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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #1421
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    He was disarmed by the Persian mercenaries?
    Also forgot to point out that the Persian warriors were carrying weapons (the mini tablets that contained the remaining verses of the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee) that were made of a special metal that even the Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber couldn't cleave through. It was a unique occasion when the Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber encountered a substance so dense and hard that even they couldn't penetrate it. It must have been wuxia vibranium or admantium.

  2. #1422
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    Great insight Ken.
    I think YG would easily defeat those Persians with sad palms or with HIS (overwhelming force and
    unpredictableness of the techniques).

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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Did Zhang Wuji level increased when he was using the Dragon Saber?
    He was disarmed by the Persian mercenaries?
    Not everyone can use the HIS efficiently without mastering its sword arts.
    Nope..
    XX also have Dragon Sabre but he still couldn't beat Dragon King (Xiao Zhao's mom) so have a "special weapon" would be "useless" if you don't know how to use it "properly" to a fullest strength

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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Great insight Ken.
    I think YG would easily defeat those Persians with sad palms or with HIS (overwhelming force and
    unpredictableness of the techniques).
    Not only Persian Envoy but I think YG would be easily "destroy" all of Wuji enemies in HSDS with or without HIS not because he is stronger than Wuji (in terms of martial arts) but due the fact he is more better as a fighter than the "clumsy" Wuji..

  5. #1425
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Still not feeling it, but more nuanced and reasonable. I think that in the fights against East Heretic Wong Yerk See, Chow Bak Tung, and the Golden Wheel Monk, Yeung Gor's level would be 80...full-strength Sad Palms. Anybody would get +1 or +2 points to his/her natural level simply by being armed with the Heavy Iron Sword.
    Thanks..
    Just my humble opinion

  6. #1426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Nope..
    XX also have Dragon Sabre but he still couldn't beat Dragon King (Xiao Zhao's mom) so have a "special weapon" would be "useless" if you don't know how to use it "properly" to a fullest strength
    Tse Tsun was blind and had not fought anybody for twenty years at that point. Moreover, he had no desire to harm Granny Golden Flower even if he could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Not only Persian Envoy but I think YG would be easily "destroy" all of Wuji enemies in HSDS with or without HIS not because he is stronger than Wuji (in terms of martial arts) but due the fact he is more better as a fighter than the "clumsy" Wuji..
    Cheung Mo Gei had three handicaps when fighting those Persians: first, they were using weapons that were among the very few in the world that could resist strikes from the Heaven Sword or the Dragon Saber. Second, they used a strange Persian technique that could only be countered by someone with a complete understanding of the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee (which CMG would soon acquire). Third, Cheung Mo Gei, in addition to being too nice for his own good as usual, knew that these Persians were Ming Cult members and he didn't want to aggravate relations between the Persian and Chinese Ming Cults. If CMG were completely uninhibited, we would probably see different results.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Tse Tsun was blind and had not fought anybody for twenty years at that point. Moreover, he had no desire to harm Granny Golden Flower even if he could.



    Cheung Mo Gei had three handicaps when fighting those Persians: first, they were using weapons that were among the very few in the world that could resist strikes from the Heaven Sword or the Dragon Saber. Second, they used a strange Persian technique that could only be countered by someone with a complete understanding of the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee (which CMG would soon acquire). Third, Cheung Mo Gei, in addition to being too nice for his own good as usual, knew that these Persians were Ming Cult members and he didn't want to aggravate relations between the Persian and Chinese Ming Cults. If CMG were completely uninhibited, we would probably see different results.
    But the novel also said though he is blind his skill still "improve" during 20 years time skip also Wuji once note XX skill on par with his grandfather Eagle King..

  8. #1428
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    I think Cheung Mo Gei probably had more raw inner power than any of the Greats from L/ROCH (but not by a whole lot...maybe at most 10% more), but he tends to perform badly in many of his fights because he's not a killer or warrior by nature (he's a physician who can fight). Moreover, Cheung Mo Gei's matchups tend to be against opponents with whom he has some kind of personal or political consideration to factor in.

    Whom did Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor fight in most of their adventures? Straight up bad guys and enemies. They fought people such as Mui Chiu Fung, the Jin flunkies, Au Yeung Hak, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, Kau Cheen Yan, Lee Mok Sau, Golden Wheel Monk, the Mongol flunkies, Gung Sheun Tze, etc. These were people whom Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor had no personal or political reasons to go easy against; they were flat out enemies against whom they could always fight to kill without any qualms or reservations.

