So who was Xiao Feng referring to?

[CC]

这两人武功都十分了得，料想俱不在自己之下，武林之中有此身手者寥寥可数，屈着
手指，一个个能算得出来，但想来想去，谁都不像。

From chapter 20 DGSD.

These two persons' martial art was incredible, definitely not below his own, there were not many such people in wulin, just using his fingers, he could count them out one-by-one but non of them looked liked it.

At this point, XF had never met MRF, did not know about XYS and MRB and I don't think he knew about TSTL/WYZ/LQS/JMZ. So who in wulin had skills not-below his own? Someone like Xuan Ci who was next best was only 1/3rd his ability.

I don't think he had ever met DCQ and DZM at this point too and they were also much less then half his level.

[ChronoReverse]

Perhaps XF was secretly a bosom buddy with our favorite SWORD GOD?

[Ren Wo Xing]

What was the circumstances under which he saw/felt this? More info on context, please!

[HuangYushi]

这两人武功都十分了得，料想俱不在自己之下，武林之中有此身手者寥寥可数，屈着
手指，一个个能算得出来，但想来想去，谁都不像。
So who was Xiao Feng referring to?

Assuming that you are referring to the 两人 at the start of the quoted text, just move back to the sentence before this and you'll get the answer: 害我的那个仇人是谁？救我的那位恩公是谁？

The 1st person was "the foe who harmed me", i.e. 害我的那个仇人, who was later revealed to be the "带头大哥", the "Big Brother Leader" and Abbot of Shaolin, Xuanci, who in turn was received by Murong Bo (the true culprit and foe) donkey years ago.

The 2nd person was "the benevolent (man) who rescued me (from Juxian Manor)", i.e. 救我的那位恩公, who was later revealed to be his own father, Xiao Yuanshan.

About Xuanci's martial arts prowess (and the abilities of Xiao Yuanshan and Murong Bo, for that matter): The passage in Chapter 20 from which the topic text was extracted was written from Xiao Feng's point of view. Therefore, the assessment of the two people's martial arts skills was also from Xiao Feng's point of view, based solely on whatever pugilistic interaction/exchange that he had with them (or a lack of it). Hence, Xiao Feng's thoughts/assessment cannot be used to determine the true abilities of Xuanci (as well as Xiao Yuanshan and Murong Bo) without the necessary qualification (i.e. that these are Xiao Feng's thoughts/assessments).

Finally: Since Xiao Feng had not met Murong Bo up to that point of the story, how did he come to the conclusion that "料想俱不在自己之下"?

The key is in the words "料想", which is basically an act of conjecture on Xiao Feng's part, based on the things that had been happening to him, such as being blamed for the murders of his fpster parents, and the death of his martial arts teacher in Shaolin; as well as the major gathering of wulin people in Juxian Manor just so that those people could plan to do something about him. In Xiao Feng's mind, a person who can do all those things, including getting a large group of wulin people to act on his (the person's) behalf, should be very influential, and by the same token, very highly skilled in martial arts. That was how Xiao Feng "料想" that this person's abilities were not beneath his own.

[wang23]

If at that time QF had never met MRF, QF probably could not have guessed that MRF was that much inferior to him. After all, in the public eye they were supposed to be equals.

[CC]

The key is in the words "料想", which is basically an act of conjecture on Xiao Feng's part, based on the things that had been happening to him, such as being blamed for the murders of his fpster parents, and the death of his martial arts teacher in Shaolin; as well as the major gathering of wulin people in Juxian Manor just so that those people could plan to do something about him. In Xiao Feng's mind, a person who can do all those things, including getting a large group of wulin people to act on his (the person's) behalf, should be very influential, and by the same token, very highly skilled in martial arts. That was how Xiao Feng "料想" that this person's abilities were not beneath his own.

OK, if break it into 2 parts. There were 2 persons referred to by XF. The Enemy and the Benefactor. Lets ignore the Enemy for now.

He had seen the skills of the Benefactor from the use of the whip to deflect the horde of projectiles, the whip for movement and he had also just exchanged 20 strokes with that person. So he should have a good gauge of this persons ability.

XF also had an exchange with Xuan Ci earlier and witnessed the Warrior Attendant Palm first hand.

What I am saying is that XF knows that there are several people out there with XYS's kung fu ability. Who could he be referring to. I believe your argument is that he is going by pure reputation and conjecture (i.e. He might be counting people like the Duan's and the Murong's with their fearsome family reputation) but if we take the last bit of the paragraph '但想来想去，谁都不像', it seems to me that he was matching physical descriptions so it must be people he met before?

[CC]

Perhaps XF was secretly a bosom buddy with our favorite SWORD GOD?

Heehee, first reply was the answer I was waiting for!

[HuangYushi]

What I am saying is that XF knows that there are several people out there with XYS's kung fu ability. Who could he be referring to. I believe your argument is that he is going by pure reputation and conjecture (i.e. He might be counting people like the Duan's and the Murong's with their fearsome family reputation) but if we take the last bit of the paragraph '但想来想去，谁都不像', it seems to me that he was matching physical descriptions so it must be people he met before?

Yes, I agree with you that Xiao Feng knows that there are several people out there with Xiao Yuanshan's ability, and on top of that, Feng can count these people on his fingers. [屈着手指，一个个能算得出来].

But I do not completely agree that Feng is going by pure reputation and conjecture in enumerating these people, because he might have met some of them before, and thus, conjecture would no longer be an important factor. That is how Feng ended up comparing the Enemy/Benefactor to individuals that he had met before. [但想来想去，谁都不像].

