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Thread: THE SHELL GAME (千王之王) (1980) Thread

  1. #41
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    HAHA....well then Prof. Cheng...I think maybe you have the cut version and i'm downloading the uncut version...HA!!

    Don't worry, i'll tell you about what you missed.


    QF
    Maybe the mysterious "twenty-first episode" is the special, little-known pornographic episode wherein all the characters get together for some sort of orgy.

    If that's what it is, please burn me a copy.

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    Maybe the mysterious "twenty-first episode" is the special, little-known pornographic episode wherein all the characters get together for some sort of orgy.

    If that's what it is, please burn me a copy.
    Will do...

    If thats the case i will burn and send to every single spcnet members here.


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  3. #43
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    THE SHELL GAME series has its own internal mythology in regards to the great Gambler Kings of China during the late 19th/early 20th Centuries. The major acknowledged figures were:

    Sau Dai Chin: Possibly the greatest Gambler King of all time. Undefeated for seventy years. Retired at age thirty-five, but returned to action some thirty years later to take on new Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu. Defeated Chan Yim Bak (twice, across thirty years), Zhuge Fong Ping, Tao 1 Siu, and Ah Lung, but finally defeated by King of Gambler Kings Tam Sing using Tao 1 Siu as a proxy. Notably, shortly before coming out of his long retirement to take on Tao 1 Siu, Sau Dai Chin boldly told his wife Yu Lan that during his thirty years of retirement, the gambling world had seen the rise and fall of Northern Thousand Hands Cheuk 1 Fu and Divine Southern Eyes Lo 4 Hoi, as well as the advent of their student, King of Gambler Kings Tam Sing, but he had never been interested in matching his skill against theirs. Ironically, when Tam Sing rebuffed his challenge during Ah Lung's funeral, Sau Dai Chin was notably enraged by Tam's seemingly superior enlightenment and self-awareness. Whether or not Sau Dai Chin would have defeated Tam Sing in a contest of games is debatable, but Tam Sing certainly outwitted him.

    Chan Yim Bak: teacher of New Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung. Defeated by Sau Dai Chin twenty-two years before the events of THE SHELL GAME (I) and forced into retirement. Died in vain attempt to defeat and kill Sau Dai Chin thirty years after first failure to defeat Sau.

    Zhuge Fong Ping: teacher of original Northern Gambler King "Thousand Hands" Cheuk 1 Fu. Lost a hand gambling with Sau Dai Chin and disappeared thereafter.

    (unnamed): teacher of original Southern Gambler King "Divine Eyes" Lo 4 Hoi. Defeated by Cheuk 1 Fu and retired to Malaysia.

    Northern Gambler King "Thousand Hands" Cheuk 1 Fu: Gambling King of Shanghai. Acknowledged as one of the greatest plotters of all time. Ruled Shanghai gambling industry for over twenty years. Adoptive father of Gambler Queen Cheuk Lei, whose father Cheuk 1 Fu executed for treason. Lost in Mah Jong Tournament in Guangzhou to Southern Gambler King "Divine Eyes" Lo 4 Hoi, whose teacher Cheuk defeated and forced into retirement years earlier. Later helped Hung Family of Guangzhou to defeat Lo 4 Hoi and oust him from Guangzhou. Hands crippled by Cheuk Lei, but with the help of Lo 4 Hoi, whom Cheuk 1 Fu befriended, trained Tam Sing to become King of Gambler Kings. Retired after helping Tam Sing to defeat Cheuk Lei. Died of natural causes immediately before the beginning of the events of THE SHELL GAME II.

    Southern Gambler King "Divine Eyes" Lo 4 Hoi: Gambling King of Guangzhou. Acknowledged as one of the greatest gamesmen of all time. Acquired Divine Eyes and other skills in Malaysia, and became folk hero to the people of Guangzhou. Known for his chivalry and kindheartedness as well as his great skill. Was the original teacher of future King of Gambler Kings Tam Sing, teaching Tam the fundamental skills of gambling and plotting. Defeated Northern Gambler King "Thousand Hands" Cheuk 1 Fu in a legendary Mah Jong tournament in Guangzhou, but later blinded and driven from Guangzhou by the Hung Family and Cheuk Lei. Later, joined with Cheuk 1 Fu to complete training Tam Sing into the King of Gambler Kings. Retired to Singapore with lover Tam Siu Tong after the events of THE SHELL GAME I.