    Whom did Cheung Mo Gei often fight? Against people with whom he had personal or political reasons to hold back. He "lost" to Chow Chi Yerk because he still felt affection for her and guilt that he had abandoned her during their wedding. He didn't fight full tilt against the Persian guardians because they were fellow Ming Cult members. He didn't fight all-out against the three Shaolin Dao-generation elders because he respected them as wulin elders and good people, and he really didn't want to aggravate relations between the Ming Cult and Shaolin after all the work he and his Ming Cult brothers had put in to improve relations between the Ming Cult and mainstream orthodox wulin the past few years. Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor seldom had to deal with these concerns: they never had to fight against Wong Yung or Little Dragon Girl, or against the Gong Nam 7 Freaks or North Beggar Hung 7 Gung...people whom they loved and respected or had political reasons (because neither Gwok Jing nor Yeung Gor led important wulin organizations) to avoid fighting/harming.

    Finally, it is my belief that Jin Yong never wanted to make the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats too far apart from each other in martial arts. The elder generation Greats remained reliably on par with each other for decades. For the younger, protagonist heroes, nobody really broke through the Level 80 ceiling, but here's how Jin Yong rather cleverly let each generation surpass the last:

    The original Greats approached (but came up slightly short of) Level 80 when they were old men well past their sixties.

    Gwok Jing reached Level 80 when he was a middle-aged man in this forties or fifties.

    Yeung Gor reached Level 80 when he was still a fairly young man in his mid-to-late thirties.

    Cheung Mo Gei reached Level 80 when he was still a very young man in his early to mid-twenties.

    So if you want to reckon it this way, with each succeeding generation being better than the last by reaching Level 80 earlier in life, I'll support you there. I don't, however, support any proposition that any CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Great was head and shoulders ahead of the rest.

  9. #1429
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    But the novel also said though he is blind his skill still "improve" during 20 years time skip also Wuji once note XX skill on par with his grandfather Eagle King..
    All four Ming Cult Guardian Lords were around on par with each other. Not sure how Tse Tsun would improve during twenty years living on an isolated island with no one to spar against after Cheung Chui San and Yan So So departed and becoming blind.

  10. #1430
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think Cheung Mo Gei probably had more raw inner power than any of the Greats from L/ROCH (but not by a whole lot...maybe at most 10% more), but he tends to perform badly in many of his fights because he's not a killer or warrior by nature (he's a physician who can fight). Moreover, Cheung Mo Gei's matchups tends to be against opponents with whom he has some kind of personal or political consideration to factor in.

    Whom did Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor fight in most of their adventures? Straight up bad guys and enemies. They fought people such as Mui Chiu Fung, the Jin flunkies, Au Yeung Hak, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, Kau Cheen Yan, Lee Mok Sau, Golden Wheel Monk, the Mongol flunkies, Gung Sheun Tze, etc. These were people whom Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor had no personal or political reasons to go easy against; they were flat out enemies against whom they could always fight against to kill without any qualms.

    Whom did Cheung Mo Gei often fight? People against whom there were personal or political reasons he had to hold back. He "lost" to Chow Chi Yerk because he still felt affection for her and guilt that he had abandoned her during their wedding. He didn't fight full tilt against the Persian mercenaries because they were fellow Ming Cult members. He didn't fight all-out against the three Shaolin Dao-generation elders because he respected them as wulin elders and good people, and he really didn't want to aggravate relations between the Ming Cult and Shaolin after all the work he and his Ming Cult brothers had put in to improve relations between the Ming Cult and mainstream orthodox wulin the past few years. Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor seldom had to deal with these concerns: they never had to fight against Wong Yung or Little Dragon Girl, or against the Gong Nam 7 Freaks or North Beggar Hung 7 Gung...people whom they loved and respected or had political reasons (because neither Gwok Jing nor Yeung Gor led important wulin organizations) to avoid fighting/harming.

    Finally, it is my belief that Jin Yong never wanted to make the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats too far apart from each other in martial arts. The elder generation Greats remained reliably on par with each other for decades. For the younger, protagonist heroes, nobody really broke through the Level 80 ceiling, but here's how Jin Yong rather cleverly let each generation surpass the last:

    The original Greats reached Level 80 when they were old men well past their sixties.

    Gwok Jing reached Level 80 when he was a middle-aged man in this forties or fifties.

    Yeung Gor reached Level 80 when he was still a fairly young man in his mid-to-late thirties.

    Cheung Mo Gei reached Level 80 when he was still a very young man in his early to mid-twenties.

