The Mythology Around 包青天

[dewyloony123]

(hope this is the right place to post this question--it's a history of literature/culture question, and a tiny bit of a wuxia fiction question, but more of the former)

I've some questions about the mythology surrounding Judge Bao--not about the historical or TV show Judge Bao, but about the canonical Judge Bao of the folk traditions and song and story. Can you answer them? It bugs me that I don't know anymore...

- why Judge Bao gets to use the 3 special set of guillotines, and whether he's the only guy who gets to do so (normally people have regular executioners, right?)

- who the 七俠和五義 are

- 展昭's backstory, what his connection with the South is (is he 南俠?), and why he's "The Cat"--and while we're at it, who are the however-many-mice? (can't remember how many 鼠 we're talking about)

- 黃朝, 馬漢, 張龍, 超虎's backstory

- 公孫 whats-his-face's backstory

- whether there are any more "team members"/antagonists--Judge Bao always has an enemy in Generalissimo/commander of armed forces, a weak ally in the Prime Minister, and a staunch ally in the Imperial Brother/Uncle figure (can't remember which one he is). Is this part of the folklore?

- whether the canonical Judge Bao has a run-in with the 駙馬. Every TV version has an angry princess sans her consort. While we're at it, every TV version has a 貍貓換太子 (even the Shaw Bros movie) and 真假狀元 episode--are these canonical? Which are the canonical stories?

Thanks! Any insight on these will lead to much happiness.

[Suet Seung]

Here's a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bao_Qingtian (Most of your questions will find answers in this webpage.)

His name is Bao Zheng.

- 展昭's backstory, and why he's "The Cat"--and while we're at it, who are the however-many-mice? (can't remember how many 鼠 we're talking about)

Zhan Zhao is nicknamed "The Cat" (there's an actual nickname which basically he's a noble or cat of the imperial/royal palace? Somebody help me with the word I'm looking for). Zhan Zhao is commonly known in JiangHu as The Southern Hero Zhan Zhao. He used to roam JiangHu but after meeting Justice Bao, he dedicated himself to serve under Justice Bao. ZZ is a fourth class rank official, where as Justice Bao is a 2nd rank official.

貍貓換太子 - I can't make out the first three characters, but I'm guessing this is the Cat switching with the Prince story. This is a common one, I believe the old Taiwanese TV serial covered this case and the more recent 2007 adaptation covered this case too. Oh wait, That's the one with Guo Huai (郭槐), the eunuch. This is a very famous one.

I'll come back with more information after I get some decent sleep.

[dewyloony123]

Here's a good start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bao_Qingtian (Most of your questions will find answers in this webpage.)

His name is Bao Zheng.



Zhan Zhao is nicknamed "The Cat" (there's an actual nickname which basically he's a noble or cat of the imperial/royal palace? Somebody help me with the word I'm looking for). Zhan Zhao is commonly known in JiangHu as The Southern Hero Zhan Zhao. He used to roam JiangHu but after meeting Justice Bao, he dedicated himself to serve under Justice Bao. ZZ is a fourth class rank official, where as Justice Bao is a 2nd rank official.

貍貓換太子 - I can't make out the first three characters, but I'm guessing this is the Cat switching with the Prince story. This is a common one, I believe the old Taiwanese TV serial covered this case and the more recent 2007 adaptation covered this case too. Oh wait, That's the one with Guo Huai (郭槐), the eunuch. This is a very famous one.

I'll come back with more information after I get some decent sleep.

Thanks! Yeah, after posting I realized the wiki page does confirm some of my hunches (e.g. that Cat Switching and Chen Shimei are canonical)--but I'd like to know the why's and how's, if possible. e.g. how did Zhan Zhao switch from his bandit background (I'm guessing he was a bandit?) and decide to serve Bao Zheng?

Re Cat + Cat Switching: in the old Shaw Bros movie for Cat Switching With the Prince (貍貓換太子), Zhan Zhao gets the Cat name when the emperor observes him climbing up a fortress wall with catlike ease, which pisses off the 5 (?) Mice--though I can't remember who they were, what they did, and whether they appear in the canon again. So... Shaw Bros were right? i.e. this one's a real story? How did it become part of the canon? When/how did these classic stories all become part of the canon?

Looking forward to your responses after you get sleep!

[dewyloony123]

(lol, I'm doing lots of research anyway )

re how's and why's: I found a description of this book which gives what sounds like canonical stories... and don't sound anything like the stories we think are part of the canon. Basically... how did we get from these ballads to what we think of are the right stories??

And this site gives some hints of the origins of Zhan Zhao et al:

Another fun thing about Judge Bao is that his loyal, brave, handsome, and skilled officers of the tribunal come from a 17th century crossover novel. Zhao Zhan and Co. used to have their own heroic adventures, you see. But the crossover was so successful that they’ve stuck with the judge ever since.