    King of Gambler Kings/New Southern Gambler King Tam Sing: The greatest Gambler King of the younger generation. Student of Southern Gambler King Divine Eyes Lo 4 Hoi and Northern Gambler King Thousand Hands Cheuk 1 Fu. Combined the best of Southern and Northern gambling and plotting techniques into an entirely new and transcendent style. First Gambler King to achieve "Denial of Six Relations" to defeat Gambler Queen Cheuk Lei and attain title of King of Gambler Kings. Retired immediately before the beginning of events of THE SHELL GAME II, but re-emerged two years later to conceive the plot that finally defeated Sau Dai Chin. Achieved a high level of enlightenment, surpassing Sau Dai Chin. Known to be ambidextrous, and retrained new Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu after Tao lost his golden right hand to Sau Dai Chin.

    Gambler Queen Cheuk Lei: Adopted daughter of Cheuk 1 Fu. Surpassed and defeated her father, Lo 4 Hoi, and the Hung Family of Guangzhou. Finally defeated by Tam Sing, dying a horrific death. A beautiful young woman, she specialized in the use of seduction (against Tam Sing and Hung Pau) and other forms of emotional manipulation (Cheuk 1 Fu, Lo 4 Hoi, Hung Biu).

    New Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu: Emerged in Shanghai three years after the retirement of Cheuk 1 Fu. Student of Chan Yim Bak and sworn brother of Ah Lung. Known for his "Golden" right hand. Flashier and more arrogant than previous Gambler Kings, though basically benign. First Gambler King to invest beyond gaming industry into gold market. Planned to expand gambling empire to all of China except for Guangdong (reserved for Tam Sing), but lost hand and fortune to Sau Dai Chin. Later, retrained by Tam Sing to use his left hand and the "Denial of the Six Relations" to defeat Sau Dai Chin. Killed shortly after victory over Sau Dai Chin.

    Ah Lung: called the "most talented gambler in a generation," Ah Lung showed early promise but was warned by Tam Sing to not become a gambler. Eventually, became the sworn brother of Tao 1 Siu and aided him against Sau Dai Chin. Trained intermittently by Chan Yim Bak, Tao 1 Siu, and Sau Dai Chin. Became a mole in Sau Dai Chin's organization after Tao 1 Siu lost his "Golden Hand." Defeated Sau Dai Chin with a ruse, but failed to kill him. Later lost to Sau Dai Chin in a card match and forced for forfeit his life.

    Apocrypha

    "Little Gambler King" Lui Lik: Worked with Lo 4 Hoi before the events of THE SHELL GAME I to foil the plots of Japanese Gambler Tyrant. Appeared in CHALLENGE OF THE GAMESTERS prequel film, which might or might not be in THE SHELL GAME television series continuity.

    Japanese Gambler Tyrant: Defeated by Lo 4 Hoi and Lui Lik.

  4. #44
    Junior Member jSMl2046's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    THE SHELL GAME series has its own internal mythology in regards to the great Gambler Kings of China during the late 19th/early 20th Centuries. The major acknowledged figures were:

    Sau Dai Chin: Possibly the greatest Gambler King of all time. Undefeated for seventy years. Retired at age thirty-five, but returned to action some thirty years later to take on new Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu. Defeated Chan Lim Bak, Zhuge, Tao 1 Siu, and Ah Lung, but finally defeated by King of Gambler Kings Tam Sing using Tao 1 Siu as a proxy.

    Chan Lim Bak: teacher of new Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu. Defeated by Sau Dai Chin twenty-two years before the events of THE SHELL GAME (I) and forced into retirement.

    Zhuge (first name omitted): teacher of original Northern Gambler King "Thousand Hands" Cheuk 1 Fu. Lost a hand gambling with Sau Dai Chin and disappeared thereafter.

    (unnamed): teacher of original Southern Gambler King "Divine Eyes" Lo 4 Hoi. Defeated by Cheuk 1 Fu and retired to Malaysia.

    Northern Gambler King "Thousand Hands" Cheuk 1 Fu: Gambling King of Shanghai. Acknowledged as one of the greatest plotters of all time. Ruled Shanghai gambling industry for over twenty years. Retired after helping his student King of Gambler Kings Tam Sing to defeat Cheuk Lei. Died immediately before the beginning of the events of THE SHELL GAME II.

    Southern Gambler King "Divine Eyes" Lo 4 Hoi: Gambling King of Guangzhou. Acknowledged as one of the greatest gamesmen of all time. Acquired Divine Eyes and other skills in Malaysia, and became folk hero to the people of Guangzhou. Known for his chivalry and kindheartedness as well as his great skill. Blinded by the Hung Family and Cheuk Lei, but helped train Tam Sing into the King of Gambler Kings. Retired to Singapore with lover Tam Siu Tong after the events of THE SHELL GAME I.

