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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Default Postmodernism

    Sigh. I'm supposed to write a short essay on it, about my understanding of the term 'postmodernism'. But I don't really know what it's all about, and wiki's entry is too messed up.

    Anyone, help, please?
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    IIRC modernism is the approach that form is everything, and themes and whatnot can go hang as long as the artist concentrates on the form. Postmodernism says that the idea itself of art is art in itself. So an otherwise mundane piece that makes the viewer ponder art is, by virtue of this act of provocation, art. There are further explorations into each movement by individual authors, and there are branches that may deviate or even contradict the main thrust, but these are the main directions of modernism and postmodernism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    IIRC modernism is the approach that form is everything, and themes and whatnot can go hang as long as the artist concentrates on the form. Postmodernism says that the idea itself of art is art in itself. So an otherwise mundane piece that makes the viewer ponder art is, by virtue of this act of provocation, art. There are further explorations into each movement by individual authors, and there are branches that may deviate or even contradict the main thrust, but these are the main directions of modernism and postmodernism.
    That's a darned fine summation of postmodernist art theory, pannonian.
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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    In which context are you talking about- painting? dramatic art? cinema? writing?

    They all have their post-modernism movement which have some similarity but lots of unique features and protagonist to each movement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
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    perhaps looking for a few examples and how they apply to post-modernism would be more helpful?
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    Let's break up the word; it should help.

    Post = after, as Pre = before.

    Postmodernism = after modernism.

    Some suggestions to interpretation of modernism: Modernize, modern. What is your understanding to the world "Modern"?

    That's my attempt to the understanding of Postmodernism. Correct me, if I'm wrong.

    As for the subject to go with post-modernism, up to you to choose. (as mentioned by Dr. Han) Unless it's post-mortem, I think that's for the doktors to answer.

    I reckon the objective of your lecturer could be, wanting the students to spread their creative "mushrooms"? Exercise the creative side of the brain, that is.

    Your objective is to write an essay of Postmodernism but, you need to understand what it means before you write. Til you learn of the meaning, you need to choose a subject to talk about its Postmodernism.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    IIRC modernism is the approach that form is everything, and themes and whatnot can go hang as long as the artist concentrates on the form. Postmodernism says that the idea itself of art is art in itself. So an otherwise mundane piece that makes the viewer ponder art is, by virtue of this act of provocation, art. There are further explorations into each movement by individual authors, and there are branches that may deviate or even contradict the main thrust, but these are the main directions of modernism and postmodernism.
    So... profound.

    Is this a complicated way or saying that postmodernism = anything goes (according to your own interpretation on what is art)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    So... profound.

    Is this a complicated way or saying that postmodernism = anything goes (according to your own interpretation on what is art)?
    According to traditionalists, that' what postmodernism is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    According to traditionalists, that' what postmodernism is.

    Duchamp's urinal tops art survey
    1917 is nowhere near the era for postmodernism in art though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    1917 is nowhere near the era for postmodernism in art though.

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    One can break the schools of thought down by time, or one can break them down by ideas. Duchamp's Fountain is clearly a seminal piece in the development of the postmodernist school of art, one which became popularised by the likes of Andy Warhol. If one wants to classify by time, one can call it proto-postmodernist (forerunner to postmodernist), but there is nothing proto- about its ideas.

    The New York Dadaists stirred controversy about Fountain and its being hidden from view in the second issue of The Blind Man which included a photo of the piece and a letter by Alfred Stieglitz, and writings by Beatrice Wood and Arensberg. The text accompanying the photograph made a claim crucial to much later modern art:

    Whether Mr Mutt made the fountain with his own hands or not has no importance. He CHOSE it. He took an article of life, placed it so that its useful significance disappeared under the new title and point of view – created a new thought for that object.

    In defense of the work being art, Wood also wrote: "The only works of art America has given are her plumbing and her bridges." Duchamp described his purpose with the piece as shifting the focus of art from physical craft to intellectual interpretation.

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    "Anything goes" is a nice way of putting it...;-)

    And I guess that one thing about postmodernism that can't be accentuated enough is how it relativizes stuff. It's not that the content or the message doesn't matter. It's the fact that *everything* can be questioned, deconstructed and challenged. Postmodernism is - to a great extent - about dissolution of clear-cut distinctions, categories and boundaries. The relative superficiality and accent on form is a result of the postmodern "crisis of faith" in universal truths or values.
    In a way - postmodernism can be a very nihilistic thing...:-)
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    I've completed my essay. If anyone is interested in reading, feel free to click on the spoiler tag. Looks like a piece of shet to me though.

    click to show/hide spoilers
    Postmodernism literally means ‘after modernism’. The modernism refers to the modernist movements during late nineteenth and early twentieth century. The reforms involve an array of culture including arts, music, and architecture.

    ‘O’Donnell (2003, p. 6) said that postmodernism is concerned with non-linear, expressive and supra-rational discourses that have been marginalised and atrophied under the influence of the Enlightenment’.

    All these may refer to the spirit of postmodernism itself, whereby people rebel against/reject the normal concept and structure of how things should be. New ideas and concept are implemented, moving away from the standard structure, thus becoming ‘postmodernism’ in form.

