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Thread: THE SHELL GAME (千王之王) (1980) Thread

  1. #61
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QF View Post
    I didn't think i was rude..but ok...maybe i should do some smiley face more often eh
    It's not the number of smilies used or not used. People who come here want to feel like they're sharing a conversation among friends, not sitting before a board of inquisition. Put yourself on the receiving end of some of your own remarks and you'll see what I mean.

    A little tact goes a long way. If it gains you nothing else, it'll at least gain you an audience that will read what you want to say with a more open mind. Give people a reason to think you're there to cause trouble for them and pretty soon, they'll tune you out altogether.


    Ah Lung as T1S student is pretty much irrefutable. Ah Lung knows it...T1S knows it...Si Ling knows it(and she even mentions it).
    But up to the halfway point of the series, nobody verbally acknowledges it.

    Tao 1 Siu will be leaving Shanghai for Hangzhou in just an episode or two, while Ah Lung stays in Shanghai attempting to undermine Sau Dai Chin as a mole in his operation. Not a whole heck of many opportunities left for their partnership/brotherhood to suddenly (and unnecessarily) become a teacher/student relationship.

    I think it was a good idea for Wong Jing (scriptwriter for THE SHELL GAME I and II) to take this route because if Ah Lung and Tao 1 Siu were to become student and teacher in the formal sense, it would be redundant: it would just be Tam Sing and Lo 4 Hoi all over again, which was already done in THE SHELL GAME I. This is a good twist on the setup from the first series.

    Sounds good?
    You're welcome to still offer your observations; just run them through an internal tact edit before you post so that they come out sounding more like discussion and less like an inquisition.

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    But up to the halfway point of the series, nobody verbally acknowledges it.
    It will happen. You'll hear Ah Lung say "Sifu" as if he called him that before.

    And you will also hear him say "i want to avenge my sifu"...and no he is not talking about Chan Yim Bak.

    And then you will hear Si Ling say "T1S told me that he doesn't regret accepting you as his student".

    just run them through an internal tact edit before you post so that they come out sounding more like discussion and less like an inquisition.
    Noted.

    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

  3. #63
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    Still no reference to Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung's relationship as being that of teacher/student as of Episode 12...

    However, tonight's episode did yield this tidbit: when Ah Lung discussed with Chan Yim Bak his plans to cancel his engagement to Fok See Ling so that she could take care of Tao 1 Siu, Chan Yim Bak remarked, "brothers are like limbs; spouses are like clothing."

    It's an old Chinese maxim, of course, reflecting Confucian culture's placing brotherhood as a higher priority than spousal relations, but as far as I know, that principle is NOT transferable to the teacher/student relationship. The "brothers" that Chan Yim Bak referred to were obviously Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung. If they were truly teacher and student, Chan Yim Bak would not have made this remark because it would not have been applicable to their situation.

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    Still no reference to Tao 1 Siu and Ah Lung's relationship as being that of teacher/student as of Episode 12...
    Keep on watching.


    QF
    有了你開心D乜都清心滿意鹹魚白菜也好好味

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    My first post and it's got to be about this show b/c it was so good! I just finished the Shell I series and LOVED it! But I now realize I saw the cut version since it didn't have the scene with Tam Sing gambling against Cheuk Lei. I am so pissed! I am wondering how you are getting your hands on the uncut versions on these shows? Also, I want to watch Shell II and would love the uncut version. Where are u downloading from? Lastly, I love the music but don't know what the song is saying - does anyone know a place to get interpretations of lyrics or can one of you tell me what the music is saying? Thanks!!!

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    My first post and it's got to be about this show b/c it was so good! I just finished the Shell I series and LOVED it! But I now realize I saw the cut version since it didn't have the scene with Tam Sing gambling against Cheuk Lei. I am so pissed! I am wondering how you are getting your hands on the uncut versions on these shows? Also, I want to watch Shell II and would love the uncut version. Where are u downloading from? Lastly, I love the music but don't know what the song is saying - does anyone know a place to get interpretations of lyrics or can one of you tell me what the music is saying? Thanks!!!
    The (mostly) uncut DVD boxed set that includes both THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II has been available from Taiseng for months now. It can be ordered from Yesasia.com, among other retailers.

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    I will be ordering the uncut version and can't wait to see it. Does anyone know how many episodes were cut out and where? otherwise, I guess I will need to rewatch the whole thing to find those missing episodes!

