PJ's unofficial ranking of the Jin Yong universe

[PJ]

Unofficial Ranking version 2

DGSD Sweeper Monk 1000
DGSD Xuzhu 500
XKX Shi Potian (trance mode) 400
DGSD Wuyazi, Tianshan Tonglao, Li Qiushui 330
(ROCH/SPW) Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai 280
SPW Dongfang Bubai 280
DGSD Xiao Feng 255
DGSD Jiumozhi 255
(LOCH) Huang Shang 254
DGSD Murong Bo, Xiao Yuanshan 252.4
LOCH/ROCH Guo Jing 250
HSDS Zhang Sanfeng 245
ROCH Yang Guo (Unsad mode, one arm) 230
HSDS Zhang Wuji 229
LOCH/ROCH Zhou Botong 228
(LOCH/ROCH) Wang Chongyang 228
ROCH Golden Wheel Monk 226
LOCH/ROCH Huang Yaoshi 220
LOCH/ROCH Yideng 218
LOCH/ROCH Qiu Qianren 211
ROCH Lin Chaoying 200
(HSDS) Guo Xiang 200
LOCH/ROCH Hong Qigong 178.5
LOCH/ROCH Ouyang Feng 177.45
DGSD Xiao Yuanshan (30 years ago) 147
XKX Lord Long and Lord Mu 147
DGSD You Tanzhi 115.5
HSDS Reverend Kongjian 115.5
DGSD Elder Kurong 115.5
SPW Ren Woxing 110.25
SPW Feng Qingyang 110.25
SPW Abbot Fangzheng 110.25
ROCH Little Dragon Girl 105
SPW Priest Chongxu 99.75
DGSD Abbot Xuanci 95
SPW Linghu Chong 94.5
DGSD Duan Zhengming 84
DGSD Duan Yanqing 84
DGSD Ding Chunqiu 84
DGSD other Xuan generation monks 81.9
DGSD Abbot Benyin and his fellow monks 80.85
HSDS Duwei 80.85
XKX Zhang San and Li Si 78.75
(HSDS) Yang Dingtian 78.75
HSDS Dujie 78.75
HSDS Dunan 75.6
DGSD Yellow-eyebrowed Monk 73.5
HSDS Yellow-dressed Lady 73.5
(HSDS) He Zudao (beginning of HSDS) 73
DGSD Su Xinghe 68.25
HSDS Xuanming Elders 68.25
(DGSD) Former Beggar Union Leader Wang Jiantong 66.15
HSDS Eight-armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai 66
HSDS Cheng Kun 65.1
DGSD SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan 65
HSDS Ah Er 64
HSDS Ah San 64
SPW Xiang Wentian 63
DGSD Murong Fu 63
DGSD Taoist Buping 56
SPW Beggar Union Chief Jie Feng 54
DGSD Lotus Fairy Cui Luhua 54
(ROCH) Golden Wheel Monk's 1st disciple 52.5
SPW Lin Pingzhi 51.5
HSDS Hao Mi 50
HSDS Bu Tai 50
LOCH/ROCH Huang Rong 47.25
(HSDS) Shi Huolong 47.25
(HSDS) Reverend Kongxing 42
HSDS Xie Xun 42
XKX Bai Zizai 40.95
XKX Abbot Miaodi 40.95
ROCH Yin Kexi, Xiaoziangzi 39.9
XKX Xie Yanke 39.375
HSDS Yang Xiao, Fan Yao 38.85
HSDS Yin Tianzheng, Purple Dragon Lord, Wei Yixiao 36.75
HSDS Yu Lianzhou 35.7
HSDS Miejue 35.7
DGSD Duan Zhengchun 33.6
DGSD Cave Leader An (An Dongzhu) 33.6
HSDS Yin Liting 33.6
SSWRB Mu Renqing 33.075
DGSD Senior Boss Wu (Wu Laoda) 31.5
HSDS Zhuang Zheng 31.5
SSWRB Yuan Chengzhi 31.5
HSDS Abbot Tianming 31.5
(HSDS) Huogong Toutuo 30
SSWRB Golden Snake Prince Xia Xueyi 29.925
ROCH Daerba 28.875
ROCH Huodu 28.35
DOMD One-armed Nun 28.35
HSDS Zhou Zhiruo 26.25
DGSD Deng Baichuan 26.25
DGSD Bai Shijing 26.25
XKX Bei Haishi 25.2
DGSD 3 of 4 Evils 24.15
HSDS Zhang Cuishan 23.625
DGSD Gongye Gan 23.1
XKX Ding Busan 22.05
DGSD You Tanzhi's father 21
DOMD Holy Dragon Sect Leader Hong Antong 20.475
DGSD Quan Guanqing 18.9
XKX Ding Busi 18.9
DGSD Feng Bo'e 17.325
DGSD Bao Butong 17.325
DGSD Island/Cave Leader Duanmu Yuan 16.8
XKX Zhan Fei 15.75
XKX Shi Qing 15.75
XKX Bai Wanjian 15.75
DGSD Xue Muhua's Sect Brothers 14.175
DOMD Chen Jinnan 12.6
B&S Chen Jialuo 10.5
FOX Miao Renfeng 8.4
LOCH/ROCH Ke Zhen'e 8.4
DGSD Qin Hongmian, Gan Baobao, Ruan Xingzhu 8.4
DGSD Mu Wanqing 3.15
LOCH Yang Tiexin 1.575