    Postmodernism is also a concept that empowers people, allowing them to create, improve and reshape as they wish without restrictions (Berman 1983, p. 16). For people that hate to remain in status quo, postmodernism gives them the chance to shift away from the norms and be free from creativity shackles. In postmodernism concept, standard art and traditions may be repulsed by modernists as they consider it to be outdated and should have long been phased out.

    Modernists believe that moving away from the norms would allow them to delve deeper into creativity, therefore delivering more new and original art.

    The problem of postmodernism is that it cannot be easily defined, and that nobody is sure whether it even exists in the first place (Jameson, p. 55). Postmodernism by its definition, could stretch from anywhere, as even graffiti could be considered as postmodernism. The alteration of any existing or traditional concepts could also be counted as postmodernism. For example, the Scottish bhangra group Tigerstyle’s “Nachna Ondei Ne” is a bhangra remix of Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean”; the addition of a mustache on replicate paintings of Leonardo da Vinci’s “Mona Lisa”; giving a new meaning to song lyrics or poems – all these could be considered as postmodernism.

    Due to the changing nature of postmodernism, it can also be argued that the concept encourages deviant behaviour negatively and may even be considered as nihilistic. The idea revolves around change, destruction and reconstruction, which could be a double-edged sword. Can the change, destruction, and reconstruction of social and moral values be attributed to postmodernism? If a person cuts “Mona Lisa” and pieced it up randomly, resulting to the classic gaining an entirely new look, it is certainly postmodernism art. But can, and should such behaviour be tolerated? Another question is that is there any meaning to postmodernism as it has zero or little value to society. The idea is that the rejection of norms could lead to violent reactions that lead to irreversible situations.

    According to Hicks (2004, p. 20), postmodern debates display a paradoxical nature as abstract themes of relativism and egalitarianism are thrown about – there is no right or wrong way to interpret a text or nature as all interpretations are equally valid.

    In simpler terms, postmodernism means ‘anything goes, according to your own interpretation on what is art’. The content and message does not matter, as everything, and anything can be questioned, dismantled and reconstructed.

    Kevin O’Donnell 2003, Postmodernism, Lion
    Marshall Berman 1983, All that is Solid Melts Into Air: The Experience of Modernity, Verso
    Fredric Jameson 1992, Postmodernism, Or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism, Duke University Press
    Stephen R. C. Hicks 2004, Explaining Postmodernism, Scholargy Publishing
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    I've completed my essay. If anyone is interested in reading, feel free to click on the spoiler tag. Looks like a piece of shet to me though.

    click to show/hide spoilers
    Postmodernism literally means ‘after modernism’. The modernism refers to the modernist movements during late nineteenth and early twentieth century. The reforms involve an array of culture including arts, music, and architecture.

    ‘O’Donnell (2003, p. 6) said that postmodernism is concerned with non-linear, expressive and supra-rational discourses that have been marginalised and atrophied under the influence of the Enlightenment’.

    All these may refer to the spirit of postmodernism itself, whereby people rebel against/reject the normal concept and structure of how things should be. New ideas and concept are implemented, moving away from the standard structure, thus becoming ‘postmodernism’ in form.

    Postmodernism is also a concept that empowers people, allowing them to create, improve and reshape as they wish without restrictions (Berman 1983, p. 16). For people that hate to remain in status quo, postmodernism gives them the chance to shift away from the norms and be free from creativity shackles. In postmodernism concept, standard art and traditions may be repulsed by modernists as they consider it to be outdated and should have long been phased out.

    Modernists believe that moving away from the norms would allow them to delve deeper into creativity, therefore delivering more new and original art.

    The problem of postmodernism is that it cannot be easily defined, and that nobody is sure whether it even exists in the first place (Jameson, p. 55). Postmodernism by its definition, could stretch from anywhere, as even graffiti could be considered as postmodernism. The alteration of any existing or traditional concepts could also be counted as postmodernism. For example, the Scottish bhangra group Tigerstyle’s “Nachna Ondei Ne” is a bhangra remix of Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean”; the addition of a mustache on replicate paintings of Leonardo da Vinci’s “Mona Lisa”; giving a new meaning to song lyrics or poems – all these could be considered as postmodernism.

    Due to the changing nature of postmodernism, it can also be argued that the concept encourages deviant behaviour negatively and may even be considered as nihilistic. The idea revolves around change, destruction and reconstruction, which could be a double-edged sword. Can the change, destruction, and reconstruction of social and moral values be attributed to postmodernism? If a person cuts “Mona Lisa” and pieced it up randomly, resulting to the classic gaining an entirely new look, it is certainly postmodernism art. But can, and should such behaviour be tolerated? Another question is that is there any meaning to postmodernism as it has zero or little value to society. The idea is that the rejection of norms could lead to violent reactions that lead to irreversible situations.

    According to Hicks (2004, p. 20), postmodern debates display a paradoxical nature as abstract themes of relativism and egalitarianism are thrown about – there is no right or wrong way to interpret a text or nature as all interpretations are equally valid.