    So if you want to reckon it this way, with each succeeding generation being better than the last by reaching Level 80 earlier in life, I'll support you there. I don't, however, support any proposition that any CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Great was head and shoulders ahead of the rest.
    TBH I highly doubt beside GJ/YG no one from Condor Greats ever reach Lv 80 (on par with XF/DGSD Elites)..

  11. #1431
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    TBH I highly doubt beside GJ/YG no one from Condor Greats ever reach Lv 80 (on par with XF/DGSD Elites)..
    I think Gwok Jing, Yeung Gor, and possibly Cheung Mo Gei reached Kiu Fung's level, but not the level of Deun Yu or Hui Juk. Cheung Mo Gei has a tendency to fight under his potential (for reasons explained above), but I do believe he's capable of Level 80. His inner power might only be surpassed by people of Deun Yu's level or higher.

  12. #1432
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    Based on power wise is indeed Wuji deserve at Lv 80 but based on "performance" he is below from that level so Wuji actual level might be 77 or 78 at best..

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    Think think Zhang Wuji is slightly overrated/over-ranked.
    He has the potential to be at level 77 (both internal and martial arts).

    However, base on his inexperience in fighting Great-level opponents and his clumsy fighting records, he should be rated at best level 72 with Qiu Qian Ren.

    I don't see Wuji lasts more than 200 stances against YG with HIS or even 50 stances or less with YG Sad Palms due to it weirdness factors.

  14. #1434
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Think think Zhang Wuji is slightly overrated/over-ranked.
    He has the potential to be at level 77 (both internal and martial arts).

    However, base on his inexperience in fighting Great-level opponents and his clumsy fighting records, he should be rated at best level 72 with Qiu Qian Ren.

    I don't see Wuji lasts more than 200 stances against YG with HIS or even 50 stances or less with YG Sad Palms due to it weirdness factors.
    Agree YG could beat him with or without HIS/Sad Palm within 100-200 stances..

  15. #1435
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Think think Zhang Wuji is slightly overrated/over-ranked.
    He has the potential to be at level 77 (both internal and martial arts).

    However, base on his inexperience in fighting Great-level opponents and his clumsy fighting records, he should be rated at best level 72 with Qiu Qian Ren.

    I don't see Wuji lasts more than 200 stances against YG with HIS or even 50 stances or less with YG Sad Palms due to it weirdness factors.
    Wonder what the effect of Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee would be on Sad Palms. It'd be interesting, to say the least.

  16. #1436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think Cheung Mo Gei probably had more raw inner power than any of the Greats from L/ROCH (but not by a whole lot...maybe at most 10% more), but he tends to perform badly in many of his fights because he's not a killer or warrior by nature (he's a physician who can fight). Moreover, Cheung Mo Gei's matchups tend to be against opponents with whom he has some kind of personal or political consideration to factor in.

    Whom did Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor fight in most of their adventures? Straight up bad guys and enemies. They fought people such as Mui Chiu Fung, the Jin flunkies, Au Yeung Hak, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, Kau Cheen Yan, Lee Mok Sau, Golden Wheel Monk, the Mongol flunkies, Gung Sheun Tze, etc. These were people whom Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor had no personal or political reasons to go easy against; they were flat out enemies against whom they could always fight to kill without any qualms or reservations.

    Whom did Cheung Mo Gei often fight? Against people with whom he had personal or political reasons to hold back. He "lost" to Chow Chi Yerk because he still felt affection for her and guilt that he had abandoned her during their wedding. He didn't fight full tilt against the Persian guardians because they were fellow Ming Cult members. He didn't fight all-out against the three Shaolin Dao-generation elders because he respected them as wulin elders and good people, and he really didn't want to aggravate relations between the Ming Cult and Shaolin after all the work he and his Ming Cult brothers had put in to improve relations between the Ming Cult and mainstream orthodox wulin the past few years. Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor seldom had to deal with these concerns: they never had to fight against Wong Yung or Little Dragon Girl, or against the Gong Nam 7 Freaks or North Beggar Hung 7 Gung...people whom they loved and respected or had political reasons (because neither Gwok Jing nor Yeung Gor led important wulin organizations) to avoid fighting/harming.

    Finally, it is my belief that Jin Yong never wanted to make the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats too far apart from each other in martial arts. The elder generation Greats remained reliably on par with each other for decades. For the younger, protagonist heroes, nobody really broke through the Level 80 ceiling, but here's how Jin Yong rather cleverly let each generation surpass the last:

    The original Greats approached (but came up slightly short of) Level 80 when they were old men well past their sixties.

    Gwok Jing reached Level 80 when he was a middle-aged man in this forties or fifties.

    Yeung Gor reached Level 80 when he was still a fairly young man in his mid-to-late thirties.