[Dennis Chen]

I don't know how you can rank XF and JMZ the same even though they've never fought but you rank Yi Deng and Huang Yaoshi differently when it's a given that they're equals. Huang Yaoshi might have better external arts (debatable), but Yi Deng's internal has always been described in much loftier terms than Huang Yaoshi's internal.

[PJ]

I don't know how you can rank XF and JMZ the same even though they've never fought but you rank Yi Deng and Huang Yaoshi differently when it's a given that they're equals. Huang Yaoshi might have better external arts (debatable), but Yi Deng's internal has always been described in much loftier terms than Huang Yaoshi's internal.

Huang Yaoshi is also a better martial artist than Yideng. Just like Zhang Sanfeng is a better martial artist than Zhang Wuji. For all his originality, Huang Yaoshi deserves a slight prop, DON'T YOU THINK?

they are roughly equal but not necessarily exactly equal. I've also explained to you in the past why I felt Jin Yong described Huang Yaoshi's martial arts and/or combat performance more favorably in comparison with Yideng.

Jiumozhi and Xiao Feng, I just used my best estimate.

[CC]

You rate the "Undefeated under Heaven Golden Faced Buddha" Miao Renfeng as <9 pts? Even Bao Butong would kick his arse!

Aw c'mon, SWORD GOD should be closer to the normal Xuan monks!

Rant over...

[Dennis Chen]

Huang Yaoshi is also a better martial artist than Yideng. Just like Zhang Sanfeng is a better martial artist than Zhang Wuji. For all his originality, Huang Yaoshi deserves a slight prop, DON'T YOU THINK?

A better martial artist based upon what? Invention? In that case, shouldn't Yang Guo be slightly above Guo Jing instead of the other way around? Where in the books has it ever been shown that Huang Yaoshi is a better martial artist than Yi Deng? Had they still been alive at the end of ROCH, would OYF and HQG also be below Huang Yaoshi? In LOCH, even Huang Yaoshi was surprised after watching OYF and HQG fighting each other on Peach Blossom Island. HYS had thought he'd had passed the other Greats in martial arts, but he realized that they were still equals. I think it's the same at the end of ROCH.

[PJ]

A better martial artist based upon what? Invention? In that case, shouldn't Yang Guo be slightly above Guo Jing instead of the other way around?]

Come on, Yang Guo invented Sad Palm... Huang Yaoshi invented 5 times more martial arts than Yang Guo. There's no doubt that Huang Yaoshi is one of the greatest inventors in the field of martial arts.

Where in the books has it ever been shown that Huang Yaoshi is a better martial artist than Yi Deng?

Consider this: one became a Great by creating his own martial arts system, whereas the other inherited the martial arts of his family.

Had they still been alive at the end of ROCH, would OYF and HQG also be below Huang Yaoshi? In LOCH, even Huang Yaoshi was surprised after watching OYF and HQG fighting each other on Peach Blossom Island. HYS had thought he'd had passed the other Greats in martial arts, but he realized that they were still equals. I think it's the same at the end of ROCH.

