Second tier fighters (mainly ROCH/LOCH)

[tape]

Who are the second tier fighters in ROCH/LOCH? I may be forgetting some people, but if we lump QQR with the Greats, it seems that the second tier fighters are so far below the Great tier fighters that it's almost unbelievable. In LOCH, the second tier fighters would probably consist of the QuanZhen Disciples and a few others like OuYang Ke. I can't think of any people above them that aren't at Great level besides Guo Jing, and he reaches Great level in ROCH. This seems so strange to me. Considering the QZ disciples require 7 of them and a special formation to match one Great, they are maybe 10% of a great. MAYBE. It seems strange that the gap between the second tier and third tier (the weaker flunkies of the Prince) and fourth tier (maybe Beggar Clan elders?) are comparitively small, with 20-30% differences, but then there's a huge jump from second to first. It wouldn't be as strange if there's one person head and shoulders above the rest like this, since he would be an anamoly, but theres the 4 Greats plus old Zhuo and QQR. Are they really THAT much more talented than all of the rest of wulin, many of whom devote their entire life to martial arts, that the closest competitors are less (much less) than a tenth of their power? Seems a bit unfair :P

Same thing with ROCH. The second tier fighters probably include the better QZ disciples as well as the powerful flunkies from Mongolia and Gongsun Zi perhaps. Wong Yung and Little Dragon Girl. There seems to be a lot more second tier fighters, but again they are powerfully outmatched with the exception of Little Dragon Girl, and in terms of pure martial arts she is probably on the same level as them. The 5 elder QZ members still require a special formation to even hope to compete with GWM, so the gap is barely closed. They are at most 20% of his power. (Side thought, you would think 5 prolific martial artists practicing for another 20 years would have combined greater progress than someone like an Old Great who probably has nothing new to learn, but nope.) The Mongolian fighters got toyed with by post 16 Year Greats, so the gap increased even more. Once again first and second tier probably have a huge difference. Seems novels would be a bit more interesting if first tier were actually in danger when two or three second tier fighters attack them, rather than them owning them so badly despite being a great and respected martial artist.

[sarakoth]

second tier fighters in LOCH/ROCH = people below greats but above everyone else

L Muo Chou
Qiu Chu Ji
Ma Yu
Zhu Zi Liu
Mei Chao Feng
Chen Xuan Feng
Feng Mo Feng
Huo Du
Daerba
followers of Kublai Khan
Gong Sun Zhi

all of them are fairly close to Greats level

there is quite a big difference between better members of 7 QZ and worse ones

[Felix]

L Muo Chou
Qiu Chu Ji
Ma Yu
Zhu Zi Liu
Mei Chao Feng
Chen Xuan Feng
Feng Mo Feng
Huo Du
Daerba
followers of Kublai Khan
Gong Sun Zhi

Do you think any of the mentioned above in their primes would have a chance to defeat the Greats at the very first Mt Hua tournament (in which WCY won)?

[PJ]

plus old Zhuo

Hi, I couldn't help but notice your incorrect rendition of Old Zhou Botong's name. Has SWORD GOD been with you in spirit?

[Snafu3721]

second tier fighters in LOCH/ROCH = people below greats but above everyone else

L Muo Chou
Qiu Chu Ji
Ma Yu
Zhu Zi Liu
Mei Chao Feng
Chen Xuan Feng
Feng Mo Feng
Huo Du
Daerba
followers of Kublai Khan
Gong Sun Zhi

all of them are fairly close to Greats level

there is quite a big difference between better members of 7 QZ and worse ones

I don't think any of those people listed are even fairly close to a Greats level. HYS can kill LMC with a broken zither without exchanging any techniques at all. None of the QZ seven can match more than 10 stances with a Great in both LOCH or ROCH. Kublai Kahn's followers were ping pong balls for YG and HYS. GJ beat Huo Du in one stance...These are just a few examples.

So the discrepancy between these 2nd tier fighters and the Greats are huge.

[tape]

Hi, I couldn't help but notice your incorrect rendition of Old Zhou Botong's name. Has SWORD GOD been with you in spirit?

