Which pre-novel + novel era combo represented the biggest gap in martial arts?

[PJ]

Here are some of the era combinations:

Pre-DGSD era (Pre-30 years, when Xiao Yuanshan's family got massacred) and DGSD era.

Pre-LOCH era (First Huashan Tournament) and LOCH era.

end of LOCH era and beginning of ROCH era.

Middle of HSDS era (after all of the ROCH Greats died; 40+ year old Zhang Sanfeng) and developed HSDS era (100+ year old Zhang Sanfeng)

and others./

Which era-to-era change represents the biggest gap? Here is what I think:

Pre-DGSD era and DGSD era: most of the assaulters of Xiao Yuanshan were considered First Class Fighters of the era. Reverend Zhiguang implied that Pre-30 years Zhao Qiansun would be a First Class Fighter. Now, pre-30 years Zhao Qiansun could not even take one stance from Xiao Yuanshan, and present-day Zhao Qiansun got knocked down by Qiao Feng in one stance. Pre-30 years Zhao Qiansun was probably at 50% of present-day Zhao Qiansun's level, which is probably around 50% to 75% of a present-day First Class Fighter's level (Ding Chunqiu, Murong Fu). So, pre-30 years First Class Fighter's level was roughly at 25% to 35% of present-day First Class Fighter's level. Also, Zhiguang said that Xiao Yuanshan was the absolute best under heaven 30 years ago. Xiao Yuanshan probably increased his MA by 2 fold during the next 30 years. Summary: Pre-DGSD era MA standard was about 30% of present-day DGSD standard.

Pre-LOCH to LOCH: Well, it was hard for Dugu Qiubai to find an opponent of Ren Woxing's calibre. Some of the Greats' MA had not been fully developed yet. So, Pre-LOCH era probably =~ 50% of LOCH era.

LOCH era to ROCH era - probably just a small improvement, like 10% to 20%.

Middle of HSDS to End of HSDS - this should be a big gap; Zhang Sanfeng was undefeated throughout his life, which means even when he was young he was probably undefeated/unmatched. Also Shaolin saw a huge improvement over the ROCH era.

[Felix]

Here are some of the era combinations:

Pre-DGSD era (Pre-30 years, when Xiao Yuanshan's family got massacred) and DGSD era.

Pre-LOCH era (First Huashan Tournament) and LOCH era.

end of LOCH era and beginning of ROCH era.

Middle of HSDS era (after all of the ROCH Greats died; 40+ year old Zhang Sanfeng) and developed HSDS era (100+ year old Zhang Sanfeng)

and others./

Which era-to-era change represents the biggest gap? Here is what I think:

Pre-DGSD era and DGSD era: most of the assaulters of Xiao Yuanshan were considered First Class Fighters of the era. Reverend Zhiguang implied that Pre-30 years Zhao Qiansun would be a First Class Fighter. Now, pre-30 years Zhao Qiansun could not even take one stance from Xiao Yuanshan, and present-day Zhao Qiansun got knocked down by Qiao Feng in one stance. Pre-30 years Zhao Qiansun was probably at 50% of present-day Zhao Qiansun's level, which is probably around 50% to 75% of a present-day First Class Fighter's level (Ding Chunqiu, Murong Fu). So, pre-30 years First Class Fighter's level was roughly at 25% to 35% of present-day First Class Fighter's level. Also, Zhiguang said that Xiao Yuanshan was the absolute best under heaven 30 years ago. Xiao Yuanshan probably increased his MA by 2 fold during the next 30 years. Summary: Pre-DGSD era MA standard was about 30% of present-day DGSD standard.

Pre-LOCH to LOCH: Well, it was hard for Dugu Qiubai to find an opponent of Ren Woxing's calibre. Some of the Greats' MA had not been fully developed yet. So, Pre-LOCH era probably =~ 50% of LOCH era.

LOCH era to ROCH era - probably just a small improvement, like 10% to 20%.

Middle of HSDS to End of HSDS - this should be a big gap; Zhang Sanfeng was undefeated throughout his life, which means even when he was young he was probably undefeated/unmatched. Also Shaolin saw a huge improvement over the ROCH era.

Didn't Z3F get his butt kicked by Kunlun 3 Saints? How can he still claim to be undefeated?

[sarakoth]

Didn't Z3F get his butt kicked by Kunlun 3 Saints? How can he still claim to be undefeated?

Z3F, as a young child with only very basic knowledge of martial arts but high internal energy could beat He Zudao.

