Flaw with dugu 9 swords?

[batmankiller]

why must they run on identical tracks? is the track straight or curved? if the track is curved, then perhaps B took a cut

If it was anything other that identical tracks it wouldn't be inter-spatial perception it would be logic.

Argue your way outta this one :P

[Ren Ying Ying]

If it was anything other that identical tracks it wouldn't be inter-spatial perception it would be logic.

Argue your way outta this one :P

exactly! why must you think of it as defying inter-spatial perception?
there are infinitely different routes to go from one spot to the next, how would you know exactly which route feng took and which one linghu took?

[KChill]

If you can accept lightness kung fu, you should be able to accept just about anything! Just turn off your credibility sense and enjoy the stories.

Best Post of the Thread!

[kyss of the sword]

the idea was LHC moved his sword to a position where the enemy would run into the blade when the enemy moves forward to attack. LHC was moving a shorter distance while the enemy was moving a longer distance. it was the positioning of the weapons, not the speed that was the deciding factor.

[shortsight]

while DDG9J could sound ridiculous at times, ironically, you could draw some similarities to Bruce Lee's jeet kune do philosophies. in practice, it can be done by Bruce Lee, though some might argue too that Bruce Lee himself was bull$hitting.

[CC]

the idea was LHC moved his sword to a position where the enemy would run into the blade when the enemy moves forward to attack. LHC was moving a shorter distance while the enemy was moving a longer distance. it was the positioning of the weapons, not the speed that was the deciding factor.

LHC was pointing his sword tip at Feng's _Belly_Button_.

Use your imagination on how Feng had to hold his sword in order for him to be unable to touch LHC.

[kyss of the sword]

it wasn't that feng's sword could not reach LHC, but LHC's sword would have pieced feng first, feng might not have been able to complete his strike or finish it with sufficient force to fatally harm LHC. remember that that while LHC was standing still, feng was moving back and forth to land a killer strike while avoiding LHc's blade. when two swordsman are fighting, they won't stand directly face to face. the will try to change their position during the battle to avoid the opponents blade while retaining a chance to strike. LHC's attack was just better then feng and the other sword branch elder. it's no different from ZLC thrusting his blade with great force at YBQ while YBQ used clever variations to counter without actually meeting blades.

[ChronoReverse]

Therein lies my biggest beef with Dugu Jiu Jian. It defies inter-spatial perception. If Feng had a longer sword and was sticking it straight out, surely there is no way Linghu could have placed his sword in a position** to touch Feng first (if there is, it is beyond my limited sense of inter-spatial perception to imagine this). Unless Linghu can extend his arm like Dhalsim....

You said it yourself... if... but Feng didn't.


I don't see how this is particularly hard to accept. Sword attacks are not performed with the arm stretched straight out the entire way (unlike what TVB would like us to believe). Unless you reach Gu Long levels of sword ability where nothing is wasted and the sword tip ends up precisely one inch in the opponent's throat there's definitely room to be stabbed before your stab arrives.

Anyways, this is exactly the same principle as in 9 Yang: the opponent moves then I move, thus I control the opponent.

[Ian Liew]

The only possibility I can see in this instance (for what it's worth, as there is a lot of unbelieveable stuff in XAJH's DG9J - although the manga made it look very good) is that since Feng was slashing, he was bringing his sword in sideways, while LHC was thrusting straight. There's every possibility that the thrust whould strike home before the slash, which requires hitting with the side of the blade rather than the tip.

Of course, I'm being pedantic. It's just impossible to fathom DG9J's invincibility (unless faced with inhuman speed like DFBB's).

[kwekmh]

You said it yourself... if... but Feng didn't.


I don't see how this is particularly hard to accept. Sword attacks are not performed with the arm stretched straight out the entire way (unlike what TVB would like us to believe). Unless you reach Gu Long levels of sword ability where nothing is wasted and the sword tip ends up precisely one inch in the opponent's throat there's definitely room to be stabbed before your stab arrives.

Anyways, this is exactly the same principle as in 9 Yang: the opponent moves then I move, thus I control the opponent.

So in your opinion, if the opponent decides to stab straight, will LHC still be able to break the move with DG9J?