    King of Gambler Kings/new Southern Gambler King Tam Sing: The greatest Gambler King of the younger generation. Student of Southern Gambler King Divine Eyes Lo 4 Hoi and Northern Gambler King Thousand Hands Cheuk 1 Fu. Combined the best of Southern and Northern gambling and plotting techniques into an entirely new and transcendent style. First Gambler King to achieve "Denial of Six Relations" to defeat Gambler Queen Cheuk Lei and attain title of King of Gambler Kings. Retired immediately before the beginning of events of THE SHELL GAME II, but re-emerged two years later to conceive the plot that finally defeated Sau Dai Chin. Achieved a high level of enlightenment, surpassing Sau Dai Chin. Known to be ambidextrous.

    Gambler Queen Cheuk Lei: Adopted daughter of Cheuk 1 Fu. Surpassed and defeated her father, Lo 4 Hoi, and the Hung Family of Guangzhou. Finally defeated by Tam Sing, dying a horrific death.

    new Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu: Emerged in Shanghai three years after the retirement of Cheuk 1 Fu. Known for his "Golden" right hand. Flashier and more arrogant than previous Gambler Kings, though basically benign. First Gambler King to invest beyond gaming industry into gold market. Planned to expand gambling empire to all of China except for Guangdong (reserved for Tam Sing), but lost hand and fortune to Sau Dai Chin. Later, retrained by Tam Sing to use his left hand and the "Denial of the Six Relations" to defeat Sau Dai Chin. Killed shortly after victory over Sau Dai Chin.

    Ah Lung: called the "most talented gambler in a generation," Ah Lung showed early promise but was warned by Tam Sing to not become a gambler. Eventually, became the sworn brother of Tao 1 Siu and aided him against Sau Dai Chin. Trained intermittently by Chan Lim Bak and Tao 1 Siu. Became a mole in Sau Dai Chin's organization after Tao 1 Siu lost his "Golden Hand." Defeated Sau Dai Chin with a ruse, but failed to kill him. Later lost to Sau Dai Chin in a card match and forced for forfeit his life.

    Apocrypha

    "Little Gambler King" Lui Lik: Worked with Lo 4 Hoi before the events of THE SHELL GAME I to foil the plots of Japanese Gambler Tyrant. Appeared in CHALLENGE OF THE GAMESTERS prequel film, which might or might not be in THE SHELL GAME television series continuity.

    Japanese Gambler Tyrant: Defeated by Lo 4 Hoi and Lui Lik.
    great info, thanks alot!

  5. #45
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    Chan Lim Bak: teacher of new Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung.
    Its actually....Chan Yim Bak


    A little rusty on the cantonese are we?


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  6. #46
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    Its actually....Chan Yim Bak


    A little rusty on the cantonese are we?


    QF
    More like hearing going bad. It's hard to distinguish those consonants sometimes.

    Too many years of listening to rock 'n roll at high volumes, I suppose.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Northern Gambler King "Thousand Hands" Cheuk 1 Fu: Died immediately before the beginning of the events of THE SHELL GAME II.
    Thanks, Ken. Some details on how Cheuk 1 Fu died please.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    Thanks, Ken. Some details on how Cheuk 1 Fu died please.
    Very uneventfully. Died (off-camera) of natural causes immediately before THE SHELL GAME II started. The series began with Tam Sing receiving word of his teacher's passing.

  9. #49
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    So far i'm enjoying this more than Shell Game I.... Mostly cause of Ah Lung.

    That guy is funny as hell.....Good job to Chow Yun Fat.


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  10. #50
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    I just saw Andy Lau in this series......hahahaahaha


    The future Yeung Gor... who would have known...


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  11. #51
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    Hehe... I love those old gambling series/movies (which were actually cool and classy, not those new cheapo imitation ones now that make me puke - and hate Nick Cheung and Louis Koo)

    Just to imagine a world where they crossed over with the Chow Yun Fat "God of Gamblers" world. Lo 4 Hoi vs Ko Chun! Ko Chun's invincible!
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
    Cyril Connolly

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    So far i'm enjoying this more than Shell Game I.... Mostly cause of Ah Lung.

    That guy is funny as hell.....Good job to Chow Yun Fat.


    QF
    Chow Yun Fat played Ah Lung with a great amount of zest and verve. Unfortunately, due to plot developments that lead to character growth, Ah Lung loses his humorous vibe later in the series as its direction takes a more serious turn. As the tone of the series becomes more grim, so does Ah Lung's demeanor.