Strength-wise, probably they would have all been the same. BUT, Huang Yaoshi has the advantage of knowing more techniques AND the ability to come up with new stuff. You have been an advocate of the notion that being able to come up with new styles "on the fly" is a plus. Huang Yaoshi would be a more successful candidate at this than Yideng.

[PJ]

You rate the "Undefeated under Heaven Golden Faced Buddha" Miao Renfeng as <9 pts? Even Bao Butong would kick his arse!

Well, it's all relative to where we put Chen Jinnan. Chen Jinnan is below the One-armed Nun, but should be better than Chen Jialuo, who is better than Miao Renfeng. So coming down the hierarchy, I personally think that Miao Renfeng is probably 3 to 4 times worse than the One-armed Nun.

[Whsie]

I just thought of this..., but....
Xuan generation ~ Ben Generation. This does seem accepted by the forum.
However, how are XF and JMZ equal when XF is = 3 Xuan Generation (according to 3rd edition) and JMZ can match up to 6 Ben Generation monks?
I'm not suggesting JMZ is 2X XF, but I'm saying.... is this a contradiction JY by accident made or what?

[PJ]

I just thought of this..., but....
Xuan generation ~ Ben Generation. This does seem accepted by the forum.
However, how are XF and JMZ equal when XF is = 3 Xuan Generation (according to 3rd edition) and JMZ can match up to 6 Ben Generation monks?
I'm not suggesting JMZ is 2X XF, but I'm saying.... is this a contradiction JY by accident made or what?

I personally do support that Xuan =~ Ben/Duan. But it is a fact that Ben monks only had pathetically limited time to learn and "master" 6MSJ. By using 6MSJ in combat, they were not exposing their maximum power, as evident when Jiumozhi unleashed a bi-directional palm assault, and the monks could not withstand it with 6MSJ, but they could withstand it with their palms. I doubt their palm power are as good as their Yiyang Finger power, so perhaps their 6MSJ strength is only a small fraction of their Yiyang Finger strength. That's what I believe.

Furthermore Jin Yong said in HSDS that it normally takes 10 to 20 years to grasp a sword skill. Obviously the 5 monks did not have this luxury, not even close.

Furtherfurthermore, Elder Kurong barely participated in the combat. If he went all out, the outcome may be different.

As for contradictions, Jin Yong is full of it. Sometimes we can try to make sense of things by creating mind-bogglingly complicated logic.

[Dennis Chen]

The ranking is nice and all, but I think the weights and rankings here depend too much on personal interpretation of the texts.

[Ken Cheng]

Jin Yong is full of it.

I love Jin Yong's work and have great admiration for his creativity and skill, but I have to agree with PJ. Sometimes, Jin Yong is full of it. All wuxia writers are.

[Sarrows]

I personally do support that Xuan =~ Ben/Duan. But it is a fact that Ben monks only had pathetically limited time to learn and "master" 6MSJ. By using 6MSJ in combat, they were not exposing their maximum power, as evident when Jiumozhi unleashed a bi-directional palm assault, and the monks could not withstand it with 6MSJ, but they could withstand it with their palms. I doubt their palm power are as good as their Yiyang Finger power, so perhaps their 6MSJ strength is only a small fraction of their Yiyang Finger strength. That's what I believe.

Furthermore Jin Yong said in HSDS that it normally takes 10 to 20 years to grasp a sword skill. Obviously the 5 monks did not have this luxury, not even close.

Furtherfurthermore, Elder Kurong barely participated in the combat. If he went all out, the outcome may be different.

As for contradictions, Jin Yong is full of it. Sometimes we can try to make sense of things by creating mind-bogglingly complicated logic.

Well JMZ and XF are about equals. Because XF has the wine and warrior spirit,JMZ has more variety of skills and very high internal.But i favor JMZ and i think he is slightly above XF,cause i doubt XF would own JMZ.

[Whsie]

just what I thought. I personally felt if the Ben Generation had used Solitary Yang Finger Level 4, they would have done better than the minute 6MSJ.