    Ken- are all the DVDs on yesasia uncut? Thanks so much for your help!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The (mostly) uncut DVD boxed set that includes both THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II has been available from Taiseng for months now. It can be ordered from Yesasia.com, among other retailers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    I will be ordering the uncut version and can't wait to see it. Does anyone know how many episodes were cut out and where? otherwise, I guess I will need to rewatch the whole thing to find those missing episodes!

    Ken- are all the DVDs on yesasia uncut? Thanks so much for your help!
    Every episode of the original series is there, but on some episodes, the first two or three minutes are missing because, during the early 1980s, TVB briefly experimented with a new format for its TV series. Like a James Bond movie, these episodes started with two or three minutes of action before the theme song was played. In some cases, it was merely a flashback to key events from the previous episode, but in some other cases, it's the lead in for the new episode.

    This was especially problematic for THE BUND, which was unique in that there were no opening titles for the series (as has been standard for almost all TVB series since the station began broadcasting in 1967). In THE SHELL GAME, however, it's much less of a problem because only one episode opened in that manner (although unfortunately, it did kill a very memorable scene); both parts of THE SHELL GAME retained the traditional opening titles.

    So on the DVD, you're getting 95% of the series...which is not bad considering that the VCDs usually gave you only 60% of the series.

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    Thank a lot for the info, Ken. I watched the VCD of Shell Game I. It was good but I realize that I missed some scenes including when Cheut Lei and Tam Sing play a match against each other. Do you know what and where the other scenes were missing from the VCD version? If I can figure out where they occurred, then I won't need to rewatch the entire DVD set. Of course, it was a great show so it won't be awful if I need to rewatch it but I'd love to move onto watching Shell Game II.

    Also, here are some questions I've got re: SGI. Would love to hear people's thoughts on these:
    (a) Don't you find it odd that Lo 4 Hoi so easily got passed the fact that Cheut Lei kidnapped and tried to seduce him? Did he really think he saw a ghost?! It just seems strange to me that a wise man like himself could overlook the fact that she could be a huge suspect.
    (b) How did Cheut Lei have the same jade necklace that Lo 4 Hoi stole off her neck? It sounded like one-of-a-kind

    I had one more question but it escapes me right now. If it comes back to me, I'll post it. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Every episode of the original series is there, but on some episodes, the first two or three minutes are missing because, during the early 1980s, TVB briefly experimented with a new format for its TV series. Like a James Bond movie, these episodes started with two or three minutes of action before the theme song was played. In some cases, it was merely a flashback to key events from the previous episode, but in some cases, it's the lead in for the new episode.

    This was especially problematic for THE BUND, which was unique in that there were no opening titles for the series (as has been standard for almost all TVB series since the station began broadcasting in 1967). In THE SHELL GAME, however, it's much less of a problem because only one episode opened in that manner (although unfortunately, it did kill a very memorable scene); both parts of THE SHELL GAME retained the traditional opening titles.

    So on the DVD, you're getting 95% of the series...which is not bad considering that the VCDs usually gave you only 60% of the series.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    Thank a lot for the info, Ken. I watched the VCD of Shell Game I. It was good but I realize that I missed some scenes including when Cheut Lei and Tam Sing play a match against each other. Do you know what and where the other scenes were missing from the VCD version? If I can figure out where they occurred, then I won't need to rewatch the entire DVD set. Of course, it was a great show so it won't be awful if I need to rewatch it but I'd love to move onto watching Shell Game II.
    I never bought the VCD set for THE SHELL GAME (after I got burned buying the VCD for THE BUND, I resolved not to buy any more of TVB's severely butchered VCDs), so I don't know precisely what got cut. If TVB followed its typical practice from the early 2000s with the VCDs, though, you're probably missing a good 30% of the series.

    The DVDs, though not perfect, at least give you 95% of what was originally broadcast. You might as well rewatch the entire series; you probably missed 30% of it on the VCD.