    In simpler terms, postmodernism means ‘anything goes, according to your own interpretation on what is art’. The content and message does not matter, as everything, and anything can be questioned, dismantled and reconstructed.

    Kevin O’Donnell 2003, Postmodernism, Lion
    Marshall Berman 1983, All that is Solid Melts Into Air: The Experience of Modernity, Verso
    Fredric Jameson 1992, Postmodernism, Or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism, Duke University Press
    Stephen R. C. Hicks 2004, Explaining Postmodernism, Scholargy Publishing
    That looks like an introduction rather than a full essay.

    How many word limits are there?

    Do you think that your essay can be augmented with more examples and then explain the significance of these examples? for example, the first pieces of certain postmodern waves can be used to describes the various trends that emerges after that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Postmodernists are well known for producing works with really big vocabularies that nobody understand. Sorta like modern accounting practice at investment banks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guo Xiang View Post
    I've completed my essay. If anyone is interested in reading, feel free to click on the spoiler tag. Looks like a piece of shet to me though.

    click to show/hide spoilers
    Postmodernism literally means ‘after modernism’. The modernism refers to the modernist movements during late nineteenth and early twentieth century. The reforms involve an array of culture including arts, music, and architecture.

    ‘O’Donnell (2003, p. 6) said that postmodernism is concerned with non-linear, expressive and supra-rational discourses that have been marginalised and atrophied under the influence of the Enlightenment’.

    All these may refer to the spirit of postmodernism itself, whereby people rebel against/reject the normal concept and structure of how things should be. New ideas and concept are implemented, moving away from the standard structure, thus becoming ‘postmodernism’ in form.

    Postmodernism is also a concept that empowers people, allowing them to create, improve and reshape as they wish without restrictions (Berman 1983, p. 16). For people that hate to remain in status quo, postmodernism gives them the chance to shift away from the norms and be free from creativity shackles. In postmodernism concept, standard art and traditions may be repulsed by modernists as they consider it to be outdated and should have long been phased out.

    Modernists believe that moving away from the norms would allow them to delve deeper into creativity, therefore delivering more new and original art.

    The problem of postmodernism is that it cannot be easily defined, and that nobody is sure whether it even exists in the first place (Jameson, p. 55). Postmodernism by its definition, could stretch from anywhere, as even graffiti could be considered as postmodernism. The alteration of any existing or traditional concepts could also be counted as postmodernism. For example, the Scottish bhangra group Tigerstyle’s “Nachna Ondei Ne” is a bhangra remix of Michael Jackson’s “Billie Jean”; the addition of a mustache on replicate paintings of Leonardo da Vinci’s “Mona Lisa”; giving a new meaning to song lyrics or poems – all these could be considered as postmodernism.

    Due to the changing nature of postmodernism, it can also be argued that the concept encourages deviant behaviour negatively and may even be considered as nihilistic. The idea revolves around change, destruction and reconstruction, which could be a double-edged sword. Can the change, destruction, and reconstruction of social and moral values be attributed to postmodernism? If a person cuts “Mona Lisa” and pieced it up randomly, resulting to the classic gaining an entirely new look, it is certainly postmodernism art. But can, and should such behaviour be tolerated? Another question is that is there any meaning to postmodernism as it has zero or little value to society. The idea is that the rejection of norms could lead to violent reactions that lead to irreversible situations.

    According to Hicks (2004, p. 20), postmodern debates display a paradoxical nature as abstract themes of relativism and egalitarianism are thrown about – there is no right or wrong way to interpret a text or nature as all interpretations are equally valid.

    In simpler terms, postmodernism means ‘anything goes, according to your own interpretation on what is art’. The content and message does not matter, as everything, and anything can be questioned, dismantled and reconstructed.

    Kevin O’Donnell 2003, Postmodernism, Lion
    Marshall Berman 1983, All that is Solid Melts Into Air: The Experience of Modernity, Verso
    Fredric Jameson 1992, Postmodernism, Or, the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism, Duke University Press
    Stephen R. C. Hicks 2004, Explaining Postmodernism, Scholargy Publishing
    i think u need more analysis, like what u think about it and stuff but looks good so far
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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    That looks like an introduction rather than a full essay.

    How many word limits are there?

    Do you think that your essay can be augmented with more examples and then explain the significance of these examples? for example, the first pieces of certain postmodern waves can be used to describes the various trends that emerges after that.

    Han Solo
    500. That piece of shet I did was 503 words, and I struggled to get there. The reason why it looks repetitive and etc. is because I don't know what else to write for it. The question is 'a summary of your understanding on postmodernism'.
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    if it was me I'd just draw some stupid drawing. Your teacher will understand :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by KeongJai View Post
    if it was me I'd just draw some stupid drawing. Your teacher will understand :P
    Hahaha, if only I could do that!
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeongJai View Post
    if it was me I'd just draw some stupid drawing. Your teacher will understand :P
    When the time comes to hand in the homework, walk over and hand in empty air. Then go back and sit down. Then walk over again and hand in the homework. Then go back and sit down. Say it's performance art, and call it something like "On the Possibility of Nothingness". Charge your classmates for watching it.

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