I would say the 30 year gap in DGSD with the emergence of XF, XZ, and DY.

[PJ]

Didn't Z3F get his butt kicked by Kunlun 3 Saints? How can he still claim to be undefeated?

The bet was that Kunlun 3 Saints would defeat teenage Zhang Sanfeng in 10 stances or less. After 10 stances, Kunlun 3 Saints could not defeat him, so technically Zhang Sanfeng never lost.

[Felix]

The bet was that Kunlun 3 Saints would defeat teenage Zhang Sanfeng in 10 stances or less. After 10 stances, Kunlun 3 Saints could not defeat him, so technically Zhang Sanfeng never lost.

OIC. Similar to Guo Jing is no match for the two Greats at the second Mt Hua tournament, but he did not lose because the Greats were unable to beat him under 300 stances like they say they would.

So Z3F survive a time limit match, if you will, and was declared the winner.

[PJ]

but high internal energy could beat He Zudao

It was never stated or positively implied that teenage Zhang Sanfeng had superior internal energy to He Zudao. I think People are making this up in their own interpretation.

Our expert HuangYushi has provided a translation of young Zhang Sanfeng's internal description, which IMO does not suggest superiority over He Zudao's internal aspect: http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...8&postcount=85

And sarakoth, it was stated by Jin Yong that in terms of actual martial arts, Kunlun 3 Saints He Zudao was superior to young Zhang Sanfeng in the magnitude of hundreds.

[sarakoth]

It was never stated or positively implied that teenage Zhang Sanfeng had superior internal energy to He Zudao. I think People are making this up in their own interpretation.

Our expert HuangYushi has provided a translation of young Zhang Sanfeng's internal description, which IMO does not suggest superiority over He Zudao's internal aspect: http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showpost...8&postcount=85

And sarakoth, it was stated by Jin Yong that in terms of actual martial arts, Kunlun 3 Saints He Zudao was superior to young Zhang Sanfeng in the magnitude of hundreds.

Well the Z3F vs. HZD fight wasn' even in the time period in which PJ said Z3F was undefeated so why is everyone arguing over it.

OF COURSE HZD WAS BETTER THAN TEENAGE Z3F!!!!!!

[PJ]

OIC. Similar to Guo Jing is no match for the two Greats at the second Mt Hua tournament, but he did not lose because the Greats were unable to beat him under 300 stances like they say they would.

So Z3F survive a time limit match, if you will, and was declared the winner.

Yes, and in fact, Zhang Sanfeng was protected by the plot device shield. He Zudao fought using the worst strategy possible. Just like Golden Wheel Monk made the fatal mistake of competing speed with Little Dragon Girl, He Zudao chose to compete internal energy with Zhang Sanfeng. If they actually competed in more technique, Zhang Sanfeng would have lost badly. Thus the comment by the author "In the field of martial arts, it is indeed the case that He Zudao exceeded Zhang Junbao by a magnitude of hundreds. And yet, when competing internal energy, He Zudao [was not confident about his ability to overcome the opponent."

[PJ]

Well the Z3F vs. HZD fight wasn' even in the time period in which PJ said Z3F was undefeated so why is everyone arguing over it.

OF COURSE HZD WAS BETTER THAN TEENAGE Z3F!!!!!!

But in your previous post you actually proclaimed that Young Zhang Sanfeng could beat He Zudao:

Z3F, as a young child ... could beat He Zudao.

[Felix]

And sarakoth, it was stated by Jin Yong that in terms of actual martial arts, Kunlun 3 Saints He Zudao was superior to young Zhang Sanfeng in the magnitude of hundreds.

When 3 Saints say he can beat Z3F in three moves, does that mean the teenage Z3F would have beaten the teenager 3 Saints?

Oh, so my case here only suggests the internal part. The teenage 3 Saints still may be better than teenaged Z3F in the techniques part.

[sarakoth]

But in your previous post you actually proclaimed that Young Zhang Sanfeng could beat He Zudao:

Z3F, as a young child ... could beat He Zudao.

I meant the young Z3F was better than HZD at the same age.

[PJ]

I meant the young Z3F was better than HZD at the same age.

Well you failed to mention that part before, so I thought you were referring to the adult He Zudao (which is the only time we saw him in the book).

If we assume that teenage He Zudao had 50% of present-day He Zudao's internal energy and 50% of present-day He Zudao's technique, then I would say he still has a chance to defeat teenage Zhang Junbao, who only exceled in internal energy but lacked in technique. But it can go either way.