Proposed ranking of Top 10 greatest inventors in Jin Yong universe

[CC]

Yes, Wuyazi seems to have inherited his smarts from his organization. It was said that Xiaoyao Pai has a full range of knowledge of the things he knew. There's a possibility that Wuyazi is the one who founded that knowledge, but I always have the impression that he inherited the knowledge.

But you have to be smart to inherit the smarts I guess. His disciple (Su) and his grand-disciples seemed to have only a fraction of his smarts due to lack of ability. And its quite staggering that with such a fraction, they were head and shoulders better than the rest of the field (for Dr Xue at least).

HYS's maze seems to be in the same league as WYZ's chess trap IMHO.

HYS would have made a perfect XYP disciple. Smart, suave and a total weirdo. Too bad he was born too late.

[jhudsui]

I think it's completely ridiculous that you listed Wong Chongyang as several steps better at inventing than Lin Chaoying, since the arts that Lin Chaoying invented defeated all of the arts that Wong Chongyang invented, and in order to defeat Lin Chaoying's inventions he had to resort to using someone else's stuff instead of inventing more arts of his own. That is like the very definition of losing out to someone in ability to invent martial arts.

[PJ]

I think it's completely ridiculous that you listed Wong Chongyang as several steps better at inventing than Lin Chaoying, since the arts that Lin Chaoying invented defeated all of the arts that Wong Chongyang invented

Hmm, Lin Chaoying based her martial arts on Wang Chongyang's martial arts.

I think it's easier to design a counter to something concrete, than to create something concrete from scratch.

What does the rest of forum think?

[Ken Cheng]

Hmm, Lin Chaoying based her martial arts on Wang Chongyang's martial arts.

I think it's easier to design a counter to something concrete, than to create something concrete from scratch.

What does the rest of forum think?

Yeah, I think so. To create Ancient Tomb Sect martial arts, Lam Chiu Ying basically just reverse-engineered Cheun Jen Sect martial arts and picked out its vulnerable points.

[Dennis Chen]

Wang Chongyang, ah, Wang Chongyang. Even at the bitter end, all you could think about was defeating Lin Chaoying's martial art. But the true genius of Lin Chaoying's martial art isn't that it's a counter to your own martial art. It's true expression is not in defeating you, but complementing you.

The 2 should be ranked together. I think Lin Chaoying would have wanted it that way.

[yittz]

I too think we should put them as a couple in their honour.

[Candide]

Yeah, I think so. To create Ancient Tomb Sect martial arts, Lam Chiu Ying basically just reverse-engineered Cheun Jen Sect martial arts and picked out its vulnerable points.

Plus WCY must have discussed his own martial arts with her in great depth (considering that they were very close) for her to be able to reverse-engineer it that well.

[Dennis Chen]

Literarily, I can see why Wang Chongyang could never defeat Lin Chaoying's martial art on his own. He had too much pride to believe that he could have any faults. It was also this pride that prevented him from returning Lin Chaoying's love and to reach his true martial arts potential. I can see why Leviathan once said that he would be most interested in seeing a fight between Ying/Yang and Dugu Qiubai.

[waterox]

I am wondering if the Ancient Tomb have an internal energy cultivation system as good as QZ. If not, perhaps WCY is the better inventor.....

[Ken Cheng]

I am wondering if the Ancient Tomb have an internal energy cultivation system as good as QZ.

The Ancient Tomb Sect's native internal power system was kind of so so; their strengths seemed to be swordplay and hing gung. "Power" wasn't really their strong suit.

[Tom]

What about Ode To Gallantry arts? Shouldn't it get a mention on this list?

[Felix]

What about Ode To Gallantry arts? Shouldn't it get a mention on this list?

read post #3. I don't think it was mentioned who invented Ode to Gallantry martial arts.

[Wu Wudi]

8. Guo Xiang (HSDS) -- creator of many Emei Sect martial arts; her sect became the 3rd biggest orthodox school in wulin within 50 years

This is the only one that I really don't agree with. Emei's achivements and what we know of their martial arts were far too insignificant for GX to be ranked in the top 10.

[PJ]

This is the only one that I really don't agree with. Emei's achivements and what we know of their martial arts were far too insignificant for GX to be ranked in the top 10.

