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Thread: Which Cult Leader did the Ming Cultists like/respect more: YDT or CMG?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Which Cult Leader did the Ming Cultists like/respect more: YDT or CMG?

    The Ming Cultists of the HSDS generation went through two leaders (not counting Yeung Siu, who became leader of the Ming Cult at the end of HSDS, but we have no idea how his reign went): Yeung Ding Teen and Cheung Mo Gei.

    Both were fine Cult Leaders, but overall, which of the two did the Ming Cultists like and respect more?

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    I would say definitely ZWJ.

    He was grandson of YTZ.
    God-son of XieXun.
    Cured WYX's long lasting problem.
    and we can forget about Dragon King lol.

    Yang Xiao/Fan Yao was said to be very impressed with ZWJ and complete subordination.YDT would receive the same, if not less.

    And his MA would draw even more awe to him from within the Sect and he reached QKDNY Level 7 ().

    And whats more, he saved Ming Sect from the brink of complete destruction.

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    Prolly ZWJ. We don't really know all that much about YDT's reign. Knowing how everyone genuinely respected ZWJ, it's hard to envision YDT having been better in that dept.

    Didn't stop Zhu Yuan Zhang from manipulating ZWJ though hehe. He dared to do what he did only because he knew he could get away with it.
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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Easily Zhang Wuji.

    Under his rule, the Ming Cult was saved, reunited, then became the biggest and most influential organization in wulin, won the respect of others - including the orthodox schools - and spearheaded the rebellions to drive the Mongol invaders out. The Cult was in every way better than it was under YDT's rule. Ming Cultists all shared that thought. It was mentioned in a few chapters, one was the Great Moon Festival they had before splitting up.
    "Anything you can't say NO to is your MASTER, and you are its SLAVE."

    "I disapprove of what I say, but I will defend to the death my right to say it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by flyingfox2002 View Post
    Didn't stop Zhu Yuan Zhang from manipulating ZWJ though hehe. He dared to do what he did only because he knew he could get away with it.
    Zhu Yuanzhang only rebelled as Ming Sect is not powerful and the rebellion would actually do something for him. Under YDT, if he rebelled, what is he looking for? Position of Sect Leader? No one in the Sect would want that weakling. But at this stage, Ming Sect is in the need for an emperor, not a warrior.

    That said, the traits of ZWJ gave Zhu Yuanzhang the weakness to exploit. (YDT would have probably pwned him right there if he was tied up and listened to Zhu Yuanzhang behind the door.)

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    I would guess that the Ming Cultists respect Yang Dingtian more, but they like Zhang Wuji more.

    ZWJ seems to be a leader that is close to his subordinates, sharing weal and woe with them, treating them as equals.

    While YDT probably was a guy who was able to curb the 6 Herald/Guardian Lords' eccentricity due to his strong leadership qualities and man-handling skills, which would probably enable him to gain respect from the Ming Cultists.
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    I definitely think they respect ZWJ more.

    YDT was given the role of leadership from the previous leader.

    ZWJ though was voted upon by others (sort of). YDT was the leader, don't like it, too bad. But for ZWJ, every big name person in the cult was ok with it.

    Similarly, like how ZWJ passed on the leadership to Yang Xiao, I am pretty sure most people still respect ZWJ more than YX.

    Had Xie Xun taken over the leadership, he too, would not have got much respect compared to ZWJ.

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    Easily ZWJ because he saved them from extinction on Brightness Peak.

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    Initially YDT is more respected and also feared by all of his subordinates, but in my opinion he is more like a boss than leader. A good leader will not leave behind his subordinate for personal problems (even until death) and after that the ming cult become mediocre. he is also made to many enemies so after he died, all of the pugilist come after his subordinates and killed them.