    (a) Don't you find it odd that Lo 4 Hoi so easily got passed the fact that Cheut Lei kidnapped and tried to seduce him? Did he really think he saw a ghost?! It just seems strange to me that a wise man like himself could overlook the fact that she could be a huge suspect.
    Lo 4 Hoi knew there was something wrong with Cheuk Lei. He didn't believe he actually had seen a ghost, but without more evidence, he couldn't really accuse Cheuk 1 Fu's daughter of being a seductress either. Lo 4 Hoi had great respect for Cheuk 1 Fu, and by the time that Cheuk Lei tried to seduce Lo 4 Hoi, he and Cheuk 1 Fu were friends. Lo 4 Hoi definitely had his suspicions, but he couldn't do much to act upon them. There was really no way Lo 4 Hoi could have told Cheuk 1 Fu to watch out for his daughter.

    (b) How did Cheut Lei have the same jade necklace that Lo 4 Hoi stole off her neck? It sounded like one-of-a-kind
    That's a good question. Lo 4 Hoi thought he had her that time, and was going to expose her, but she surprised him by producing that second butterfly pendant. Somehow, she arranged to have a second one on hand just in case Lo 4 Hoi decided to use it to expose her (which he did). Chalk it up to her being a truly formidable swindler capable of outmaneuvering even the great Gambling Kings.

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    Yeah, I'm going to rewatch the whole series.

    I wouldn't expect Lo 4 Hoi to tell Cheuk 1 Fu but I'd at least think he'd be more on guard especially when they were after that HK gambler "Geen". Lo 4 Hoi seemed like he entirely forgot about the incident with Cheuk Lei.

    I find it hard to believe that she could create an exact match of that pendant. That really needed some explanation.

    Okay, so I remember my other two questions:
    (a) why were Lo 4 Hoi and Cheuk 1 Fu willing to risk their lives to steal back the opium for Hung Bui? I know they called a cease-fire but it seems pretty odd to me that both of them would be willing to do such a task for Hung Bui.
    (b) after "Geen" captured Lo 4 Hoi and Cheuk 1 Fu and Hung Bui refused to put up the money to rescue them, why wasn't Cheuk 1 Fu angry and seeking vengeance against Hung Bui? Instead, he was pretty cordial to him. I know he was putting on an act but why? Why not turn on him?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    Yeah, I'm going to rewatch the whole series.

    I wouldn't expect Lo 4 Hoi to tell Cheuk 1 Fu but I'd at least think he'd be more on guard especially when they were after that HK gambler "Geen". Lo 4 Hoi seemed like he entirely forgot about the incident with Cheuk Lei.
    There wasn't much Lo 4 Hoi could do unless Cheuk Lei made another move. In any case, Lo 4 Hoi was completely distracted by his wife, Yung Wai Ching, their daughter Ying Ying, and the complications that reuniting with them would cause with Hung Biu and with Lo's new lover, Tam Siu Tong. In light of all this, it's not surprising that the Cheuk Lei incident was pushed way back on Lo 4 Hoi's list of priorities.

    A focused Lo 4 Hoi might have treated Cheuk Lei differently; he had too many fires lit at the time to give Cheuk Lei the proper attention, though.

    For what it's worth, Lo 4 Hoi did suspect that Cheuk Lei was a problem before anybody else did, but never was able to act upon it. Every time he noted something suspicious about her, something more important to him claimed his attention.

    In some ways, Cheuk Lei was lucky; she didn't have to deal with Lo 4 Hoi when he was completely focused and thinking clearly.

    I find it hard to believe that she could create an exact match of that pendant. That really needed some explanation.
    Well, part of the key to being successful in being these "Chin Wong"-type swindlers is being able to conjure up what you need on demand. It's not magic, exactly, but it achieves the same effect as magic sometimes.

    Okay, so I remember my other two questions:
    (a) why were Lo 4 Hoi and Cheuk 1 Fu willing to risk their lives to steal back the opium for Hung Bui? I know they called a cease-fire but it seems pretty odd to me that both of them would be willing to do such a task for Hung Bui.
    Cheuk 1 Fu did it, I assume, because Hung Biu paid him to. Certainly, he had no personal reason to do it, so my guess is that there was a monetary incentive of some kind (although this was never made explicit in the series). Additionally, perhaps Cheuk 1 Fu simply enjoyed the challenge of designing a scheme to swindle Chui Lo Geen, and perhaps he relished the opportunity to work with Lo 4 Hoi (whom he greatly respected) as a partner.

