Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[FeilongZ]

My once a year visit to SPCNet and new messages, time to beat the dead horse.



I think this is not quite fair as GWM Post 16 did not really have many 'underperform'-esque feats, he seemed to handle himself quite well with literally everyone. Even the final fight against YG, was anything that happened really underperformance? (No commentary on the leveling itself, more the rationale against his leveling)



This is quite strange since there are many characters that don't even appear that are rated based on speculation in the list. At the very least, with Post 16 HIS, we can use some novel-points to make some speculative level (even if rating with some buffer like 83-90). It seems reasonable to me for him to have a speculative level considering more discussion about that level happens than probably all the combined speculative characters on the list.

Some novel points:

- Pre 16 strength and ease at which he won with it
- YG's confidence in not bringing it (e.g. he thought he got to a point where he can still beat GWM without HIS)
- YG's -then- regret for not bringing it (aka 'HIS' is still stronger than his strongest point with sad palms)
- YG's sad palms performance of <5 stances
- YG's happy palms performance of 200-300 stances to beat GWM

At a baseline, one can speculate the bare minimum Post 16 YG HIS level is marginally better than his Sad Palms and if one were to make an (in my opinion) educated guess, his HIS should be substantially better than Sad Palms (e.g. 4-5 levels higher). This matches the HIS pedigree too, considering it's an art that should be seen as >Great level.



This debate is overdone so won't really mention it but DFBB's performance ONE on ONE against LHC wasn't some ultra dominance like this forum likes to say. They exchanged blows several times (sorry if this is an exaggeration, it's been so many years). If DFBB was really so godlike, he would've one-stance'd owned LHC instead.

I don't know how much better FZ would've fared against DFBB.

Also, this is just my opinion but RWX's energy sucking ability does not seem as potent as DY. I don't know why but it seemed pretty crappy honestly, almost as bad as XLN's ice bed that will somehow level up your internal. This may be heresy but maybe his energy sucking ability is actually overhyped.

That said, I do believe LHC's Post-Novel potential is nigh limitless.



To be fair, I've read the past few pages and it seems a lot of vitriol is directed at one person only. I am not sure if there were warnings given but I've cherrypicked some messages I found to be unnecessary and/or passive aggressive.

"The YG fans for the past few pages have ruined this thread."
"Seriously, can someone please make this stop? They have this amazing ability to turn ANY thread into stupid YG hype thread. It's incredible really."
"Ever thought of discussing, rather than debating?"

As for the meta of why YG seems to be discussed so often, IMO, he seems one of the only characters on the list that is still misleveled.

Bravo @CancerLuna!

99% agreed with your analysis.
For, based on my analysis and details from ROCH, pre-16 YG was already 3 to 5 levels above normal Sad Palms YG and GJ.

Prime YG with the legendary black iron sword is something else, unimaginable like Dugu qiubai with the HIS and its simple but profound techniques in his 30s to roam JiangHu, unchallenged.

[FeilongZ]

My once a year visit to SPCNet and new messages, time to beat the dead horse.



I think this is not quite fair as GWM Post 16 did not really have many 'underperform'-esque feats, he seemed to handle himself quite well with literally everyone. Even the final fight against YG, was anything that happened really underperformance? (No commentary on the leveling itself, more the rationale against his leveling)



This is quite strange since there are many characters that don't even appear that are rated based on speculation in the list. At the very least, with Post 16 HIS, we can use some novel-points to make some speculative level (even if rating with some buffer like 83-90). It seems reasonable to me for him to have a speculative level considering more discussion about that level happens than probably all the combined speculative characters on the list.

Some novel points:

- Pre 16 strength and ease at which he won with it
- YG's confidence in not bringing it (e.g. he thought he got to a point where he can still beat GWM without HIS)
- YG's -then- regret for not bringing it (aka 'HIS' is still stronger than his strongest point with sad palms)
- YG's sad palms performance of <5 stances
- YG's happy palms performance of 200-300 stances to beat GWM

At a baseline, one can speculate the bare minimum Post 16 YG HIS level is marginally better than his Sad Palms and if one were to make an (in my opinion) educated guess, his HIS should be substantially better than Sad Palms (e.g. 4-5 levels higher). This matches the HIS pedigree too, considering it's an art that should be seen as >Great level.



