FQY's internal energy should be dramatically superior to FBP - FBP was just a 'good' Sword Branch cultivator, while FQY was the 'best' Sword Branch cultivator Huashan ever produced.

Nach the problem is Huashan is not school well known for their superior "internal cultivation" like Quanzhen or Wudang especially both of FQY and FBP come from sword-faction which logically their inner strength should be inferior than people from qi-sword..

[a_tumiwa]

But when in Shaolin he said that FQY swordmanship better than him he only mentioned his sword skill not "overall skill" of FQY so though he might be better than RWX I think the difference between them not that big perhaps like YG and HYS which HYS admit that he is not YG match in palm skill..

Btw I agree FQY DG9S much better than LHC but LHC surpassing him in internal aspect so the difference between them also shouldn't that big

so you mean RWX's swordmanship is weaker than his bare-handed?
dont think that because RWX used xixingdafa and fought bare-handed in shaolin, then you think his bare-handed martial arrts is bettter than swordmanship.
i dont think so, other than our @renwoxing's replay, if i can add, in the plum manor, the 4 friends of jiangnan regarded him as number 1 swordsman, thus they initiate him to fight linghu chong. which mean, he is not a second class swordsman.
when in shaolin, ren woxing main objective was not destroying or burning shaolin, but checking the situation (of linghu chong and friends), so he didnt use sword when fighting them.
it's different when he was facing dong fang bu bai, a monster that he know far stronger than him, he prepare and use sword against DFBB, as it's very dangerous to fight that formidabble opponent bare-handed.
even if rwx's swordmanship is not higher than bare-handed, or lets say just equal,
in jin yong's universe, when a fighter with same level of good bare-handed martial arts and sworsplay martial arts, the weapon one was always upper hand. it's how we see Yang Guo disappointed that he didnt bring his HIS when fighting JLFW, how Hu Fei nearly lost the fight vs Yuan Ziyi, or how Zhang Wuji used holy flame tablets despite his weapon skill is not that good, or how zhang wuji used dragon sabre to fight persian emissaries or used rainbow sword against miejue shitai.
if opponent is good at weapon martial arts, then it's always better to equip yourself a weapon too (if you are good at it)
so my conclusion is .. Ren Woxing's swordmanship is not necessary lower than his bare-handed skill, at least on par. he is excellent in swordsmanship for sure

[Ren Wo Xing]

Nach the problem is Huashan is not school well known for their superior "internal cultivation" like Quanzhen or Wudang especially both of FQY and FBP come from sword-faction which logically their inner strength should be inferior than people from qi-sword..

The debate in Huashan was whether 'the sword guides the qi' or 'the qi guides the sword' - in other words, what to focus on. While the average 'qi branch' disciple would have superior qi to the average 'sword branch' disciple, averages mean nothing to the truly elite - it's likely that FQY had better qi and swordsmanship than anyone else in Huashan, certainly by the time of XAJH occurring!

One of the comments we saw during the FBP/LHC fight was this: "What the hell is going on? The qi-branch student has better sword skills, while the sword-branch uncle-master has better qi skills. Have the two branches swapped places for fun?!"

Think of it like this - an 'average' qi branch elite cultivator might have level 10 qi and level 6 swordsmanship, while an 'average' sword branch elite cultivator might have level 10 swordsmanship and level 6 qi. FQY, however, probably has level 20 swordsmanship and level 14 qi; his 'sword' still guides his 'qi', but that doesn't mean his qi is weak.

[a_tumiwa]

"Simplicity brings superiority"

it's a theory of HIS, a theory doesnt mean always true to all fights, it depends on the fighter himself.
that perspective is for the practitioner of that skill.

for example
theory of taiji = use softness to beat hardness => doesnt mean that taiji always win the fight vs hard type martial arts, or better than HIS (which is hard-type)
theory of 9-Dugu swordsplay = use no-move to beat a move or a theory that said to beat opponent that far faster and agile than you => but the reality is Linghu Chong would easily lost the fight when vs speedy DFBB

[Western Eccentric]

so you mean RWX's swordmanship is weaker than his bare-handed?
dont think that because RWX used xixingdafa and fought bare-handed in shaolin, then you think his bare-handed martial arrts is bettter than swordmanship.
i dont think so, other than our @renwoxing's replay, if i can add, in the plum manor, the 4 friends of jiangnan regarded him as number 1 swordsman, thus they initiate him to fight linghu chong. which mean, he is not a second class swordsman.
when in shaolin, ren woxing main objective was not destroying or burning shaolin, but checking the situation (of linghu chong and friends), so he didnt use sword when fighting them.
it's different when he was facing dong fang bu bai, a monster that he know far stronger than him, he prepare and use sword against DFBB, as it's very dangerous to fight that formidabble opponent bare-handed.
even if rwx's swordmanship is not higher than bare-handed, or lets say just equal,
in jin yong's universe, when a fighter with same level of good bare-handed martial arts and sworsplay martial arts, the weapon one was always upper hand. it's how we see Yang Guo disappointed that he didnt bring his HIS when fighting JLFW, how Hu Fei nearly lost the fight vs Yuan Ziyi, or how Zhang Wuji used holy flame tablets despite his weapon skill is not that good, or how zhang wuji used dragon sabre to fight persian emissaries or used rainbow sword against miejue shitai.
if opponent is good at weapon martial arts, then it's always better to equip yourself a weapon too (if you are good at it)
so my conclusion is .. Ren Woxing's swordmanship is not necessary lower than his bare-handed skill, at least on par. he is excellent in swordsmanship for sure

He might be good in sword art but I think he is not at YG or even HYS level in swordmanship since we don't know what technique he use and regarding unarmed vs armed it's depends on what weapon you use if you only use "ordinary" weapon (and skill) you still couldn't getting advantage at all just see JLFW he use his special wheels yet he still lose to YG..