    Cheung Mo Gei reached Level 80 when he was still a very young man in his early to mid-twenties.

    So if you want to reckon it this way, with each succeeding generation being better than the last by reaching Level 80 earlier in life, I'll support you there. I don't, however, support any proposition that any CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Great was head and shoulders ahead of the rest.
    Yeah I agree with this. The only real enemy that ZWJ had was the Xuanming Elders and he straight up owned them, even from just the fight at after Wudang. During their final fight, not only did he beat them easily, his level was so much higher that he made them believe they hit each other when in fact, it was just his QKDNY. At this point, he's able to toy with the Xuanming Elders the way ZSF would.

    I would rate ZWJ's progression like this.

    55 out of the cave (9Yang), internals at already at 75, on par with Guo Jing at beginning of ROCH
    60 after 9Yang + the bag, internals already at 80, on par with GJ and YG at their peak (ZSF confirmed this)
    68 after QKDNY & Guangming Peak fight
    72 after learning Taiji with ZSF
    75 after some extra real fight experience, especially against weird formations like that of the 3 Persians
    80 after the fight against the 3 monks.

    At this point, the only thing holding him back was his benevolent nature, not his fighting experience anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    Yeah I agree with this. The only real enemy that ZWJ had was the Xuanming Elders and he straight up owned them, even from just the fight at after Wudang. During their final fight, not only did he beat them easily, his level was so much higher that he made them believe they hit each other when in fact, it was just his QKDNY. At this point, he's able to toy with the Xuanming Elders the way ZSF would.

    I would rate ZWJ's progression like this.

    55 out of the cave (9Yang), internals at already at 75, on par with Guo Jing at beginning of ROCH
    60 after 9Yang + the bag, internals already at 80, on par with GJ and YG at their peak (ZSF confirmed this)
    68 after QKDNY & Guangming Peak fight
    72 after learning Taiji with ZSF
    75 after some extra real fight experience, especially against weird formations like that of the 3 Persians
    80 after the fight against the 3 monks.

    At this point, the only thing holding him back was his benevolent nature, not his fighting experience anymore.
    Wow pre Shaolin Wuji at Lv 75 and post Shaolin Wuji Lv 80 impressive adding level not because new skill but due to "new" experience in short time😆😆😆😆

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    Yang Guo level development:
    Pre-HIS: Level 45

    Pre-16 HIS: Level 80

    Six years after ocean wave training: Level 85 with HIS (great internal improvement and some technique improvement)

    After developing Sad Palms: Level 82 without HIS (great power and weird techniques)

    Post-16 against Jinlin Fawang when YG releases full-powered Sad Palms: Level 85 without HIS.

    Post-16 HIS: Level 85+

    Base on my analysis and humble opinion,
    The the Heavy Iron Sword and its techniques will increase YG overall power 5+ to 10+ from his base power (excluding the time when he first mastered the HIS techniques because he went from Level 45 to Level 80, wow, DGKB is a genius in martial arts).

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    While I think we have seen YG peak performance with Sad Palms against Jinlun Fawang, we have not seen post-16 YG with the Heavy Iron Sword.

    I reckon that peak YG with HIS would defeat anyone from the Level 80 and Level 90 tiers in a duel.
    Except for DGKB himself and the Sweeper monk, of course
    I would not make assumptions against SM because Ken and the members will mock and roast me.

  20. #1440
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    While I think we have seen YG peak performance with Sad Palms against Jinlun Fawang, we have not seen post-16 YG with the Heavy Iron Sword.

    I reckon that peak YG with HIS would defeat anyone from the Level 80 and Level 90 tiers in a duel.
    Except for DGKB himself and the Sweeper monk, of course
    I would not make assumptions against SM because Ken and the members will mock and roast me.
    Here's how I see special weapons such as the Heavy Iron Sword and its derivatives, the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre.

    If the user is comparatively weak, then the gains from using the weapon will be significant. This was most notable during the first month or two that Yeung Gor acquired the Heavy Iron Sword and how assorted mid-tier martial artists in HSDS gained a significant advantage when armed with either the Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber.

    As a fighter ascends towards the Greats level, however, the returns from using such a weapon diminish. Whereas a mid-tier combatant might gain a +5 advantage simply by using the weapon, for someone who is already at Greats level, the advantage would be only +1 or +2 at most.

    Picture this in superhero terms. If you're Captain America, then having your indestructible shield at hand greatly improves your combat results. If you are already Superman, however, then having the shield...helps, but not nearly as much. You're already super, so the shield only yields a very slight advantage.

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