[Sarrows]

There is no evidence to support That SPT is weaker then Xuzhu,skillwise,they are equals i would say

[kyss of the sword]

(discounting SM) XuZhu has the highest inner power in jinyong, SPT probably the next. the rest of the greats were in the same range as SPT, including XF,GJ,YG were in the same range as SPT. just a bit lower possibly. say, (99.0% of his inner power)

HYS did not nessesarily have more techniques then the other greats, just more strange ones. each of the greats had a wide variety of techniques but they had a main powerful technique they used the most while, HYS could only match HL18Z, toad stance and yiyangzhi by using TZTSG and jade flute swordplay together. he often used more combinations of lesser skills to match the other greats greater skills.

[Sarrows]

Unofficial Ranking version 2

DGSD Sweeper Monk 1000
DGSD Xuzhu 500
XKX Shi Potian (trance mode) 400
DGSD Wuyazi, Tianshan Tonglao, Li Qiushui 330
(ROCH/SPW) Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai 280
DGSD Xiao Feng 255
DGSD Jiumozhi 255
(LOCH) Huang Shang 254
DGSD Murong Bo, Xiao Yuanshan 252.4
SPW Dongfang Bubai 250
LOCH/ROCH Guo Jing 250
HSDS Zhang Sanfeng 245
ROCH Yang Guo (Unsad mode, one arm) 230
HSDS Zhang Wuji 229
LOCH/ROCH Zhou Botong 228
(LOCH/ROCH) Wang Chongyang 228
ROCH Golden Wheel Monk 226
LOCH/ROCH Huang Yaoshi 220
LOCH/ROCH Yideng 218
LOCH/ROCH Qiu Qianren 211
ROCH Lin Chaoying 200
(HSDS) Guo Xiang 200
LOCH/ROCH Hong Qigong 178.5
LOCH/ROCH Ouyang Feng 177.45
DGSD Xiao Yuanshan (30 years ago) 147
XKX Lord Long and Lord Mu 147
DGSD You Tanzhi 115.5
HSDS Reverend Kongjian 115.5
DGSD Elder Kurong 115.5
SPW Ren Woxing 110.25
SPW Feng Qingyang 110.25
SPW Abbot Fangzheng 110.25
ROCH Little Dragon Girl 105
SPW Priest Chongxu 99.75
SPW Linghu Chong 94.5
DGSD Abbot Xuanci 89.25
DGSD Duan Zhengming 84
DGSD Duan Yanqing 84
DGSD Ding Chunqiu 84
DGSD other Xuan generation monks 81.9
DGSD Abbot Benyin and his fellow monks 80.85
HSDS Duwei 80.85
XKX Zhang San and Li Si 78.75
(HSDS) Yang Dingtian 78.75
HSDS Dujie 78.75
HSDS Dunan 75.6
DGSD Yellow-eyebrowed Monk 73.5
HSDS Yellow-dressed Lady 73.5
(HSDS) He Zudao (beginning of HSDS) 73
DGSD Su Xinghe 68.25
HSDS Xuanming Elders 68.25
(DGSD) Former Beggar Union Leader Wang Jiantong 66.15
HSDS Eight-armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai 66
HSDS Cheng Kun 65.1
DGSD SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan 65
HSDS Ah Er 64
HSDS Ah San 64
SPW Xiang Wentian 63
DGSD Murong Fu 63
DGSD Taoist Buping 56
SPW Beggar Union Chief Jie Feng 54
DGSD Lotus Fairy Cui Luhua 54
(ROCH) Golden Wheel Monk's 1st disciple 52.5
HSDS Hao Mi 50
HSDS Bu Tai 50
LOCH/ROCH Huang Rong 47.25
(HSDS) Shi Huolong 47.25
(HSDS) Reverend Kongxing 42
HSDS Xie Xun 42
XKX Bai Zizai 40.95
XKX Abbot Miaodi 40.95
ROCH Yin Kexi, Xiaoziangzi 39.9
XKX Xie Yanke 39.375
HSDS Yang Xiao, Fan Yao 38.85
HSDS Yin Tianzheng, Purple Dragon Lord, Wei Yixiao 36.75
HSDS Yu Lianzhou 35.7
HSDS Miejue 35.7
DGSD Duan Zhengchun 33.6
DGSD Cave Leader An (An Dongzhu) 33.6
HSDS Yin Liting 33.6
SSWRB Mu Renqing 33.075
DGSD Senior Boss Wu (Wu Laoda) 31.5
HSDS Zhuang Zheng 31.5
SSWRB Yuan Chengzhi 31.5
SPW Lin Pingzhi 31.5
HSDS Abbot Tianming 31.5
(HSDS) Huogong Toutuo 30
SSWRB Golden Snake Prince Xia Xueyi 29.925
ROCH Daerba 28.875
ROCH Huodu 28.35
DOMD One-armed Nun 28.35
HSDS Zhou Zhiruo 26.25
DGSD Deng Baichuan 26.25
DGSD Bai Shijing 26.25
XKX Bei Haishi 25.2
DGSD 3 of 4 Evils 24.15
HSDS Zhang Cuishan 23.625
DGSD Gongye Gan 23.1
XKX Ding Busan 22.05
DGSD You Tanzhi's father 21
DOMD Holy Dragon Sect Leader Hong Antong 20.475
DGSD Quan Guanqing 18.9
XKX Ding Busi 18.9
DGSD Feng Bo'e 17.325
DGSD Bao Butong 17.325
DGSD Island/Cave Leader Duanmu Yuan 16.8
XKX Zhan Fei 15.75
XKX Shi Qing 15.75
XKX Bai Wanjian 15.75
DGSD Xue Muhua's Sect Brothers 14.175
DOMD Chen Jinnan 12.6
B&S Chen Jialuo 10.5
FOX Miao Renfeng 8.4
LOCH/ROCH Ke Zhen'e 8.4
DGSD Qin Hongmian, Gan Baobao, Ruan Xingzhu 8.4
DGSD Mu Wanqing 3.15
LOCH Yang Tiexin 1.575


