View Poll Results: So did Zhang Wuji surpassed Zhang Sanfeng in terms of martial arts?

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Thread: So did Zhang Wuji surpassed Zhang Sanfeng in terms of martial arts?

  1. #41
    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    I would vote YG or GJ only because of more experience on their parts.

    That's not how it is working.... (plus, your scale is wrong. Fan Yiao is ~ 20% of a Great. Tyson compared to regular you or me is defitnitely greater than that)It's more like you (who is 20% of Tyson) punching me 10 times separetly. Each time, I would use QKDLY to redirect and store that energy. In the end, I would store 10 of those. I would then make them into one and reflect it all back you. In this case it is quantity over quality where 10 20% Tyson punches combined into one is superior to a 100% Tyson punch. THAT is how it works.

    i know what you mean but I just think that one blow with raw power from YG or GJ would totally overwhelm ZWJ...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus
    i know what you mean but I just think that one blow with raw power from YG or GJ would totally overwhelm ZWJ...
    I disagree with that statement. If we're talking about 1 direct blow, then yes, it would be sufficient to knock ZWJ out for the round. That case was likely represented when ZWJ needed 2 hours to recover after he got hit by reflecting 100% of his own palm energy+ZZR's palm energy at himself. Similiarly, GJ also took a direct hit from JLFW during the Mongolian Battle that knocked GJ out of the round.(but ZWJ recovered at a faster rate which is likely because of his 9 Yang chi being more medical+more chi shielding than 9 Yin)

    However, under normal circumstances, it's not likely that ZWJ would take that kind of direct hit. Plus, I feel that ZWJ at the very least can DEFLECT YG or GJ's palm energy(not neccesary reflect though). MRB's internal who is ~ XF was able to use North Star Shift to deflect XF's palm energy.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  3. #43
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Would ZWJ have a better chance of winning if he engaged in a battle of endurance? If he just dogde around and deflected palm blasts and giving some back. Would his 9 Yang last longer than YG/GJ?
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  4. #44
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    ZWJ is THE MASTER of endurance combat. Any combat that is extended would always favor ZWJ more than any other fighter near his level. His Taichi is the the ultimate conservative Great art there is. Plus, there is Taichi breathing which gives extra endurance. His internal is as strong as any Greats. Any extended battle between any Great and ZWJ would always favor ZWJ, especially against the Original Old Greats who are in their 90s.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  5. #45
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Then I cant see why ZWJ wouldnt win against a 100+ years old Z3F. Back to the poll; wouldnt ZWJ have surpassed Z3F in terms of MA?
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  6. #46
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    Then I cant see why ZWJ wouldnt win against a 100+ years old Z3F.
    Because Zhang Sanfeng is a genius and he can create disadvantages for the young and inexperienced Zhang Wuji on the fly.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  7. #47
    Senior Member endo's Avatar
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    ^^^
    i call BS on the above statement.

    Z3F is a great martial artist...no doubt about that...but when two great level fighters are going at it...i don't think he can come up with something on the fly that can counter a great level attack.

    it took AYF 1 whole day to come up with something to counter H7G's last stance of his Dog Beating Stick and AYF is considered somewhat of a martial art's genius himself (he did reach great level without any lucky chances or reptilian/amphibian help)
    "my only fear of death is reincarnation...back into this life of strife" - 2pac

  8. #48
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    Zhang Sanfeng is the best martial artist in JY world, his understanding of martial arts is unrivaled. He created a technique which has no bounds other than martial arts understanding (Taiji). His inner power is very great although he does not use hacks or cheat programs like the "Carefree" Sect.

    It took OYF 1 day to break No Dogs Under Heaven. It would not been as hard for him to counter it. At the 2nd Mt. Hua sword tournament H7G used Dog Beating Stick to attack OYF, but without success and he lost his weapon. If all H7G had to do was use No Dogs Under Heaven or some other DBS technique (remember it took OYF a while to break the other techniques, too), he would have done it and won easily.

  9. #49
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by endo
    ^^^
    i call BS on the above statement.

    Z3F is a great martial artist...no doubt about that...but when two great level fighters are going at it...i don't think he can come up with something on the fly that can counter a great level attack.
    Not necessarily countering a move, more like creating opportunities for himself such that his opponent won't be able to utilize his full potential.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  10. #50
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    Clearly, ZWJ has the better arts than Z3F, but Z3F has a TREMENDOUS advantage in experience, understanding, and purity of internal.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  11. #51
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    till the end of HSDS, no. wuji still had not reached the level of purity of ZSF's inner power and was still lacking in the yin side of martial arts while ZSF had reached perfection in both the yin and yang sides.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  12. #52
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    Just because 10x weak attacks = 1 strong attack does not make it as lethal as that.

    Simple example
    ZWJ has 30 def and 100 atk. FY has 20 atk and 0 def.
    Because ZWJ has 10 more def points than FY has atk, the damage taken is 0.
    However, a true Great like ZWJ would have 100 atk power. Thus, when they attack him in full force, the 30 def only takes away 30 points of damage. Making him lose 70 hit points.

    Real life example
    Jabs in a boxing match will not KO an opponent as well as a powerful right hook.
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor
    Just because 10x weak attacks = 1 strong attack does not make it as lethal as that.