Maybe


But yeah, second tier fighters are so far below it's not even funny. I might be used to events today where the best, even if he's acknowledged as the best, can still be beaten by number two or three on any given day, and the top 1% are all very very close to number 1, and even the top 10% are only a notch away. This standard just blows everything away.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Maybe


But yeah, second tier fighters are so far below it's not even funny. I might be used to events today where the best, even if he's acknowledged as the best, can still be beaten by number two or three on any given day, and the top 1% are all very very close to number 1, and even the top 10% are only a notch away. This standard just blows everything away.

Keep in mind that there's also, for many of these second tier fighters, a 30 or so year age difference, I think. Many of them belong to the 'next' generation, and they would naturally be weaker.

[odbayarb2000]

I think it's somehow due to the age gap.
5 greatest(WCY died a lot earlier though) of LOCH are very very old. During ROCH they are maybe reaching 100.
Zhou Botong should classified with them both in terms of martial art and age.

GWM maybe younger in terms of age.

GJ and YG are exceptions. They are too young but their martial arts are in same level of the Greats do . That's what makes them so special and main character.

I want to XLN classify lightly higher than second tier fighters . I hope you guys know reasons.
And also Iron Palm .... Sorry I forgot the name.

--------------

QZ sects seven master
Mongolian Fighters from different nations
LMC
Huang Rong
Huo Du
Daerba
Gong Sun Zhi
Seven freaks
and others

[sarakoth]

I think it's somehow due to the age gap.
5 greatest(WCY died a lot earlier though) of LOCH are very very old. During ROCH they are maybe reaching 100.
Zhou Botong should classified with them both in terms of martial art and age.

GWM maybe younger in terms of age.

GJ and YG are exceptions. They are too young but their martial arts are in same level of the Greats do . That's what makes them so special and main character.

I want to XLN classify lightly higher than second tier fighters . I hope you guys know reasons.
And also Iron Palm .... Sorry I forgot the name.

--------------

QZ sects seven master
Mongolian Fighters from different nations
LMC
Huang Rong
Huo Du
Daerba
Gong Sun Zhi
Seven freaks
and others

although the 7 freaks improve A LOT in the 18 years they spent in Mongolia

it still takes 6, I repeat, 6 of them to match Mei Chao Feng who is think is 2nd tier

I think the 7 Freaks should be in a third tier

[odbayarb2000]

Actually I haven't seen or watch LOCH. Therefore I have no idea about the ability of seven freaks. I just made blind guess.

[HuangRong]

doen't LingZhiShangRen from LOCH in the Jin Guo palace of WanYanHongLie fit into the second tier? he is owned three consecutive times by Zhou BoTong, Huang Yao Shi, and OuYang Feng.

[Dai Hiep]

MCF had the potential to be a great fighter or even better villain in LOCH/ROCH...too bad she was nerf to be a blind person...her newly acquired bone claw arts was feared in LOCH....

i think most of WYS students had potential to bad the master broke their limbs

[goodrick]

Who are the second tier fighters in ROCH/LOCH? I may be forgetting some people, but if we lump QQR with the Greats, it seems that the second tier fighters are so far below the Great tier fighters that it's almost unbelievable. In LOCH, the second tier fighters would probably consist of the QuanZhen Disciples and a few others like OuYang Ke. I can't think of any people above them that aren't at Great level besides Guo Jing, and he reaches Great level in ROCH. This seems so strange to me. Considering the QZ disciples require 7 of them and a special formation to match one Great, they are maybe 10% of a great. MAYBE. It seems strange that the gap between the second tier and third tier (the weaker flunkies of the Prince) and fourth tier (maybe Beggar Clan elders?) are comparitively small, with 20-30% differences, but then there's a huge jump from second to first. It wouldn't be as strange if there's one person head and shoulders above the rest like this, since he would be an anamoly, but theres the 4 Greats plus old Zhuo and QQR. Are they really THAT much more talented than all of the rest of wulin, many of whom devote their entire life to martial arts, that the closest competitors are less (much less) than a tenth of their power? Seems a bit unfair :P

I don't think it would be fair to club QQR with the greats. He was definitely a notch or two below the greats and would be easily defeated by them.

Also did you forget Mei Chaofeng??
Seeing some of the adaptations (especially the 82 LOCH), I definitely got the feeling that she was a notch above the QZ seven. i.e. one on one even with her handicap (blindness) she could beat any of them, perhaps even Ma Yu.