Greetings

For the past several years I have been compiling a percentage-based ranking of fighters/martial artists from the Jin Yong universe. This is different from Laviathan's ULTIMATE RANKING because Lav's approach grouped fighters in levels rather than rating each fighter individually. Sometimes one level contained a big gap within, such as the gap between the 7 Heroes of Wudang (who are in the same level according to the ULTIMATE RANKING). I feel that expressing each fighter as a percentage of a certain base generally gives more insight to his exact placement in Jin Yong wuxia.

Starting the Sweeper Monk at the base percentage of 1000%, each fighter's percentage has been determined with respect to Sweeper Monk. For example, Zhan Fei's rating of 15% means 15% out of Sweeper Monk's 1000%, which means Zhan Fei =~ 1.5% of the Sweeper Monk.

Of course, I am aware that there have already been several attempts to unify Jin Yong's fighters in a ranking system; however I do not believe an attempt of this exactness and magnitude has been executed... and also my fandom is just too deep to not have a share in the ranking business.

Here is the entire ranking. The list does not include every fighter who is qualified; I have simply selected some characters for this first version. I would like to have a friendly discussion about your thoughts. Since Jin Yong is not always consistent with his descriptions, it will no doubt generate different, but equally valid, opinions.




DGSD Sweeper Monk 1000%
DGSD Xuzhu 500%
XKX Shi Potian (trance mode) 400%
DGSD Wuyazi, Tianshan Tonglao, Li Qiushui 330%
(ROCH/SPW) Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai 280%
DGSD Xiao Feng 255%
DGSD Jiumozhi 255%
DGSD Murong Bo, Xiao Yuanshan 252.40%
SPW Dongfang Bubai 250%
(LOCH) Huang Shang 240%
LOCH/ROCH Guo Jing 235%
HSDS Zhang Sanfeng 225%
ROCH Yang Guo (Unsad mode, one arm) 217.50%
LOCH/ROCH Zhou Botong 213%
(LOCH/ROCH) Wang Chongyang 210%
ROCH Golden Wheel Monk 210%
HSDS Zhang Wuji 210.00%
LOCH/ROCH Huang Yaoshi 205%
LOCH/ROCH Yideng 203%
LOCH/ROCH Qiu Qianren 195%
ROCH Lin Chaoying 195%
(HSDS) Guo Xiang 195%
LOCH/ROCH Hong Qigong 170%
LOCH/ROCH Ouyang Feng 169.00%
DGSD Xiao Yuanshan (30 years ago) 140%
XKX Lord Long and Lord Mu 140%
DGSD You Tanzhi 110%
HSDS Reverend Kongjian 110%
DGSD Elder Kurong 110%
SPW Ren Woxing 105%
SPW Feng Qingyang 105%