I think so, somehow he'll manage to dodge the sword while attacking at the same time.

[bliss]

I share the same sentiments as Chrono. I don't really see this as a suspension of inter-spatial perception. Every move of Dugu 9 Jian is supposed to be a perfect counter to the opponent's moves. In this instance, Feng's slash to the back of Linghu Chong's neck is perfectly countered by Linghu Chong twisting his hand backwards and stabbing downwards towards his belly.

I mean, every move the opponent makes will put the opponent's body in a distinct position, the belly could be the forward-most part of his body at the time, and a downward backhand stab from Linghu Chong's position could be the move that would hit first and quickest. Fighters aren't always standing perfectly straight with arms outstretched. In the course of battle, fighters in mid-move will be in all sorts of positions and their hands, legs, and bodies will be situated differently. That's how I interpreted it anyway.

[ChronoReverse]

So in your opinion, if the opponent decides to stab straight, will LHC still be able to break the move with DG9J?

I think so, somehow he'll manage to dodge the sword while attacking at the same time.

That's the WHOLE POINT of what I just said. When you stab straight, you don't extend your full arm straight and then walk/run forward.

Therefore, there is PLENTY of room to get into position first assuming there are flaws in your stroke. Only Gu Long level of stabbing swordplay would leave no room at all but even then there's room for mutual-destruction.

[Han Solo]

What about this claim then:

"The enemy is stronger, therefore the DG9J is stronger"

[CC]

What about this claim then:

"The enemy is stronger, therefore the DG9J is stronger"

It ranks up there in the list of 'how literal do you want it to be' quotes from JY like the one about XF getting stronger when faced with tougher opponents/situations.

So if XF (or LOCH OYF + 4 Quanzhen) fights LHC, it creates a feedback loop which will overload and end up in a big mushroom cloud.

[PJ]

What about this claim then:

"The enemy is stronger, therefore the DG9J is stronger"

There's a fine limit to the scalability of this claim. For example it didn't automatically scale to the calibre of Dongfang Bubai b/c he was just too damn strong.

The Hu Family Sabre Techniques had a similar description in OUTER STORY OF THE FLYING FOX.

胡斐暗暗心惊，陡逢强敌，当下将生平所学尽数施展出来，刀法之得心应手实是从所未有，自己独个儿练习之时， 那有这等快法？原来他这胡家刀法精微奇奥之处甚多，不逢强敌，数招间即足取胜，其妙处不显，这时给那独臂道 人一逼，才现出刀法中的绵密精巧来。

[ChronoReverse]

Incidentally, I'm only arguing against this particular example of spatial distortion.

There were a number of other cases where what LHC did was rather far-fetched to be kind and down-right impossible to be harsh.


(Swing sword behind back without internal energy and slice off a few hands through the bones)

(30 stabs in less than one second without any internal energy)

(A single swing of the sword and striking the wrists of 8 SPEAR users)

[Ren Ying Ying]

It ranks up there in the list of 'how literal do you want it to be' quotes from JY like the one about XF getting stronger when faced with tougher opponents/situations.

So if XF (or LOCH OYF + 4 Quanzhen) fights LHC, it creates a feedback loop which will overload and end up in a big mushroom cloud.

XF couldn't quite overpower sweeper monk. LHC couldn't quite overpower DFBB.

[Han Solo]

The thing about the claim that DG9J is stronger when the opponent is stronger is that i don't like is that it makes it seems that LHC is a weak-*** when he is fighting a weaker opponent.

Han Solo

[Ren Wo Xing]

The thing about the claim that DG9J is stronger when the opponent is stronger is that i don't like is that it makes it seems that LHC is a weak-*** when he is fighting a weaker opponent.

Han Solo

No more than Xiao Feng is a weak-*** when fighting weak opponents.

[PJ]

The thing about the claim that DG9J is stronger when the opponent is stronger is that i don't like is that it makes it seems that LHC is a weak-*** when he is fighting a weaker opponent.

Well, he IS very weak. He got beaten barehanded by an old lady whose martial arts was much weaker than Ren Yingying! What a disgrace for Linghu Chong. Probably even An Fengri can beat him barehanded.