And one of reasons why he was unable to find a match was the fact that the Benefactor did not allow his moves to give his pugilistic background away. [招式中绝不泄漏身份来历].

Now, looking at the passage from Piaget's theory of adaptation, assimilation and accommodation (one of the theories on how cognition works), I see Xiao Feng thinking aloud and trying to make some sense out of the seemingly incomprehensible situation that he was in at that point in time. He was moving back and forth between what he knew (knowledge/fact) and what he did not know (conjecture/assumptions), and this, from a literary point of view, is a way in which JY portrays the confusion and frustration in Xiao Feng's mind.

As for the people whom Xiao Feng counted on his fingers, JY does not really need to list all these people out or give them life as characters in the novel, if his (JY's) aim is simply to show Xiao Feng's bewilderment, and to a certain extent, helplessness.

And I think JY succeeded in this, because readers end up bewildered too!

[CC]

Well, so you mostly agree then? That there existed other unamed XF/XYS level fighters out there in the DGSD world if we go by the words of that paragraph.

[LuNaR]

this is probably 1 of jin yong's over exxagerating errors again

[HuangYushi]

Well, so you mostly agree then? That there existed other unamed XF/XYS level fighters out there in the DGSD world if we go by the words of that paragraph.

Yes. The wulin, and the jianghu beyond that, is certainly much bigger and wider than the extent that they are portrayed in the novel. A wider wulin/jianghu is more realistic than a narrower one in which everyone knows everyone.

[LuNaR]

Yes. The wulin, and the jianghu beyond that, is certainly much bigger and wider than the extent that they are portrayed in the novel. A wider wulin/jianghu is more realistic than a narrower one in which everyone knows everyone.

this is wrong... the main character in every wuxia novel always get a chance to meet every single character in wuxlin or jianghu, especially if he was XF calibur.

[Ken Cheng]

this is wrong... the main character in every wuxia novel always get a chance to meet every single character in wuxlin or jianghu, especially if he was XF calibur.

Considering that wulin at any given time was composed of tens of thousands of people (and I'm being very conservative; some of the larger sects numbered a few thousand people), this is highly unlikely. I know for sure I haven't met ten thousand people in my lifetime.

[S Beaver]

this is wrong... the main character in every wuxia novel always get a chance to meet every single character in wuxlin or jianghu, especially if he was XF calibur.

the ones that are actually famous and known, yes. but there tends to be an over abundance of "hermits" out there...

[PJ]

Finally: Since Xiao Feng had not met Murong Bo up to that point of the story, how did he come to the conclusion that "料想俱不在自己之下"?

The key is in the words "料想", which is basically an act of conjecture on Xiao Feng's part, based on the things that had been happening to him, such as being blamed for the murders of his fpster parents, and the death of his martial arts teacher in Shaolin; as well as the major gathering of wulin people in Juxian Manor just so that those people could plan to do something about him. In Xiao Feng's mind, a person who can do all those things, including getting a large group of wulin people to act on his (the person's) behalf, should be very influential, and by the same token, very highly skilled in martial arts. That was how Xiao Feng "料想" that this person's abilities were not beneath his own.

I mostly agree with HuangYushi. Later, we see that Xiao Feng overestimated the abilities of Dali Duan family, thinking that they could all perform 6MSJ. Perhaps he thought that Duan Zhengchun was actually one of the 武林之中有此身手者. As well as Murong Bo, who would be a natural consideration due to their name match (North Qiao Feng, South Murong).

But I also agree with CC about 但想来想去，谁都不像 -- this sentence suggests Qiao Feng might have actually met some of those 有此身手者. Maybe they were simply out of the scope of the story. I am too lazy at the moment to think about who it could be

[Huang Rong]

well, in a certain preceding chapter, Xiao Feng'd met Duan Yu and witnessed the incredible internal energy and qing gong of the student, so he thought that all the members of the Duan family were at least as powerful as Duan Yu.
therefore the elite masters that Xiao Feng thought he could count them using his fingers are probably: Duan Yu, Duan Zhengchun, Duan Zhengming, Murong Fu and certainly: SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan!

[PJ]

As well as Murong Bo...

My mistake, it should be Murong Fu. Papa Murong was already pronounced DEAD at the time, even though he was later "resurrected."

[R!chard]

Or you could look at it this way...

"但想来想去，谁都不像"


He is just assuming there are two people whom are around his level and he is trying to compare everyone he has encountered with the two and the result is that he can't find anyone. The reason could be anything but to me I think XF just can't find anyone strong enough who fits his description. So in other words, XF does not know anyone who is at least as strong as himself.

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

Honestly there are a lot of people who are "stronger" than him, including MRF, MRB, Wu Ya Zi, TSTL

But if you're talking about fighting, XF's spirit just crushes them all during fights

[PJ]

Or you could look at it this way...

"但想来想去，谁都不像"


He is just assuming there are two people whom are around his level and he is trying to compare everyone he has encountered with the two and the result is that he can't find anyone. The reason could be anything but to me I think XF just can't find anyone strong enough who fits his description. So in other words, XF does not know anyone who is at least as strong as himself.

<< 这两人武功都十分了得，料想俱不在自己之下，武林之中有此身手者寥寥可数 >>

He estimated those 2 people to be on par with him, AND there exists very few people in the martial world. But these few people DO exist. That's why he was going through them on his finger, see below:

<< 屈着手指，一个个能算得出来，但想来想去，谁都不像。 >>

He was clearly talking about none of the "very few people whose martial arts are on par with him" seemed like his enemy or his benefactor.