So what are the cross-over stories?

Thanks in advance.

[Suet Seung]

Wow! Dewy, You have so many question and I am not the right person to ask as all the information I know is derived from the different TV Series and what remain consistent in the many different adaptation TV serials. I mean, there does not seem like a lot of documented information on the folklore and legends of Bao Zheng. I think what we can gather is from the consistent portrayals of the cases and characters. You know what I mean?

Where is HuangYuShi, the Most Well-rounded and Knowledgeable Person on Spcnet, at? PAGING MR. HUANG YU SHI! Please report to this thread now! (Haha, I hope he got my paging mentally and suddenly appear here and soon!)

Dewy, I thought you might find this funny. Read the description of this restaurant.
http://www.baotoday.com/about.html

Here's a book on Judge Bao:
http://www.chinabooks.com.au/ChinaBo...ds_to_display=

Comic - The Legend of Justice Bao (here you can read a few pages from it)
http://books.google.com/books?id=-YgKt47AHbcC

I found this from this website: http://www.bjpiano.com/e-child2.htm This person's grandfather told them.

There was a popular legend in our country saying that cats cursed Baogong. (Baogong was a famous strict judge a thousand years ago in the Song Dynasty of China's History) The legend tells about the disruption of Dongjing, the capital of the Song Dynasty by five rats many years ago. Baogong invited an animal from heaven to eat the rats and that animal was a cat. Baogong promised to send the cat back to heaven when she wiped out the rats. When the cat came down to earth, she really caught the five rats, with the four claws grabbing a rat in each, and holding the fifth in her mouth. But accidentally, the rat in one of her right claws escaped. That rat bred her offspring and rats multiplied in ever enlarging numbers. So Baogong left the cat on earth. But the cat was angry with Baogong and she blamed Baogong by snoring frequently. I questioned Granddad: "Was that story heard from the cat?" and he answered: "Oh, no! It is merely a legend." I did not know what was a legend yet at that time and I just learned that cats could abuse people. Grandma said:"Although people say cats are like treacherous officials and dogs are like faithful officials. Actually, if you treat cats kindly they would be nice to you. A person must always live an honest life before they can hope for a nice future like cats."

Now, I am not sure if they're talking about real mice and rats, but TV serials like to depict these five mice as bandits, Bai Yu Tang and his four sworn brothers. They're known to not follow the law because they've seen so many corrupt officials.

There's a common saying about Justice Bao, which says 'During the daytime, he judges the Yang world and during the night he judges the Yin world.'

[Suet Seung]

http://www.shuku.net:8080/novels/his...lk/qgtg36.html

From : http://www.sacu.org/pic30.html

Bao Zheng Temple a scenic site in Hefei, capital of Anhui Province. Bao Zheng was a famous high-ranking official of the Song Dynasty.

Bao Zheng (Bao Gong) was born in April 999 AD in present- day Feidong County near Hefei City. He was a senior official of the Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127) during the Three Kingdoms Period. Esteemed for his strictness in upholding justice and opposing corruption no matter how powerful the official, Bao died in 1062.

Many Chinese tourists have visited the tomb in the ensuing centuries, fragments of bone were found here in 1973. In the centre of the Main Hall stands a 10 foot high bronze statue of Bao Zheng. At the southeastern corner to the temple is the hexagonal dragon-well pavilion. The reflection of the dragon's head at the tip of the pavilion is clearly seen in the water of the well. According to legend, if a corrupt official drinks the water from the well, he will get a headache.

Bao Zheng appears in a number of Operas including Beating the Dragon Robe (Da Long Pao) in which Bao Zheng stages a play for Emperor Zhao Zhen at the Lantern Festival about an undutiful son who is killed by a thunderbolt. This angers Zhao because it suggests he has been an undutiful son. The emperor learns, however, that his mother has been driven out of court by another concubine of his father and is leading a miserable life in a village. The emperor immediately orders her brought back to the court. The mother censures her son and tells Bao Zheng to give him a beating for having been so unfilial. Bao asks the Emperor to take off his robe and beats that instead.

This beating of the Dragon's Robe story connects to the 貍貓換太子 case.

If you still like to read about my knowledge of Judge Bao based on the tv serials, I'd be happy to share.

[dewyloony123]

http://www.shuku.net:8080/novels/his...lk/qgtg36.html

From : http://www.sacu.org/pic30.html



This beating of the Dragon's Robe story connects to the 貍貓換太子 case.

If you still like to read about my knowledge of Judge Bao based on the tv serials, I'd be happy to share.

Thanks for the links and replies! I think everything you said is slowly helping me piece together the answers to my questions... thanks!

But please do feel free to keep sharing the knowledge, offering critiques, opining on Bao Qing Tian (and those delicious looking baos! )