This debate is overdone so won't really mention it but DFBB's performance ONE on ONE against LHC wasn't some ultra dominance like this forum likes to say. They exchanged blows several times (sorry if this is an exaggeration, it's been so many years). If DFBB was really so godlike, he would've one-stance'd owned LHC instead.

I don't know how much better FZ would've fared against DFBB.

Also, this is just my opinion but RWX's energy sucking ability does not seem as potent as DY. I don't know why but it seemed pretty crappy honestly, almost as bad as XLN's ice bed that will somehow level up your internal. This may be heresy but maybe his energy sucking ability is actually overhyped.

That said, I do believe LHC's Post-Novel potential is nigh limitless.



To be fair, I've read the past few pages and it seems a lot of vitriol is directed at one person only. I am not sure if there were warnings given but I've cherrypicked some messages I found to be unnecessary and/or passive aggressive.

"The YG fans for the past few pages have ruined this thread."
"Seriously, can someone please make this stop? They have this amazing ability to turn ANY thread into stupid YG hype thread. It's incredible really."
"Ever thought of discussing, rather than debating?"

As for the meta of why YG seems to be discussed so often, IMO, he seems one of the only characters on the list that is still misleveled.

@CancerLuna, @Ken Cheng, @Athena, and everyone:

I did not regret supporting YG and the consequence was criticism of me for relentlessly discussing/debating regarding YG.
There are often times @WesternEccentric and I got carried away and debate about YG vs another character on the wrong thread, and the result was the unfriendly posts against me/us.
-I was also criticized for persuading @WuxiaMaster to revise SPW characters, without even reading the novel myself.
After reading the novel, I realized that SPW was a masterpiece from Jin Yong with an intriguing story, and I gained a new appreciation for its characters.

Consequently, I took a 7 months hiatus from the SPCNET forum due to the criticisms here.

@Athena reached out to me on two occasions to persuade me to keep doing what I love, which is discussing about YG/Wuxia fiction.

These past months, I have found a new place at @Ken Cheng Wuxia forum on Facebook.

I invite everyone here to join us at this forum.
-Currently, we are revising and adding new level rankings to WuxiaMaster Ultimate ranking at Ken's Facebook forum.

Sincerely,
FeilongZ (Tu Hu)

[Western Eccentric]

I like the chart as it presently stands. While it won't satisfy absolutely everybody (it never does), it does reflect the general consensus.

Well I would use Mijue as a "analogy" which Mijue only considered equal with Dragon King if she unarmed with Heaven Sword so why we not use the same method to YG which considered "equal" to GJ/XF in hand to hand..

[FeilongZ]

Well I would use Mijue as a "analogy" which Mijue only considered equal with Dragon King if she unarmed with Heaven Sword so why we not use the same method to YG which considered "equal" to GJ/XF in hand to hand..

Totally agreed 👍

[Western Eccentric]

We almost agree with it..

Mijue > Dragon King (with Heaven Sword)
Mijue ~ Dragon King (without Heaven Sword)

So why we don't use the same method to HIS YG

[Ken Cheng]

We almost agree with it..

Mijue > Dragon King (with Heaven Sword)
Mijue ~ Dragon King (without Heaven Sword)

So why we don't use the same method to HIS YG

Then it becomes about the weapon and not the wielder. Using this logic, any combatant of comparable ability will achieve similar results with such a weapon at hand. No dice.

[Western Eccentric]

Then it becomes about the weapon and not the wielder. Using this logic, any combatant of comparable ability will achieve similar results with such a weapon at hand. No dice.

Ok Ken what about it both of them (Mijue and Dragon King) armed with Heaven Sword then who you think come as the winner between them or YG and GJ use HIS which better between them..

[Ken Cheng]

Ok Ken what about it both of them (Mijue and Dragon King) armed with Heaven Sword then who you think come as the winner between them or YG and GJ use HIS which better between them..

In both cases, mutual deaths. With such high-level fighters going all out using such deadly weapons, I cannot see any scenario in which any of them walk away alive.

[Western Eccentric]

In Heaven Sword case you might be right but not for HIS since you cannot win or kill your opponent especially someone as strong as you only by using "sword" since HIS is not sharp at all I mean can you override Rossi or Marquez only by your "vehicle"..

[Western Eccentric]

Sorry I mean can we beat Rossi in riding only because we use the same motor with him..