SPW Abbot Fangzheng 105%
ROCH Little Dragon Girl 100%
SPW Priest Chongxu 95%
SPW Linghu Chong 90%
DGSD Abbot Xuanci 85%
DGSD Duan Zhengming 80%
DGSD Duan Yanqing 80%
DGSD Ding Chunqiu 80%
DGSD other Xuan generation monks 78%
DGSD Abbot Benyin and his fellow monks 77%
HSDS Duwei 77%
XKX Zhang San and Li Si 75%
(HSDS) Yang Dingtian 75%
HSDS Dujie 75%
HSDS Dunan 72%
DGSD SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan 71%
SPW Beggar Union Chief Jie Feng 70.60%
LOCH/ROCH Yellow-eyebrowed Monk 70%
HSDS Yellow-dressed Lady 70%
SPW Xiang Wentian 70%
HSDS Eight-armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai 70%
HSDS Ah Er 67%
HSDS Ah San 67%
DGSD Su Xinghe 65%
HSDS Xuanming Elders 65%
(DGSD) Former Beggar Union Leader Wang Jiantong 63%
HSDS Cheng Kun 62%
DGSD Murong Fu 60%
DGSD Taoist Buping 60%
DGSD Lotus Fairy Cui Luhua 60%
(HSDS) He Zudao (beginning of HSDS) 60%
(ROCH) Golden Wheel Monk's 1st disciple 50%
(HSDS) Huogong Toutuo 48%
LOCH/ROCH Huang Rong 45.00%
(HSDS) Shi Huolong 45%
HSDS Xie Xun 40%
XKX Bai Zizai 39%
XKX Abbot Miaodi 39%
ROCH Yin Kexi, Xiaoziangzi 38%
XKX Xie Yanke 37.50%
HSDS Yang Xiao, Fan Yao 37%
HSDS Yin Tianzheng, Purple Dragon Lord, Wei Yixiao 35%
HSDS Yu Lianzhou 34%
HSDS Miejue 34%
DGSD Duan Zhengchun 32%
DGSD Island Leader An (An Dongzhu) 32%
HSDS Yin Liting 32%
SSWRB Mu Renqing 31.50%
DGSD Senior Boss Wu (Wu Laoda) 30%
HSDS Zhuang Zheng 30%
SSWRB Yuan Chengzhi 30%
SPW Lin Pingzhi 30%
HSDS Abbot Tianming 30%
SSWRB Golden Snake Prince Xia Xueyi 28.50%
ROCH Daerba 27.50%
ROCH Huodu 27%
DOMD One-armed Nun 27%
HSDS Zhou Zhiruo 25%
DGSD Deng Baichuan 25%
DGSD Bai Shijing 25%
XKX Bei Haishi 24%
DGSD 3 of 4 Evils 23%
HSDS Zhang Cuishan 22.50%
DGSD Gongye Gan 22%
XKX Ding Busan 21%
DGSD You Tanzhi's father 20%
DOMD Holy Dragon Sect Leader Hong Antong 19.50%
DGSD Quan Guanqing 18%
XKX Ding Busi 18%
DGSD Feng Bo'e 16.50%
DGSD Bao Butong 16.50%
DGSD Island Leader Duanmu Yuan 16%
XKX Zhan Fei 15%
XKX Shi Qing 15%
XKX Bai Wanjian 15%
DGSD Xue Muhua's Sect Brothers 13.50%
DOMD Chen Jinnan 12%
B&S Chen Jialuo 10%
FOX Miao Renfeng 8%
LOCH/ROCH Ke Zhen'e 8%
DGSD Qin Hongmian, Gan Baobao, Ruan Xingzhu 8%
DGSD Mu Wanqing 3%
LOCH Yang Tiexin 1.50%

Is Yang Tie Xin really that weak? and btw are you saying huodu is that weak?cmon he and daerba werent that weak,they r at least 30%.20% is too weak.