Guo Xiang's grand-disciple is as good as Zhang Sanfeng's direct disciples. In HSDS, of the major schools, only Damo's descending-disciples were better.

It was suggested that in theory:

Zhang Sanfeng's arts > Emei's arts > Liangyi Swordplay > Qiankun Danuoyi

[Ian Liew]

Guo Xiang's grand-disciple is as good as Zhang Sanfeng's direct disciples. In HSDS, of the major schools, only Damo's descending-disciples were better.

It was suggested that in theory:

Zhang Sanfeng's arts > Emei's arts > Liangyi Swordplay > Qiankun Danuoyi

Why would Emei's arts exceed those of Liangyi Swordplay - Is it because of the advice Emei gave to Zhang Wuji to overcome Kunlun and Huashan? Just because Miejue and Zhou Zhiruo knew how to break the Liangyi/Reverse Liangyi formation in theory doesn't mean that they could have pulled it off with their level of martial arts. It required Zhang Wuji's skill, coupled with knowledge of the theory behind the footwork (which doesn't necessarily have to have originated from Emei anyway), to gain the advantage.

I always thought that Miejue's fearsome reputation came mainly from having an unbreakable sword as well as a merciless and ruthless streak. Emei's internal energy was pretty good because of the 1/3rd of Jiuyang which Guo Xiang got from Guoyuan, but that was hardly her creation.

[PJ]

Why would Emei's arts exceed those of Liangyi Swordplay - Is it because of the advice Emei gave to Zhang Wuji to overcome Kunlun and Huashan? Just because Miejue and Zhou Zhiruo knew how to break the Liangyi/Reverse Liangyi formation in theory doesn't mean that they could have pulled it off with their level of martial arts. It required Zhang Wuji's skill, coupled with knowledge of the theory behind the footwork (which doesn't necessarily have to have originated from Emei anyway), to gain the advantage.

I always thought that Miejue's fearsome reputation came mainly from having an unbreakable sword as well as a merciless and ruthless streak. Emei's internal energy was pretty good because of the 1/3rd of Jiuyang which Guo Xiang got from Guoyuan, but that was hardly her creation.

When they gave the advice to Zhang Wuji, Zhou Zhiruo suggested that Emei's Four Dimensional Palm (Sixiang Zhang) was slightly more sophisticated than Liangyi in theory. Presumably, this palm style was created by Guo Xiang.

[Ian Liew]

When they gave the advice to Zhang Wuji, Zhou Zhiruo suggested that Emei's Four Dimensional Palm (Sixiang Zhang) was slightly more sophisticated than Liangyi in theory. Presumably, this palm style was created by Guo Xiang.

Probably in theory only. I recall her mentioning something about Two Principles developing into the Four Dimensions, which develop into the Eight Diagrams because of the four people using Liangyi simultaneously, so the Four Dimensions by itself would be more sophisticated and have more complicated footwork than a single Liangyi practicioner, while I assume that two Liangyi practitioners (say Mr and Mrs He) would be a match for Four Dimensions, in theory. In practice, I'm not sure Miejue, without her sword, could beat Mr and Mrs He, or even He Taichong alone. So while Guo Xiang might have developed Four Dimension Palm, it might hardly have been a top-class art. How often did we see Emei disciples using their palms at all in the story? Miejue used palms thrice against Wuji, and once against Ji Xiaohu, neither of whom even moved to defend themselves. In theory, I guess... in practice, however, I'd bet on Yang Xiao's low-level Qiankun thrashing Miejue's Four Elephants any day. =)

[PJ]

Probably in theory only.

Well, I did say that:

It was suggested that in theory:

Zhang Sanfeng's arts > Emei's arts > Liangyi Swordplay > Qiankun Danuoyi

[Ian Liew]

Oh.. true that. Was it that in theory, Emei beats Liangyi, or the theory behind Emei's skill is superior, or is it that in theory, the theory behind the skill is superior?

I'd say that the theory of Emei's skills are deeper, but not necessarily more superior. We also have to take into account Emei's natural arrogance about their position in wulin.

[jackattack]

1). The Ode to Gallery Martial Arts Inventor
2). Da Mo
3). Dugu Qiubai
4). Huang Shang
5). Zhang San Feng

Also, the guy who invented the sunflower manual should be up there as well.