Did Cheung Mo Gei make himself obsolete by doing too good a job as Ming Cult Leader?

[Ken Cheng]

Cheung Mo Gei might have been the greatest leader the Ming Cult ever had. In the span of a few short years, Cheung Mo Gei reunified the long fractured cult, completely transformed its reputation and status from hated and feared "demon" cult to admired and respected leading wulin sect, and won numerous glories for the cult.

Ironically, did Cheung Mo Gei's excellent work as Ming Cult Leader make his personal importance in this position obsolete?

When the Ming Cult members first urged Cheung Mo Gei to be their leader, he was precisely the man that the cult needed at its head: a man who was courageous, compassionate, wise, fair, powerful, and widely respected. During the entire period when the Ming Cult was emerging from decades of hostility with the mainstream sects of wulin, Cheung Mo Gei's combination of characteristics made him the ideal person to shepherd the Ming Cult through this difficult process.

But in succeeding, did Cheung Mo Gei become obsolete? By the time that Cheung Mo Gei gave up leadership of the Ming Cult, it seemed that he was no longer the right man to lead the cult as its status in wulin (and society at large) continued to evolve and change. As great a leader as Cheung Mo Gei was, he was not the leader they needed for their future. The later Ming Cult needed someone more ruthless and authoritarian to see it through its ultimate goal of overthrowing the Mongols, someone like...Chu Yeun Cheung.

[flamer]

Despite that, i dont think that Ming Cult members will remove him from the leader spot. They loved and respected him too much and although his personality and traits do not really fit the new role of Ming Sect, they will keep him there for as long as ZWJ wanted. This is also why Zhu Yuanzhang had to use his tricks to get rid of ZWJ, instead of just appealing logically to the Ming Sect members.

[Trien Chieu]

This is also why Zhu Yuanzhang had to use his tricks to get rid of ZWJ, instead of just appealing logically to the Ming Sect members.

What did Chu Yeun Cheung do to get rid of Cheung Mo Gei??
Even though less popular, but I agree with Ken Cheng that Chu Yeun Cheung is a leader that the Ming Cult needed to overthrow the mongols. I don't think Cheung Mo Gei will ever able to over throw the mongol. The fact that he refuge to kill Chiu Min, that further proof that Cheung Mo Gei is not a leader that they needed at that time. Cheung Mo Gei is a better friend, better lover, and better person but Chu Yeun Cheung is a better leader to overthrow the mongols...

[CC]

[QUOTE=Ken Cheng;807610]Ironically, did Cheung Mo Gei's excellent work as Ming Cult Leader make his personal importance in this position obsolete?

QUOTE]

That is exactly what ZWJ wanted. Clean up Ming Cult and be gone. He never wanted to hang around and be Sect Head.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I disagree; it was the opposite which caused the disintegration; namely, the failure of leadership and oversight which allowed the 'jianghu' and the 'juntuan' parts of the Ming sect, ie the 'hero' side and the 'army' side to grow apart and become distinct from each other, which eventually is what allowed Zhu Yuanzhang to take over the Yuan and eradicate the Ming sect.

[flamer]

What did Chu Yeun Cheung do to get rid of Cheung Mo Gei??

。朱元璋反而假仁假义，一定不允，直至徐常二人说至再
三，方勉强许可。他将张无忌与赵敏囚在邻室，料得以他武功，要崩坏身上绳索自是举手之
劳，生怕他脱缚后前来寻仇，与徐常说了这番话后，立即躲起。张无忌一去，朱元璋便命廖
永忠将韩林儿沉入河中浸死。这一箭双雕之计，竟是不露破绽。

Basically that part... To use CYC and YD to make ZWJ be disappointed
with Ming Sect etc etc...

[flyingfox2002]

I disagree; it was the opposite which caused the disintegration; namely, the failure of leadership and oversight which allowed the 'jianghu' and the 'juntuan' parts of the Ming sect, ie the 'hero' side and the 'army' side to grow apart and become distinct from each other, which eventually is what allowed Zhu Yuanzhang to take over the Yuan and eradicate the Ming sect.

Agreed. ZWJ was an ungifted leader. After his impressive display at Brilliance Peak, he was crap. He was riding the clouds, and the stab from Zhou Zhi Ruo brought him crashing down and he never recovered as a character. He was a puppet, to be used and manipulated, by everyone with half a brain. He has to take tons of responsibility for the deaths of his brethren as Zhu Yuan Zhang cleansed the Ming Sect of any potential threats after becoming emperor.

I like to think that ZZR and ZYZ conspired to trick and kill ZWJ after HSDS, but that's just wishful thinking perhaps.