[Ken Cheng]

In Heaven Sword case you might be right but not for HIS since you cannot win or kill your opponent especially someone as strong as you only by using "sword" since HIS is not sharp at all I mean can you override Rossi or Marquez only by your "vehicle"..

It's more of a battering weapon than a slashing/impaling one (though you could possibly use it in that manner if you know what you're doing and have adequate power). I think of it as a heavy club that can also cut under the right circumstances.

[Western Eccentric]

You might be right Ken but YG is not that dumb if he know he fight against GJ which as powerful as him he wouldn't use his "power" but mostly his superior "technique" (in swordmanship) same with Rossi he would not only use "raw speed" to beat us in riding but also his "technique" (in riding)..

[Western Eccentric]

The Heavy Iron Sword is not special anymore just because you could easily use/wield it and beat your enemy unless you realize the secret behind it..

[Ken Cheng]

The Heavy Iron Sword is not special anymore just because you could easily use/wield it and beat your enemy unless you realize the secret behind it..

But I submit that any Greats-level martial artist has the knowledge and experience to figure that secret out. Yeung Gor was smart and talented enough to figure it out, but I doubt that people such as East Heretic, South Emperor, Chow Bak Tung, and Gwok Jing wouldn't be able to do the same if they had the opportunity. Having mastered the 9 Yum Jen Ging, Gwok Jing's insights into martial arts philosophy were not weak or shallow. Do you really think that given the opportunity, he really wouldn't be able to figure out how to make it work?

[Western Eccentric]

But I submit that any Greats-level martial artist has the knowledge and experience to figure that secret out. Yeung Gor was smart and talented enough to figure it out, but I doubt that people such as East Heretic, South Emperor, Chow Bak Tung, and Gwok Jing wouldn't be able to do the same if they had the opportunity. Having mastered the 9 Yum Jen Ging, Gwok Jing's insights into martial arts philosophy were not weak or shallow. Do you really think that given the opportunity, he really wouldn't be able to figure out how to make it work?

But keep in mind GJ swordplay skills as well as his swordplay understanding is not at YG level I mean the one YG clearly superior to GJ is in terms of "swordplay"/weapon (not always because HIS) even JY said GJ swordplay skills is about 70% for "defense" and only 30% for "attack" which mean YG understanding in hand to hand and weaponry (as well as creativity) far greater than GJ that why he could figure out HIS philosophy by himself..

[Western Eccentric]

But keep in mind GJ swordplay skills as well as his swordplay understanding is not at YG level I mean the one YG clearly superior to GJ is in terms of "swordplay"/weapon (not always because HIS) even JY said GJ swordplay skills is about 70% for "defense" and only 30% for "attack" which mean YG understanding in hand to hand and weaponry (as well as creativity) far greater than GJ that why he could figure out HIS philosophy by himself..

Also GJ figure out HIS secret mostly "speculation" Ken which mean he either can or not but YG we know he can😁😁😁😁

[Ken Cheng]

Also GJ figure out HIS secret mostly "speculation" Ken which mean he either can or not but YG we know he can😁😁😁😁

Yeung Gor did, and Gwok Jing likely can. Heavy Iron Sword Technique has affinity with Hong Lung 18 Palms: both are built on a similar philosophy of attacking with overwhelming force. At some point, we know that Yeung Gor gave Gwok Jing the Heavy Iron Sword (which would eventually be reforged into the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre). It wouldn't surprise me that Yeung Gor began explaining how it worked to Gwok Jing, only for Gwok Jing to say, "You mean like Hong Lung 18 Palms? Gor-yee, what you said closely echoes what my teacher Hung 7 Gung taught me about the Hong Lung Palms many years ago. The philosophy is similar, except one is delivered via this heavy blade, and the other is delivered through the force of palms."

[Western Eccentric]

Haha we assume them in "serious" fight Ken I don't think Mijue would "explain" Emei Swordplay to Dragon King before their duel..

[Western Eccentric]

Now I'am confident that Post-16 HIS YG should be at Lv 85 still strong enough to rivalled DY or Xiaoyao Elders but he would loose against them..

[FeilongZ]

Now I'am confident that Post-16 HIS YG should be at Lv 85 still strong enough to rivalled DY or Xiaoyao Elders but he would loose against them..

OK, sounds reasonable.

How would Dugu qiubai with the HIS (30s, before the age of 40) when he roamed JiangHu, unchallenged fare against DY/XZ/XY Elders?