[Western Eccentric]

The debate in Huashan was whether 'the sword guides the qi' or 'the qi guides the sword' - in other words, what to focus on. While the average 'qi branch' disciple would have superior qi to the average 'sword branch' disciple, averages mean nothing to the truly elite - it's likely that FQY had better qi and swordsmanship than anyone else in Huashan, certainly by the time of XAJH occurring!

One of the comments we saw during the FBP/LHC fight was this: "What the hell is going on? The qi-branch student has better sword skills, while the sword-branch uncle-master has better qi skills. Have the two branches swapped places for fun?!"

Think of it like this - an 'average' qi branch elite cultivator might have level 10 qi and level 6 swordsmanship, while an 'average' sword branch elite cultivator might have level 10 swordsmanship and level 6 qi. FQY, however, probably has level 20 swordsmanship and level 14 qi; his 'sword' still guides his 'qi', but that doesn't mean his qi is weak.

I don't say his qi is "weak" his qi really good but not "great" especially if we compared him with school that famous for inner energy cultivation like Shaolin Wudang or Quanzhen I even think his internal not at MY level an "mid-tier" character from L/ROCH..

[Western Eccentric]

it's a theory of HIS, a theory doesnt mean always true to all fights, it depends on the fighter himself.
that perspective is for the practitioner of that skill.

for example
theory of taiji = use softness to beat hardness => doesnt mean that taiji always win the fight vs hard type martial arts, or better than HIS (which is hard-type)
theory of 9-Dugu swordsplay = use no-move to beat a move or a theory that said to beat opponent that far faster and agile than you => but the reality is Linghu Chong would easily lost the fight when vs speedy DFBB

I think it's different with Tai Chi or DG9S since Tai Chi and DG9S don't have "super weapon" which allowed the user to maximize and manipulate his internal strength like HIS which not only about philosophy but also weapon..

[FeilongZ]

it's a theory of HIS, a theory doesnt mean always true to all fights, it depends on the fighter himself.
that perspective is for the practitioner of that skill.

for example
theory of taiji = use softness to beat hardness => doesnt mean that taiji always win the fight vs hard type martial arts, or better than HIS (which is hard-type)
theory of 9-Dugu swordsplay = use no-move to beat a move or a theory that said to beat opponent that far faster and agile than you => but the reality is Linghu Chong would easily lost the fight when vs speedy DFBB

Very good analysis.
However, Jinyong was asked if both practitioners mastered their own respective arts, DG9J vs Sunflower manual, who would win, Jinyong answered DG9J would be superior.

In correlation, there is no reason that Dugu qiubai's HIS and it ingenious techniques with six-year ocean training is not also superior to the Sunflower manual, DFBB.

[Western Eccentric]

I think it's different with Tai Chi or DG9S since Tai Chi and DG9S don't have "super weapon" which allowed the user to maximize and manipulate his internal strength like HIS which not only about philosophy but also weapon..

Also we see that HIS could beat someone at your caliber but we never see Tai Chi or DG9S beat people as strong as you..

[a_tumiwa]

He might be good in sword art but I think he is not at YG or even HYS level in swordmanship since we don't know what technique he use and regarding unarmed vs armed it's depends on what weapon you use if you only use "ordinary" weapon (and skill) you still couldn't getting advantage at all just see JLFW he use his special wheels yet he still lose to YG..

my replied above is not to compare RWX and YG and who is stonger, it's not my favorite topic and i even dont have any opinion who is stronger on that cross-novel thing . so no comment for that subject or debate.
i just want to said that , i am with our @Ren Wo Xing's answer about RWX and FenG Qingyang, if they really to fight again, then FengQing Yang with sword would beat RWX regardless RWX use weapon/sword or not (bare-handed).

[Western Eccentric]

Very good analysis.
However, Jinyong was asked if both practitioners mastered their own respective arts, DG9J vs Sunflower manual, who would win, Jinyong answered DG9J would be superior.

In correlation, there is no reason that Dugu qiubai's HIS and it ingenious techniques with six-year ocean training is not also superior to the Sunflower manual, DFBB.

If DGQB himself with HIS or DG9S fight DFBB of course he would win with easy but if is YG I highly doubt he could beat DFBB even with HIS..

[Western Eccentric]

my replied above is not to compare RWX and YG and who is stonger, it's not my favorite topic and i even dont have any opinion who is stronger on that cross-novel thing . so no comment for that subject or debate.
i just want to said that , i am with our @Ren Wo Xing's answer about RWX and FenG Qingyang, if they really to fight again, then FengQing Yang with sword would beat RWX regardless RWX use weapon/sword or not (bare-handed).

Agree about it but I think though FQY might be better than RWX the difference between them should be not that big (Lv 85 vs Lv 70) just like YG vs HYS which HYS couldn't match YG in palm style but he could match him in "power"..

[FeilongZ]

If DGQB himself with HIS or DG9S fight DFBB of course he would win with easy but if is YG I highly doubt he could beat DFBB even with HIS..

Ask post-16 YG if he could defeat a Gaylord/she-man.
I think he would answer, "Hell no, are you insulting me?" and unleash true Sad Palms on DFBB or use the HIS.

[Western Eccentric]

Ask post-16 YG if he could defeat a Gaylord/she-man.
I think he would answer, "Hell no, are you insulting me?" and unleash true Sad Palms on DFBB or use the HIS.

The problem is could YG keep pace constantly with DFBB well I doubt about it since you should "chase" your opponent for landed your strike to him..