    Simple example
    ZWJ has 30 def and 100 atk. FY has 20 atk and 0 def.
    Because ZWJ has 10 more def points than FY has atk, the damage taken is 0.
    However, a true Great like ZWJ would have 100 atk power. Thus, when they attack him in full force, the 30 def only takes away 30 points of damage. Making him lose 70 hit points.

    Real life example
    Jabs in a boxing match will not KO an opponent as well as a powerful right hook.
    Wait a minute. I'm not 100% sure what you're saying here. We're not talking about 10 separate palm energies actually attackig ZWJ and 10 of them equal to killing ZWJ. We're talking about ZWJ storing 10 Fan Yiao palms (undissolved) and reflecting it back 10X the power of one of the original palms. So ZWJ would store 1 20 atk from Fan Yiao, so that would be 20 atk. After storing 10 of them, it would be 200 atk. Wouldn't that be 2X a Great 100 atk? If not, then why do you think not? The text did state that it is 10+ palms COMBINED INTO ONE PALM ENERGY or in the text-这是将对方十余掌的力道归并成为一掌拍出. Therefore I think the statement of 200 atk pt is valid. And besides, the damage said to be done was anything that I don't think one Great level fighter's palm energy can do to someone like Fan Yiao.

    I think you misundestood me. Look back at Post 31 to see what I was talking about. It's not ZWJ taking 10 separate palms individually and dissolving them. It's ZWJ taking 10 of them undissolved, combine, then reflect.
    Last edited by Whsie; 10-12-06 at 01:55 AM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  14. #54
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Storing these palm blasts require QKDY level 7 (and great inner power), but does it tap in ZWJ's energy reserve? In other words, does he get tired and week if he stores palm blasts. If not, then this skill is a HUUUUGE advantage againts any opponent.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  15. #55
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie

    I think you misundestood me. Look back at Post 31 to see what I was talking about. It's not ZWJ taking 10 separate palms individually and dissolving them. It's ZWJ taking 10 of them undissolved, combine, then reflect.
    Just because he can store 10 separate weak palms does not mean he can take one Great palm.

    If he can store 30 damage per attack, he would still suffer 70 damage to his hit points.
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardor
    Just because he can store 10 separate weak palms does not mean he can take one Great palm.

    If he can store 30 damage per attack, he would still suffer 70 damage to his hit points.
    Sigh.... you aren't even on the same page as I'm on. My purpose is saying that what ZWJ reflected back at Fan Yiao is likely 2X the power of a Great Level attack, that is ALL my purpose. I'm not talking about ZWJ being able to take a Great level attack or not.

    However, if we are to go to your case. I personally think a regular Great like GJ or YG would have defensive point of around 30 or so and ZWJ would likely be at 50 at least because his auto shield is exclusively for 9 Yang internal only. Plus, GX said what Jue Yuan achieved with his 9 Yang is unachievable for YG brother or her father. This suggests that 9 Yang's nature does have an auto shield that the other cultivations don't have.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  17. #57
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Wasnt it stated somewhere, by other than GX, that Jue Yuen has superior inner power, more than GJ and YG? Was it YG perhaps who commented that?
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  18. #58
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    I don't think it was commented anywhere than Jue Yuan had more internal than GJ or YG. In matter of fact, that famous quote from Chp 24 implied that Jue Yuan=GJ=YG in internal. However, Jue Yuan was able to achieve more with the internal on Xiao Xiang Zhi (which GX said that GJ or YG weren't able to do) because of 9 Yang's Auto Shield Defensive Nature which none of the other Greats pocessed. And that is why I would say in Ardor's case on defensive point and whatever, if a Great were to have a defensive point of 30 pt, then ZWJ would likely be at 50 defensive pt.

    Btw, this is the quote of GX knowing Jue Yuan's 9 Yang defensive superioty- 那日潇湘子打他一掌,他挺受一招,反而使潇湘子身受重伤,如此神功,便是爹爹和大哥哥也未必能够
    Last edited by Whsie; 10-12-06 at 03:06 AM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  19. #59
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    I don't think it was commented anywhere than Jue Yuan had more internal than GJ or YG. In matter of fact, that famous quote from Chp 24 implied that Jue Yuan=GJ=YG in internal. However, Jue Yuan was able to achieve more with the internal on Xiao Xiang Zhi (which GX said that GJ or YG weren't able to do) because of 9 Yang's Auto Shield Defensive Nature which none of the other Greats pocessed. And that is why I would say in Ardor's case on defensive point and whatever, if a Great were to have a defensive point of 30 pt, then ZWJ would likely be at 50 defensive pt.

    Btw, this is the quote of GX knowing Jue Yuan's 9 Yang defensive superioty- 那日潇湘子打他一掌,他挺受一招,反而使潇湘子身受重伤,如此神功,便是爹爹和大哥哥也未必能够
    Ok, but what is Xiao Xiang Zhi ?
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  20. #60
    Senior Member IcyFox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    Ok, but what is Xiao Xiang Zhi ?
    It's a person. He was one of the mercernaries hired by Kublai Khan to help in his conquest of the Song Empire. I think he first appeared in the Mongolian Camp where YG first met Kublai when he was still a Prince.

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