[yittz]

(discounting SM) XuZhu has the highest inner power in jinyong, SPT probably the next. the rest of the greats were in the same range as SPT, including XF,GJ,YG were in the same range as SPT. just a bit lower possibly. say, (99.0% of his inner power)

HYS did not nessesarily have more techniques then the other greats, just more strange ones. each of the greats had a wide variety of techniques but they had a main powerful technique they used the most while, HYS could only match HL18Z, toad stance and yiyangzhi by using TZTSG and jade flute swordplay together. he often used more combinations of lesser skills to match the other greats greater skills.

You never quote your source. All your facts are just feelings based on book/adaption.

HYS stated he cannot match YG's sad palm with his LYSZhang, and can only neutralise it with his divine flick. Hence his flick =/near YG's sad palm and GJ's XL18Z. His flick is no less than YYZ or toad or H7G XL18Z. Yes I agree other Greats may have other techniques. It's just that Jin Yong is a major fan of HYS, so HYS gets more coverage of his techniques. HYS is famous for his flute play, but it's been shown that it's neutralised by OYF and H7G music (albeit it's clear who has better musical abilities).

[Whsie]

HYS does use lower skills to match higher ones.
When HYS taught YG Flute Sword and Divine Flick, it was mentioned that combined, this can be a lethal combination since it targets the accupoints.
When H7G talked about that if he had accepted Yideng's offer and learned Solitary Yang Finger AND Pre Heaven, he would clearly the #1 fighter next time. Before that, he said that just Solitary Finger alone could match with OYF's Toad Stance, his own XL18Z, and HYS' Pi Kong Palm and Divine Flick.
So yeah... most sources seem to point out HYS using arts in combination.

[Areaofdefect]

I personally do support that Xuan =~ Ben/Duan. But it is a fact that Ben monks only had pathetically limited time to learn and "master" 6MSJ. By using 6MSJ in combat, they were not exposing their maximum power, as evident when Jiumozhi unleashed a bi-directional palm assault, and the monks could not withstand it with 6MSJ, but they could withstand it with their palms. I doubt their palm power are as good as their Yiyang Finger power, so perhaps their 6MSJ strength is only a small fraction of their Yiyang Finger strength. That's what I believe.

Furthermore Jin Yong said in HSDS that it normally takes 10 to 20 years to grasp a sword skill. Obviously the 5 monks did not have this luxury, not even close.

Furtherfurthermore, Elder Kurong barely participated in the combat. If he went all out, the outcome may be different.

As for contradictions, Jin Yong is full of it. Sometimes we can try to make sense of things by creating mind-bogglingly complicated logic.

But i thought 6msj is powered by yyz,and yyz is the monk's best art,no disavantage.Conclusion: Jmz is superior to XF

[Dennis Chen]

HYS does use lower skills to match higher ones.
When HYS taught YG Flute Sword and Divine Flick, it was mentioned that combined, this can be a lethal combination since it targets the accupoints.
When H7G talked about that if he had accepted Yideng's offer and learned Solitary Yang Finger AND Pre Heaven, he would clearly the #1 fighter next time. Before that, he said that just Solitary Finger alone could match with OYF's Toad Stance, his own XL18Z, and HYS' Pi Kong Palm and Divine Flick.
So yeah... most sources seem to point out HYS using arts in combination.

So, Toad Stance, HX18Z and Yi Yang Zhi were all equal, but Peach Blossom arts individually were inferior. That makes sense because HYS's most powerful martial art - Tanzhi Shentong - is said to be the 2nd greatest finger skill next to Yi Yang Zhi. Yet, HYS is every bit the EQUAL of Yi Deng. This takes nothing away from HYS, he is still a martial arts genius; HYS was able to take all the skills he created and use them as a system of martial arts and be an EQUAL to all the other Greats.

Still, I think that this shows that Quanzhen martial arts is greater than the other Great's martial arts. At least, Xian Tian Gong was because it was that martial art that defeated the other Greats.