Organs for the more deserving?

[Trien Chieu]

Yea but I bet if the president needed a new heart his name would magically be on the top of the list.

He is the leader of the country so he can contribute more to his country when he is healthier. This is common sense and I have nothing against it.

[Guo Xiang]

He is the leader of the country so he can contribute more to his country when he is healthier. This is common sense and I have nothing against it.

Oh? But if the president in question is someone like Saddam Hussein or Hitler, what would you say about that?

[pemberly]

He is the leader of the country so he can contribute more to his country when he is healthier. This is common sense and I have nothing against it.

well, if the president deserves it bc he can contribute more to the country, wouldn't person B deserve it, too? because he can also contribute much more to society than person A. person A is just one man who makes a small difference. with person B's money, he can help change the lives of many. wouldn't it be "common sense" to help person B because more people will be influenced by him getting the kidney?

also, people seen to be judging person B by his morals, but all his ill deeds were in the past, and he has been in clean and sober for the past 2 years. doesn't he deserve a chance?

[Guo Xiang]

also, people seen to be judging person B by his morals, but all his ill deeds were in the past, and he has been in clean and sober for the past 2 years. doesn't he deserve a chance?

I've thought of that too... but I still prefer person A.

[PJ]

He is the leader of the country so he can contribute more to his country when he is healthier. This is common sense and I have nothing against it.

But he/she is not the ONLY person who can lead the country. Good leaders are in every corner of the cosmos now.

[oGaKirA]

He is the leader of the country so he can contribute more to his country when he is healthier. This is common sense and I have nothing against it.

A good leader looks after the welfare of his pple. He would not jump infront of the line just to save his own butt.

[pemberly]

A good leader looks after the welfare of his pple. He would not jump infront of the line just to save his own butt.

of course he would. a good leader doesn't meant he has to self sacrifice. look at all those secret service people who are supposed to take a bullet for the prez. obviously, his life is worth a lot more than a commoner's.

[Trien Chieu]

Oh? But if the president in question is someone like Saddam Hussein or Hitler, what would you say about that?

I assume he/she is a elected leader who actually care about the country, not someone like Hussien or Hitler.

[Trien Chieu]

well, if the president deserves it bc he can contribute more to the country, wouldn't person B deserve it, too? because he can also contribute much more to society than person A. person A is just one man who makes a small difference. with person B's money, he can help change the lives of many. wouldn't it be "common sense" to help person B because more people will be influenced by him getting the kidney?

also, people seen to be judging person B by his morals, but all his ill deeds were in the past, and he has been in clean and sober for the past 2 years. doesn't he deserve a chance?

Sure, Person B deserves a chance, but Person A deserves it more.

I doesn't really matter that was 2 or 30 years ago. What he had done is done. Even if Person B become someone like Terry Fox while Person A is just momma boy all his life, I still give it to Person A because at least Person A didn't done any harm to anyone.

[oGaKirA]

of course he would. a good leader doesn't meant he has to self sacrifice. look at all those secret service people who are supposed to take a bullet for the prez. obviously, his life is worth a lot more than a commoner's.

So if my Mother needed a heart and was next on the list...we should let the needy President take it first?

[Trien Chieu]

But he/she is not the ONLY person who can lead the country. Good leaders are in every corner of the cosmos now.

Can you name one politician that can lead the USA better than GWB??
I am looking for trouble here

[oGaKirA]

Here's my proposal for a fair policy.

1. First come first serve waiting list with Childrens having priority.
2. No double standards like preferred treatment for the rich/famous/important etc.

Because to be fair, we have to detach ourselves from our prejudices and emotions. Just lay down the rules and let it ride.

[Trien Chieu]

Here's my proposal for a fair policy.
1. First come first serve waiting list with Childrens having priority.

2. No double standards like preferred treatment for the rich/famous/important etc.

Because to be fair, we have to detach ourselves from our prejudices and emotions. Just lay down the rules and let it ride.

Agree on the children having priority and no double standard for the rich/famous/important but we should put criminals/alcoholic/drugAdict/ect... on the bottom of the list. These people are less deserving than other individual...

[yittz]

Here's my proposal for a fair policy.

1. First come first serve waiting list with Childrens having priority.
2. No double standards like preferred treatment for the rich/famous/important etc.

Because to be fair, we have to detach ourselves from our prejudices and emotions. Just lay down the rules and let it ride.

Yep that's how it works in real life, I think (ok partially based on watching House/Greys). Money doesn't factor into it, it's usually completely medical in terms of judgement. No body should play god - but there is a commitee I think, that decides on whether someone on critical condition should get it earlier.

