Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[Ken Cheng]

As far as Yeung Gor goes, I believe he gained approximately 20 points in the immediate aftermath of acquiring the Heavy Iron Sword. Beginning at Level 44, he gained +5 simply for having the weapon, +10 for the additional inner power from the snake organs, and +5 for the new techniques he developed for using the Heavy Iron Sword, bringing him to a respectable Level 64 during that period.

[FeilongZ]

To Ken:
The HIS is not just a special weapon.
It comes with the ingenuity of DGKB techniques. Therefore, it will further improve someone of even at Level 80+ by adding 5+ to 10+ to his/her overall level.

The reasoning for my ranking of Post-16 Yang Guo with HIS to Level 85+ is that his internal improved tremendously during the 16-year interlude compared to pre-16 YG with HIS.

[Ken Cheng]

To Ken:
The HIS is not just a special weapon.
It comes with the ingenuity of DGKB techniques. Therefore, it will further improve someone of even at Level 80+ by adding 5+ to 10+ to his/her overall level.

That's a one-time gain. The person gains it upon acquiring the sword and technique. It's not self-perpetuating or exponential for all eternity. Like everything else, the Law of Diminishing Returns applies.

The reasoning for my ranking of Post-16 Yang Guo with HIS to Level 85+ is that his internal improved tremendously
during the 16-year interlude compared to pre-16 YG with HIS.

That owes to Yeung Gor's personal work on his martial arts during that time period, in which he consolidated all of his previous techniques into a new personal technique (Sad Palms). It had some Ha Mo Gung (from Au Yeung Fung), some Cheun Jen Sect techniques, some Ancient Tomb Sect techniques, a little bit of 9 Yum Jen Ging, a little bit of Peach Blossom Island techniques, and yes, some of what he derived from Heavy Iron Sword. Time and work accelerated him to Level 80 (which is pretty much the ceiling for CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats) faster than anyone had previously reached that level (ignoring DGSD, which is a different kind of creature altogether).

[Western Eccentric]

Yeeep Lv 80 is the highest level Condor Greats to reach and among them only GJ and YG ever achieved that..

[FeilongZ]

To Ken:
How did Pre-16 YG convincingly defeated Qiu Qian Ren, who is Level 72 and would have defeated also defeated Jinlun Fawang (Level 70) in a similar fashion if the severely Xiaolongnu wasn't on his back.
The full power and techniqies of the HIS would be released in a normal situation.

Jin Yong explicitly stated that Yideng (Level 75) at his best could only defeat Qiu Qian Ren by half a stance.

So how was pre-16 YG with the HIS is only at Level 64?

[Western Eccentric]

To Ken:
How did Pre-16 YG convincingly defeated Qiu Qian Ren, who is Level 72 and would have defeated also defeated Jinlun Fawang (Level 70) in a similar fashion if the severely Xiaolongnu wasn't on his back.
The full power and techniqies of the HIS would be released in a normal situation.

Jin Yong explicitly stated that Yideng (Level 75) at his best could only defeat Qiu Qian Ren by half a stance.

So how was pre-16 YG with the HIS is only at Level 64?

It's due YD not good in hand to hand combat since he don't have special palm skill like 18 Dragon Palm but if H7G or OYF fought QQR at that time QQR would beaten easily under 300 moves by H7G/OYF..

[FeilongZ]

I personally think DGKB arts: HIS, wooden sword, no sword stage is at least one tier to several tiers above all arts including all Greats' arts, Taijiquan (Zhang Sanfeng), Sad Palms, Jiuyin Zhenjing/ Jiuyang Zhenjing (9Yin/9Yang).
1 tier = 10 levels difference.

[Western Eccentric]

I personally think DGKB arts: HIS, wooden sword, no sword stage is at least one tier to several tiers above all arts including all Greats' arts, Taijiquan (Zhang Sanfeng), Sad Palms, Jiuyin Zhenjing/ Jiuyang Zhenjing (9Yin/9Yang).
1 tier = 10 levels difference.

Agree but don't forget YG internal art only on par with Greats and he also only have one arm so in the end the difference between them only 3-5 point at best..

[FeilongZ]

To Western Eccentric:
I think no one from the Condor Trilogy could beat a prime QQR within 300 stances, except YG and maybe, Guo Jing, ZBT, and Zhang Sanfeng.

[Ken Cheng]

To Ken:
How did Pre-16 YG convincingly defeated Qiu Qian Ren who is Level 72

We already covered this. Yeung Gor fought intelligently, while Kau Cheen Yan, in the middle of an episode of insanity, was not making the best combat judgments. Yeung Gor was a much smarter individual than Kau Cheen Yan anyway, and if you add in the fact that KCY wasn't in his right mind at that moment, it wasn't too hard for Yeung Gor to seize the advantage.

