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Thread: Zuo Lengchan Freezing Breath VS Wei Yixiao ice attack

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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Default Zuo Lengchan Freezing Breath VS Wei Yixiao ice attack

    I was wondering are those 2 techniques the same or different and which is stronger?

    Also wasn't RWX Star-Sucking Skill same as BMSG and the other called Hua Gong Da Fa?
    Last edited by aniking_8; 03-24-09 at 10:16 PM.

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    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aniking_8 View Post
    Also wasn't RWX Star-Sucking Skill same as BMSG and the other called Hua Gong Da Fa?
    I don't know what Hua Gong Da Fa is, but I just started watching DGSD 2003 and was wondering if the skill Duan Yu learns - is that BMSG? - is the same as or very similar to Ren Woxing's Xi Xing Da Fa. DGSD is set a long time before XAJH, so they could be the same, just with different names. But there didn't seem to be anything in the manual Duan Yu read about the energies he would absorb turning on him and harming him if he didn't find a way to release them, which was the big problem with Xi Xing Da Fa.

    On a slight tangent from that question, I've been wondering what relationship, if any, there is between the Evil Cult in XAJH and the Ming Cult in HSDS. Even though the Evil Cult people aren't Persian fire-worshippers, there seem to be a lot of similarities between the two groups, especially in the titles used for positions of status. Xiang Wentian is Left Protector of the Evil Cult, just like Yang Xiao is of the Ming Cult. Since XAJH is set three or four hundred years after HSDS, it's possible the Ming Cult could have evolved into the Evil Cult over time.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

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    Junior Member yaataa's Avatar
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    the technique duan yu learn is in fact BMSG and hua gong da fa is the energy sucking technique that ding chun qiu uses which is an incomplete version of BMSG
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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Xixing Da Fa is an incomplete version of Beiming Shengong, as stated in 3rd edition XAJH. The general consensus is that XXDF is more 'forceful' than BMSG in its absorptive strength, but it lacks the way to 'merge' energy streams into a whole as BMSG did, eventually causing internal damage to the user.

    It is also generally understood that the Sun Moon sect is the descendant of the Ming sect; you will note that when you put the characters 'Sun' 日 and 'Moon' 月 together, you get the character 'Ming' 明. It's also generally understood that XAJH is placed sometime during the 'Ming' dynasty. Most likely, it was formed by the remnants of the Ming sect who were crushed by Zhu Yuanzhang in his grab for power.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniffles View Post
    I don't know what Hua Gong Da Fa is, but I just started watching DGSD 2003 and was wondering if the skill Duan Yu learns - is that BMSG? - is the same as or very similar to Ren Woxing's Xi Xing Da Fa.
    Hua Gong Da Fa is the bastardised version of Bei Ming Shen Gong, created by Ding Chunqiu. It sucks energy, but the user can't use the energy, as it disappears into the ground or something - Li Qiushui looked down on the technique as wasteful and a pale imitation of the original.

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    Senior Member sniffles's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Xixing Da Fa is an incomplete version of Beiming Shengong, as stated in 3rd edition XAJH. The general consensus is that XXDF is more 'forceful' than BMSG in its absorptive strength, but it lacks the way to 'merge' energy streams into a whole as BMSG did, eventually causing internal damage to the user.

    It is also generally understood that the Sun Moon sect is the descendant of the Ming sect; you will note that when you put the characters 'Sun' 日 and 'Moon' 月 together, you get the character 'Ming' 明. It's also generally understood that XAJH is placed sometime during the 'Ming' dynasty. Most likely, it was formed by the remnants of the Ming sect who were crushed by Zhu Yuanzhang in his grab for power.
    Thanks, RWX! I thought that might be the case but hadn't run across anything that clarified it for me.
    你看这些云彩,聚了又散,散了又聚,人生离合也是一样。

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Hua Gong Da Fa is the bastardised version of Bei Ming Shen Gong, created by Ding Chunqiu. It sucks energy, but the user can't use the energy, as it disappears into the ground or something - Li Qiushui looked down on the technique as wasteful and a pale imitation of the original.
    Hua Gong Da Fa may even preceded BMSG, and may be a creation of the Xiao Yao elders.

    This can be deducted from the scroll that DY first read in chapter 3-4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    So BMSG complete version of sucking internal energy skill that can merge all energies absorb to neutral energies and use it perfectly. XXDF is the incomplete version that absorb energies and when uses the different energies can kill the person like RWX. HGDF last one can only absorb energies, but can't uses it.

    I have other questions:
    Where did Duan Yu learn BMSG? I thought he only found LBMB manual in cave.
    I heard Duan Yu never completely learn BMSG so shouldn't he have problem absorbing the energies too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    Hua Gong Da Fa may even preceded BMSG, and may be a creation of the Xiao Yao elders.

    This can be deducted from the scroll that DY first read in chapter 3-4.