    It had to happen, I suppose, but it was unfortunate...sort of undermined the character's best quality.

    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    I just saw Andy Lau in this series......hahahaahaha
    This might have been Andy Lau's first time on camera. What an opportunity it was for him: Lau always said that he admired Chow Yun Fat and became an actor himself because of Chow, so how fun it must have been for Lau to get to work with his hero in his very first acting job with TVB. Within a few years, Lau would take Chow's place as TVB's most valued actor.

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    I just want to say something about the music...


    DAMN IT Mr. Goo Ga Fai!!!!! Why must you make the music so good....

    I made the wrong decision by looking for the shell game music and now it makes me all pump up...

    Damn it!


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  14. #54
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    Ah Lung: called the "most talented gambler in a generation," Ah Lung showed early promise but was warned by Tam Sing to not become a gambler. Eventually, became the sworn brother of Tao 1 Siu and aided him against Sau Dai Chin.
    Come again? When did he and Tao 1 Siu became sworn brothers?? Throughout the series, he always refered him as either 1)Boss, 2) Partner 3) Master. Never once he said "big Brother"... Ah Lung considers him as a teacher more than anything else.


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  15. #55
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    Come again? When did he and Tao 1 Siu became sworn brothers?? Throughout the series, he always refered him as either 1)Boss, 2) Partner 3) Master. Never once he said "big Brother"... Ah Lung considers him as a teacher more than anything else.


    QF
    It was done more obliquely than usual, but recall when Ah Lung first joined Tao 1 Siu's organization: Ah Lung *wanted* to be Tao 1 Siu's student, but Tao 1 Siu told him flatly that he wasn't interested in having a student. Tao 1 Siu did say, however, that he wanted a partner, which in the Shanghai triad societies meant brotherhood. When Ah Lung's half-brother Ah Fu came to town, his mother (i.e. Ah Lung's mother) said that Tao 1 Siu was "dai gor" and Ah Lung was "2 gor."

    Ah Lung definitely never had the traditional student/teacher relationship with Tao 1 Siu that Tam Sing had with Lo 4 Hoi or Cheuk 1 Fu.

    Chan Yim Bak was more Ah Lung's proper teacher. Since Chan taught both Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung, it's reasonable to see them as "see hing/dai."

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    It was done more obliquely than usual, but recall when Ah Lung first joined Tao 1 Siu's organization: Ah Lung *wanted* to be Tao 1 Siu's student, but Tao 1 Siu told him flatly that he wasn't interested in having a student.
    They all say that in the beginning. Lo 4 Hoi also said that. All great kung fu masters say that.

    Tao 1 Siu did say, however, that he wanted a partner, which in the Shanghai triad societies meant brotherhood.
    Well damn...thats pretty much means that T1S has alot of sworn brothers then huh?

    When Ah Lung's half-brother Ah Fu came to town, his mother (i.e. Ah Lung's mother) said that Tao 1 Siu was "dai gor" and Ah Lung was "2 gor."
    Your kidding me. You are gonna take an out of town, uneducated woman who wants to impress her son, words for a fact?

    Ah Lung definitely never had the traditional student/teacher relationship with Tao 1 Siu that Tam Sing had with Lo 4 Hoi or Cheuk 1 Fu.
    Sure. I agree.


    Since Chan taught both Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung, it's reasonable to see them as "see hing/dai."
    That above would have been fine except for the fact that Ah Lung called T1S "SIFU" on a couple of occasions.

    And.....T1S's wife, Si Ling, told Ah Lung that T1S never regreted in taking him in as STUDENT.

    Sorry dude, as much as you want to make them as partners or Sing hing/Si dai, is just wrong.


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    They all say that in the beginning. Lo 4 Hoi also said that. All great kung fu masters say that.
    Lo 4 Hoi didn't mean it, but Tao 1 Siu did. He never did take Ah Lung as his student, and left Ah Lung's training in the hands of his own teacher, Chan Yim Bak. Ah Lung never called Tao 1 Siu "see fu," but he did call Chan Yim Bak that.

    Well damn...thats pretty much means that T1S has alot of sworn brothers then huh?
    Yeah, including his right-hand man Ah Gai. But Ah Lung became the most important one.


    Your kidding me. You are gonna take an out of town, uneducated woman who wants to impress her son, words for a fact?
    She was right, though. This was indeed the set-up that Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung had, and everybody in Shanghai knew it.

    That above would have been fine except for the fact that Ah Lung called T1S "SIFU" on a couple of occasions.
    No, he never did. He called him "Mr. Tao" out of habit and respect, but to other people, Ah Lung always referred to Tao 1 Siu as "my dai lo," not as "my see fu."