Regarding drugs/alcohol - it's purely medical as well in terms of whether they going to destroy that organ again and their compliance with medications. If someone has abstained from drinking for 6months and shown signs of wanting to quit, then they can be on the liver transplant list.

[oGaKirA]

Yep that's how it works in real life, I think (ok partially based on watching House/Greys). Money doesn't factor into it, it's usually completely medical in terms of judgement. No body should play god - but there is a commitee I think, that decides on whether someone on critical condition should get it earlier.

Regarding drugs/alcohol - it's purely medical as well in terms of whether they going to destroy that organ again and their compliance with medications. If someone has abstained from drinking for 6months and shown signs of wanting to quit, then they can be on the liver transplant list.

Ok so I'll take your word for it Doc. So can you assure me that the President wont get on the V.I.P list for organs?

Excuse my ignorance but I just want peace of mind knowing this. haha

[yittz]

Ok so I'll take your word for it Doc. So can you assure me that the President wont get on the V.I.P list for organs?

Excuse my ignorance but I just want peace of mind knowing this. haha

Honestly, I am not sure. We haven't been taught much about transplant lists and the committee. Just bits and pieces about drugs, age considerations. Maybe Han Solo will visit.

Another thing is rich people can buy organs from 3rd world countries (transplant tourism). Western docs do not promote it since it goes against ethics, but can't do anything to prevent it other than advising not to.

[pemberly]

this first come, first serve thing, does it matter what hospital? say, you're on this donor waiting list, but there's organs coming into this rich neighborhood hospital 50 miles away from you. you live in a very poor neighborhood and the hospital there doesn't have any available. if you're at the top of this list, are you still first in line for any hospital or does it have to be the poor one?

[Zemery]

Purely hypothetical, say you were the director in charge of organ donations and a kidney came in that perfectly matched two people. Both are currently in the hospital right now, and the kidney would save either person's life.

Person A is an upstanding citizen. He is a special needs school teacher in an inner city school, and does charity work on the weekends. He also organizes local fundraisers for the homeless and elderly veterans. He makes $28K a year, and donates 15% of it to his religious community.

Person B used to be a raging alcoholic and a drug user. He partied all the time and was twice accused of rape, but the issues were settled out of court. He was also involved in an incident of beating a person and breaking his arm because of his race. In the last 2 years, he has been to rehab and had kicked his habits when he fell ill. He is a typical millionaire trust fund baby, and his mother is also on the hospital board. His family donates millions of dollars to the facility, and helps raise millions more. His mother has hinted that if her son does not live, she would withdraw all funding to this facility.

To whom do you give this kidney to? Do you base it on the morality of the patients or is that unfair of you to judge? Do you leave it up to chance? Which do you think would be better for society at large? on one hand, you'd be saving an honestly good human being who has tried his hardest to contribute to society. on the other, you'd continue funding for your hospital, possibly saving thousands of lives.

hurry up, you have about 2 minutes to decide! that kidney is on ice right now!

morality of the patients

[xJadedx]

For me, that would be either the first come, first serve basis, or I'd give it to the patients who followed all the rules properly for the transplant.

I'm not sure if people here watch the show Scrubs, but it had two episodes that dealt with situations like this.
In one, it was a liver transplant between a really nice guy and some mean lady, but the lady got it because she followed the rules of the transplant process, whereas the guy went and had a few drinks.
In another episode, it was between a nice poor guy and some snobby rich guy. The chief of medicine chose the rich guy, because he ended up donating a large amount of money to the hospital, which made it possible for the hospital to re-open it prenatal care for underprivileged women unit, hence allowing more people to get treatment.

[Trien Chieu]

For me, that would be either the first come, first serve basis, or I'd give it to the patients who followed all the rules properly for the transplant.

I'm not sure if people here watch the show Scrubs, but it had two episodes that dealt with situations like this.
In one, it was a liver transplant between a really nice guy and some mean lady, but the lady got it because she followed the rules of the transplant process, whereas the guy went and had a few drinks.
In another episode, it was between a nice poor guy and some snobby rich guy. The chief of medicine chose the rich guy, because he ended up donating a large amount of money to the hospital, which made it possible for the hospital to re-open it prenatal care for underprivileged women unit, hence allowing more people to get treatment.

I think following the rule is not perfect, but ok with me...
For me, I think children should be on top of the list and criminals should be on the bottom of the list, regardless how rich the criminal is...