    Han Solo
    I read somewhere here that it was Ding Chunqiu's attempt to imitate Beiming Shengong, and from the scroll, I assumed that Li Qiushui looked down on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by aniking_8 View Post
    I have other questions:
    Where did Duan Yu learn BMSG? I thought he only found LBMB manual in cave.
    I heard Duan Yu never completely learn BMSG so shouldn't he have problem absorbing the energies too.
    The scroll had instructions for both Lingbo Weibu and Beiming Shengong. He didn't perfectly learn BMSG so he can't absorb energy willy nilly, but only via certain acupoints (which he coincidentally always touches on whenever the plot demands it), but the absorbed energy is transformed into useable Beiming Zhenqi.
    Last edited by pannonian; 03-25-09 at 07:52 PM.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aniking_8 View Post
    HGDF last one can only absorb energies, but can't uses it.
    Dissipate is a more accurate word than absorb, since what it does is "wipe out" the opponent's energy (but does not absorb it). Hence Huagong Dafa is usually translated as Energy-Dissipating Technique.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Dissipate is a more accurate word than absorb, since what it does is "wipe out" the opponent's energy (but does not absorb it). Hence Huagong Dafa is usually translated as Energy-Dissipating Technique.
    So fa gong dai fa destroy or deplete one internal energy instead of absorbing it?

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Correct. It destroys the internal energy of others instead of stealing or taking it for one's own use.
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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Correct. It destroys the internal energy of others instead of stealing or taking it for one's own use.
    Did Ding Chunqiu ever uses it? I remember he only uses poison and was practicing the skill, but did he finish mastering it?

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aniking_8 View Post
    Did Ding Chunqiu ever uses it? I remember he only uses poison and was practicing the skill, but did he finish mastering it?
    Yes, he successfully used it against Reverend Xuannan, who was equal to or better than Ding. He also used it against Murong Fu but due to luck, Murong Fu was able to escape.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Also about Duan Yu wasn't his famil technique is YY finger and 6MSG come from the temple?

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    No one seems to have answered the thread title question: "Zuo Lengchan Freezing Breath VS Wei Yixiao ice attack. I was wondering are those 2 techniques the same or different and which is stronger"?

    They are different. Zuo Lengchan freezing zhenqi seems to me to have been developed as a sacrificial counter to Ren Woxing's Xi Xing Da Fa. By taking the extremely yin zhenqi into his own body, RWX was actually scoring an own goal. If not for the actions of LHC, XWT and RYY he would have been a goner. The freezing zhenqi seems to be just that, there is not an apparent external set of techniques, e.g. palms, to express the power.

    Whereas Wei Yixiao freezing cotton palms are both an "internal" and "external" practice. The palms have the effect of completely sapping the opponent's strength.

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    Senior Member aniking_8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CFT View Post
    No one seems to have answered the thread title question: "Zuo Lengchan Freezing Breath VS Wei Yixiao ice attack. I was wondering are those 2 techniques the same or different and which is stronger"?

    They are different. Zuo Lengchan freezing zhenqi seems to me to have been developed as a sacrificial counter to Ren Woxing's Xi Xing Da Fa. By taking the extremely yin zhenqi into his own body, RWX was actually scoring an own goal. If not for the actions of LHC, XWT and RYY he would have been a goner. The freezing zhenqi seems to be just that, there is not an apparent external set of techniques, e.g. palms, to express the power.

    Whereas Wei Yixiao freezing cotton palms are both an "internal" and "external" practice. The palms have the effect of completely sapping the opponent's strength.
    Thanks, I finally got my answer for the thread, which I forgot already since people discussing only about absorbing energy skills.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    It is also generally understood that the Sun Moon sect is the descendant of the Ming sect; you will note that when you put the characters 'Sun' 日 and 'Moon' 月 together, you get the character 'Ming' 明. It's also generally understood that XAJH is placed sometime during the 'Ming' dynasty. Most likely, it was formed by the remnants of the Ming sect who were crushed by Zhu Yuanzhang in his grab for power.
    In the first edition of the novel, the cult wasn't called the 'Sun Moon' cult at all. It was called the 'Morning Sun' (朝陽 - chao yang/chiu yeung) cult instead. I'm not sure why Jinyong changed it, but I'd hazard a guess that '朝陽' sounds a bit too soft and flowing for a 'demon cult', whereas '日月' sounds a lot rougher. Anyway, I don't think the original intent of the author was for the cult to be the remnants of the Ming cult, but from the second edition onwards, who knows...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    In the first edition of the novel, the cult wasn't called the 'Sun Moon' cult at all. It was called the 'Morning Sun' (朝陽 - chao yang/chiu yeung) cult instead. I'm not sure why Jinyong changed it, but I'd hazard a guess that '朝陽' sounds a bit too soft and flowing for a 'demon cult', whereas '日月' sounds a lot rougher. Anyway, I don't think the original intent of the author was for the cult to be the remnants of the Ming cult, but from the second edition onwards, who knows...
    Probably because of fans encouragement that Jin Yong change it to make it connected to Ming Cult just like DGSD QF DS28P became 18 and connect to LOCH H7G.

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