    The other side, ZWJ is gained his respect by rescuing ming cult from catastrophe and also he is the grand children of Yin TianZhen and son of Golden hair Lion. In his era, Ming Cult is gained more reputable in wulin than in YDT era, kicked out Mongols and build new Dynasty .
    The problem is ZWJ is not feared by his subordinates, for his kindhearted, especially by Zhu Yuan Zhang. It is also could be debated, in YDT era, ZYZ might be just a rookie or even not yet join Ming Cult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St3v3 View Post
    Initially YDT is more respected and also feared by all of his subordinates, but in my opinion he is more like a boss than leader. A good leader will not leave behind his subordinate for personal problems (even until death) and after that the ming cult become mediocre. he is also made to many enemies so after he died, all of the pugilist come after his subordinates and killed them.
    isn't that what ZWJ did at end? chose the love of his life, the Mongolian princess, and ride off to the sunset with her, instead of continuing to lead his band of brothers. Never saw ZWJ as a great leader, I think JY said himself that ZWJ was a weak decision maker, even wavering back and forth between the 4 ladies in his life. He was a gifted, kind, and honest martial art prodigy that was beloved by his followers, but I don't think necessarily respected as the previous ming cult leader.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metsrus View Post
    isn't that what ZWJ did at end? chose the love of his life, the Mongolian princess, and ride off to the sunset with her, instead of continuing to lead his band of brothers. Never saw ZWJ as a great leader, I think JY said himself that ZWJ was a weak decision maker, even wavering back and forth between the 4 ladies in his life. He was a gifted, kind, and honest martial art prodigy that was beloved by his followers, but I don't think necessarily respected as the previous ming cult leader.
    That's why I wrote the problem is ZWJ subordinate is not fear of him because they know if they betray him, they will not die. YDT on the other hand is better in decision making, more strict to his subordinate, but the problem is he is making too much enemies outside, so that Ming Cult got a lot of problems

    The different with ZWJ is he is go after Han could kick out Mongolians, therefore they don't need MIng Cult any longer. They need a king and established government, and ZWJ has no desire and talent to do it.Zhu Yuan Zhang did, but in order to get his position, he need to push ZWJ out from Ming Cult. If YDT in this situation, i'm afraid Zhu Yuan Zhang had no chance.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by St3v3 View Post
    Initially YDT is more respected and also feared by all of his subordinates, but in my opinion he is more like a boss than leader. A good leader will not leave behind his subordinate for personal problems (even until death) and after that the ming cult become mediocre. he is also made to many enemies so after he died, all of the pugilist come after his subordinates and killed them.

    The other side, ZWJ is gained his respect by rescuing ming cult from catastrophe and also he is the grand children of Yin TianZhen and son of Golden hair Lion. In his era, Ming Cult is gained more reputable in wulin than in YDT era, kicked out Mongols and build new Dynasty .
    The problem is ZWJ is not feared by his subordinates, for his kindhearted, especially by Zhu Yuan Zhang. It is also could be debated, in YDT era, ZYZ might be just a rookie or even not yet join Ming Cult.
    Can't really blame YDT for what happened. He had a fire deviation when he found out about his wife adultery and he did leave a will hoping that his wife would deliver it to the cult. There was no way he could have known his wife would kill herself before reading the will.

    YDT's feud with Du'e was orchestrated by Cheng Kun, and Cheng Kun plots were so deep that he had the beggars guild, the six main schools and the Ming Cult dancing to his tune, so we can't really blame YDT for falling into it either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by metsrus View Post
    isn't that what ZWJ did at end? chose the love of his life, the Mongolian princess, and ride off to the sunset with her, instead of continuing to lead his band of brothers. Never saw ZWJ as a great leader, I think JY said himself that ZWJ was a weak decision maker, even wavering back and forth between the 4 ladies in his life. He was a gifted, kind, and honest martial art prodigy that was beloved by his followers, but I don't think necessarily respected as the previous ming cult leader.
    Cheung Mo Gei was the right man for the situation at the time. The Ming Cult had talented, charismatic figures aplenty, but many of them had huge egos and couldn't get along with each other. The secret of Cheung Mo Gei's leadership success was that he had everyone's respect and they would set aside their egos and work together out of deference to him. Nobody else could have pulled this off.

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