    Chan Yim Bak, on the other hand, was referred to by Ah Lung's grandmother as his "see fu" on more than one occasion. Chan Yim Bak did more hands-on teaching of Ah Lung than Tao 1 Siu ever did. In fact, I don't know if Tao 1 Siu ever trained Ah Lung at all.

    And.....T1S's wife, Si Ling, told Ah Lung that T1S never regreted in taking him in as STUDENT.
    I'm not there yet, but as of Episode 11, there's no reference by anyone to Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung being teacher/student. They're always referred to as partners or occasionally brothers, but never teacher/student.



    Sorry dude, as much as you want to make them as partners or Sing hing/Si dai, is just wrong.


    QF
    They were definitely partners and most likely sworn brothers as well, and they did indeed share a teacher. The only time that Ah Lung ever called Tao 1 Siu "see fu" is when he offered himself as a student, but Tao 1 Siu rejected him (only to accept him as a partner/brother).

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    I'm not there yet, but as of Episode 11,
    What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? Youre not even finished yet and you're already making those assumptions? Oh brother.....


    Lo 4 Hoi didn't mean it,
    Ah..yes he did....He wouldn't have taken him if it wasn't for Tam Sing's sister.

    Maybe you havent' finished that series either.



    but Tao 1 Siu rejected him (only to accept him as a partner/brother).
    Suuuuuuuuuuure dude.

    No, he never did. He called him "Mr. Tao" out of habit and respect, but to other people, Ah Lung always referred to Tao 1 Siu as "my dai lo," not as "my see fu."

    And this coming from you that haven't finished the series yet?
    HA!!!!!!


    And all this time i thought i wasn't paying enough attention to the series.

    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  19. #59
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    What?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!? Youre not even finished yet and you're already making those assumptions? Oh brother.....
    I already watched it twice before, although the most recent time before now was 1986.

    But why this hostile, borderline courtroom drama tone? You sound like you're desperate to prove something. We're just having a conversation about a series we both enjoy. Every time we do this, I swear you start acting like there's some sort of six-figure cash prize to be gained for being "right."

    You may disagree all you like, but I don't understand your compulsion to rudeness in these discussions. If you persist in it, I'm not going to participate with you in these discussions anymore. That'd be a shame for both of us because I enjoy these discussions when you're not being rude (and I'm guessing you do too), but your attitude kills much of the joy of it.

    All right, enough lecture. On to the business at hand.

    Ah..yes he did....He wouldn't have taken him if it wasn't for Tam Sing's sister.
    Lo 4 Hoi wasn't that shallow. He wouldn't take on the burden of accepting Tam Sing as a student if gaining favor with Tam Siu Tong were the *only* reason. Lo 4 Hoi had Tam Siu Tong's favor whether he accepted Ah Sing as his student or not, but when he realized the depth of Siu Tong's commitment to her brother, and then also realized that Ah Sing had the kind of character that made him a worthy candidate to pass his skills on to, that's when Lo 4 Hoi decided to make Tam Sing his student after all.

    So Tam Siu Tong's lobbying for her brother certainly helped, but if Ah Sing weren't the kind of character that Lo 4 Hoi thought was worthy of being trained, it wouldn't have happened.

    Years later, however, Lo 4 Hoi wondered if he had made a mistake in accepting Tam Sing as a student. Cheuk 1 Fu's training had brought out a dark side to Tam Sing that Lo 4 Hoi had not anticipated. Tam Sing finally did reign in that dark side, but not before he had created a catastrophe that killed an innocent child (his own son, no less).

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    But why this hostile, borderline courtroom drama tone? You sound like you're desperate to prove something. We're just having a conversation about a series we both enjoy. Every time we do this, I swear you start acting like there's some sort of six-figure cash prize to be gained for being "right."

    You may disagree all you like, but I don't understand your compulsion to rudeness in these discussions. If you persist in it, I'm not going to participate with you in these discussions anymore. That'd be a shame for both of us because I enjoy these discussions when you're not being rude (and I'm guessing you do too), but your attitude kills much of the joy of it.

    All right, enough lecture. On to the business at hand.
    I didn't think i was rude..but ok...maybe i should do some smiley face more often eh


    Well, since you haven't finished the series, i'll let you finished the series before we continue...

    Ah Lung as T1S student is pretty much irrefutable. Ah Lung knows it...T1S knows it...Si Ling knows it(and she even mentions it).

    Sounds good?


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

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