How *much* better was Dook Goo Kau Bai than the ROCH Greats?

[Ken Cheng]

Assuming that everything that Dook Goo Kau Bai claimed about himself was true, just how much higher were his martial arts than those of the ROCH Greats? If he could have fought any one of the ROCH Greats, would it be one slash and over (as usual), or would the Great actually give him a good enough fight that Dook Goo would say, "Well, I'm disappointed that I won again, but this guy was *good*! He gave me one hell of a challenge and I seldom ever experience a fight this interesting!"

[Linda]

why would you take it from ROCH? when i would have taken it from before when the 5 greats where alive and well.

less then half way through ROCH 3 of the 5 greats had died.

its slim pickings after tat.

unless ur talking about the new greats?

[flamer]

I find it hard to believe ROCH Greats can be demolished in 1 stance or so.

But then Sweeper Monk came along.

[Ken Cheng]

why would you take it from ROCH? when i would have taken it from before when the 5 greats where alive and well.

less then half way through ROCH 3 of the 5 greats had died.

its slim pickings after tat.

unless ur talking about the new greats?

During LOCH, the Greats were weaker than they would be during ROCH.

Some believe that they might have been only a quarter as strong in LOCH as they were by the time that ROCH ended.

[Linda]

but the dead ones are of no use. if we're saying that they are all alive and well mantaining their level of awesomness then ok.

but wat about ZBT's martial arts brother, the one i can never remember the name of. he's been dead a while. would you consider him still a great worthy of a fight?

[Ken Cheng]

but the dead ones are of no use. if we're saying that they are all alive and well mantaining their level of awesomness then ok.

We have to take the Greats we had at the end of ROCH. It's useless to include the dead Hung 7 Gung and Au Yeung Fung because we don't know how much their martial arts might or might not have improved had they lived. The fact is that their surviving fellow Greats had 16+ more years to improve (and improve they did, all of them) while Hung 7 Gung and Au Yeung Fung obviously did not (because dead men don't train/improve their martial arts).

but wat about ZBT's martial arts brother, the one i can never remember the name of. he's been dead a while. would you consider him still a great worthy of a fight?

Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung (Dennis Chen is going to pass out when he reads that you don't even remember the poor guy's name).

It's hard to say: at one point in time, he was the most powerful of that generation of Greats, but he died much earlier than any of the others did, so his development came to an end the soonest.

[Linda]

so ur taking the greats as settled by the heroes at the end of ROCH.

would tat include XLN and HR?

come to think of it. in the latest edition, were they still included like the first edition?

[Ken Cheng]

would tat include XLN and HR?

Probably not. They were the two most powerful women in the world at the end of ROCH, but each of them was still much weaker than any of the men (sexist, yes, but that's wuxia for you).

If it's uncertain that any of the men can give Dook Goo Kau Bai a decent challenge, then the two women definitely won't.

[Linda]

sexist!

i forgot. feminism only happened in the wat..70's?

tats a gud 1000 years or so after wuxia era.

i don't think HR or XLN would be much of a challenge. if they were to go against their spouse...ofcourse their spouse would lose. but in an all out fight they'll be no match.

[flamer]

Funny how YG thought XLN will be better than him post-16 under Southern Sea Nun. He must've believed a WOMAN can be quite good, much better than him in fact.

[wuyuejin]

Dugu = 150% Guo Jing et al.

[tape]

I've always been a Dugu supporter but I'd agree that hes somewhere around 150% or so of the Greats/GJ/YG. I can't imagine anyone being near Sweeper honestly, and I really can't imagine people being too much stronger than the Greats/Qiao Feng etc. I just imagine him to be the strongest fighter JY created outside of Sweeper, so whatever his level is in comparison to the Greats would be dependant on the levels of the few that are likely stronger than the Greats (Shi Potian, Wuyazi, possibly DFBB). I believe he's supposed to be stronger than all of them, so if they're 200% of the Greats, I'd place him like 250% or something of that sort.

However I do think there's a decent chance that Xu Zhu/Duan Yu might well be stronger than Dugu, but I don't really consider them since they kind of cheated to get there.

[Ken Cheng]

Funny how YG thought XLN will be better than him post-16 under Southern Sea Nun. He must've believed a WOMAN can be quite good, much better than him in fact.

The way Wong Yung sold the Southern Seas Nun to Yeung Gor, the nun was practically supernatural.

[Dennis Chen]

We all know that the only 2 undefeated people that never appear in the Condor Trilogy are DGQB and WCY.

[Ren Wo Xing]

As I think we discussed before, Dugu Qiubai is meant to be the ultimate embodiment of DAOIST martial arts, just like how Sweeper Monk is supposed to be the ultimate embodiment of BUDDHIST martial arts. I honestly consider them to be two sides of the same coin, 半斤八两.

[flamer]

The way Wong Yung sold the Southern Seas Nun to Yeung Gor, the nun was practically supernatural.

But it also shows that YG thought it was likely for a WOMAN to reach such a high level. No discrimination there.

[flamer]

As I think we discussed before, Dugu Qiubai is meant to be the ultimate embodiment of DAOIST martial arts, just like how Sweeper Monk is supposed to be the ultimate embodiment of BUDDHIST martial arts. I honestly consider them to be two sides of the same coin, 半斤八两.

The fact that he used a sword, even at no-sword stage, makes me think he<Sweeper Monk.

[sarakoth]

Well, assuming that DGQB lived to be around 100, and YG only reached around the level of him when he was 40-ish, I'd say the difference is significant like . . . say . . between MCF and the Greats.

[PJ]

Well, assuming that DGQB lived to be around 100, and YG only reached around the level of him when he was 40-ish, I'd say the difference is significant like . . . say . . between MCF and the Greats.

Assuming Yang Guo lived to be around 100, and the 36 year old him was already at the level of 40 year old Dugu Qiubai, I'd say Yang Guo @ 100 > Dugu Qiubai @ 100.

[sarakoth]

Assuming Yang Guo lived to be around 100, and the 36 year old him was already at the level of 40 year old Dugu Qiubai, I'd say Yang Guo @ 100 > Dugu Qiubai @ 100.

Well, YG probably didn't keep on practicing and delve deeper into the mysteries of swordplay. He'd rather spend time with Gugu.

The other ROCH Greats would all be dead rather soon.