You have to look beyond the levels and consider context. We've seen weaker fighters defeat stronger fighters on numerous occasions depending on the conditions. Context matters.

... and would have defeated also defeated Jinlun Fawang (Level 70) in a similar fashion if the severely Xiaolongnu wasn't on his back.

...but you see, when victory came, it came from a well-placed Honeybee Needle from Little Dragon Girl right between the Golden Wheel Monk's eyes. Yeung Gor and the Golden Wheel Monk were pushing back and forth and it looked like the monk was about to gain the upper hand, but the sudden Honeybee Needle attack put the monk down for the count.

Jin Yong explicitly stated that Yideng (Level 75) at his best could only defeat Qiu Qian Ren by half a stance.

1 Deng was the oldest of the surviving elder Greats. I believe that he could have been as many as fifteen (or more) years older than the youngest Great, Wong Yerk See. For that reason, I believe that 1 Deng's martial arts were already on a decline curve due to his advanced age. Moreover, he hadn't seen any practical combat in decades by that point, whereas all the other Greats had done some fighting during the ROCH years.

So how was pre-16 YG with the HIS is only at Level 64?

That's how. Level 64 at age twenty is pretty damn impressive already. None of the elder Greats could claim Level 64 when they were twenty.

[Ken Cheng]

To Western Eccentric:
I think no one from the Condor Trilogy could beat a prime QQR within 300 stances, except YG and maybe, Guo Jing, ZBT, and Zhang Sanfeng.

500+, I would say. Kau Cheen Yan was around 98% of a Great himself.

[Western Eccentric]

To Western Eccentric:
I think no one from the Condor Trilogy could beat a prime QQR within 300 stances, except YG and maybe, Guo Jing, ZBT, and Zhang Sanfeng.

It's due YG use HIS and QQR old age not because YG overall skill far better than QQR..

[Western Eccentric]

500+, I would say. Kau Cheen Yan was around 98% of a Great himself.

QQR only 95% Greats at best IMHO except ZBT..

[Ken Cheng]

It's due YG use HIS and QQR old age not because YG overall skill far better than QQR..

...and Yeung Gor being very resourceful and intelligent as a fighter. He can beat opponents stronger than him by outsmarting them, as long as the gap isn't too great.

[FeilongZ]

To Ken:
Thanks for the great insights.
However, I firmly disagree with your level of pre-16 YG with the HIS.

When Jin Yong introduced DGKB and his sword arts, I think he inadvertently made a mockery out of (or degraded) the Greats' arts, including 9 Yin by making YG looked so powerful after one month of training with the HIS.
Jin Yong probably wanted to write about something exciting to engage the readers.

[Western Eccentric]

To Ken:
Thanks for the great insights.
However, I firmly disagree with your level of pre-16 YG with the HIS.

When Jin Yong introduced DGKB and his sword arts, I think he inadvertently made a mockery out of (or degraded) the Greats' arts, including 9 Yin by making YG looked so powerful after one month of training with the HIS.
Jin Yong probably wanted to write about something exciting to engage the readers.

Agree about it but still YG overall skill at that time slightly behind Greats especially ZBT and GJ IMHO so Lv 74 it's more reasonable for him..

[Ken Cheng]

When Jin Yong introduced DGKB and his sword arts, I think he inadvertently made a mockery out of (or degraded) the Greats' arts, including 9 Yin by making YG looked so powerful after one month of training with the HIS.
Jin Yong probably wanted to write about something exciting to engage the readers.

Yeah, I've never cared for the Dook Goo Kau Bai concept. It was all a bit deus ex machina for me. From the beginning of LOCH through three quarters of ROCH, Jin Yong presented this sensible, graduated progressive scale. Then, he introduces DGKB out of nowhere and it just jacked up the whole system.

[Western Eccentric]

Yeah, I've never cared for the Dook Goo Kau Bai concept. It was all a bit deus ex machina for me. From the beginning of LOCH through three quarters of ROCH, Jin Yong presented this sensible, graduated progressive scale. Then, he introduces DGKB out of nowhere and it just jacked up the whole system.

Agree about it..

[_Kenny_]

WuxiaMaster.
Please update Yang Guo ranking with heavy iron sword.
Pre-16 YG with HIS beat Qiu Qian Ren convincingly in less than 200 stances.
The divine condor could not withstand more than 3 stances of YG wooden sword at the conclusion of his 6-year ocean wave training.

Post-16 YG with HIS should be level 85+.

I think he would beat DFBB with the HIS.

First page of the thread said the rankings aren't on speculations. YG never used the HIS post 16 years.

[FeilongZ]

To Kenny:
I'm OK with WuxiaMaster putting
Post-16 YG with HIS at Level 85+
as with what his did with some characters in the ranking by putting (Speculation).