    Lo 4 Hoi had personal reasons for doing it: he needed to find a way to approach Yung Wai Ching and Hung Ying Ying and to do that, he needed to stay on Hung Biu's good side. The deal that Fok Man Ting set up among Hung, Lo, and Cheuk was not only that they would stop struggling against each other, but would help each other out in times of need. Although Lo 4 Hoi didn't like Hung Biu much, he nevertheless had reasons for honoring the agreement he had with Hung.

    (b) after "Geen" captured Lo 4 Hoi and Cheuk 1 Fu and Hung Bui refused to put up the money to rescue them, why wasn't Cheuk 1 Fu angry and seeking vengeance against Hung Bui? Instead, he was pretty cordial to him. I know he was putting on an act but why? Why not turn on him?
    Cheuk 1 Fu was a veteran...a "lo gong wu," as they say. He's seen people like Hung Biu before, so he knows how the game is played. Unless you really give Cheuk 1 Fu a reason to hate your guts, he's a pretty easygoing guy. After their little adventure in Hong Kong ended, Cheuk was eager to return home to Shanghai. Only the sudden renewed outbreak of hostilities between Hung Biu and Lo 4 Hoi's camp held him over to get embroiled in their conflict anew.

    By the way, I highly recommend THE SHELL GAME II. It's a nice followup to the first series, although it's a bit awkward to see Patrick Tse and Liza Wang appear in the sequel as new characters unrelated to the characters they play in THE SHELL GAME I.

    Simon Yam does appear as an older, wiser Tam Sing in THE SHELL GAME II (although his appearances are limited), and Chow Yun Fat's character Ah Lung is highly memorable as well.

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    Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, Ken! It's great to be able to bounce questions off you. I loved SGI and am definitely going to get SGII. On Yesasia, it seems like there's only the option to purchase both together anyway. Once I'm done watching SGII, I bet I'll have some questions for you! Btw, is Yesasia the only place to order these uncut DVDs? There are some other titles that I'm not seeing there that I'd love to get my hands on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts, Ken! It's great to be able to bounce questions off you. I loved SGI and am definitely going to get SGII. On Yesasia, it seems like there's only the option to purchase both together anyway. Once I'm done watching SGII, I bet I'll have some questions for you! Btw, is Yesasia the only place to order these uncut DVDs? There are some other titles that I'm not seeing there that I'd love to get my hands on.
    THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II are currently available only as a boxed set that includes both series. It's a great value, however: that's forty-five episodes.

    Yesasia isn't the only retailer offering it, but they are the most reliable and their prices are reasonable (though not necessarily the lowest).

    The main cast of THE SHELL GAME II features:


    Patrick Tse Yin (again) as New Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu: He plays another gambling king, but Tao 1 Siu has a different style and different personality than Lo 4 Hoi did. He's much more arrogant than Lo 4 Hoi (or Cheuk 1 Fu or Tam Sing), and much more flashy, but the flip side of that is that he also has much greater insecurities and personal demons for his enemies to exploit.

    Liza Wang (again) as Fok See Ling: Fok See Ling is initially a clumsy newspaper reporter, but she soon becomes the private tutor of Tao 1 Siu's mischievous young son, Ah Jen.

    Chow Yun Fat as Ah Lung: Essentially, Ah Lung is THE SHELL GAME II's version of the young Tam Sing, but Ah Lung is much funnier than Tam Sing ever was. His antics during the first part of the series are hilarious, and as the series becomes more serious later on, he becomes a tragic, but heroic figure.

    Simon Yam as Tam Sing: The only returning character from THE SHELL GAME I. It's eight years after the events of the original SHELL GAME. Tam Sing is older and (much) wiser, and has become something of a great sage among Gambler Kings. He appears only in the first and last few episodes of the series, and is sort of like a deus ex machina character. It's great to see how much his character has grown since THE SHELL GAME I, however, and at the end, we are reminded why he is truly the King of Gambler Kings.

    Lau Siu Ming as Sau Dai Chin: The ultimate evil Gambler King, sometimes called the "Gambler Demon." Has a fetish for chopping off the hands of those who lose games to him (which is everybody who ever played against him during his 70-year long career) and displaying those severed hands in glass jars and cases at his casino. This guy is seriously scary.

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    Thanks a lot, Ken, for the intro to SGII. I can't wait to see it ... but will need to rewatch SGI first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II are currently available only as a boxed set that includes both series. It's a great value, however: that's forty-five episodes.

    Yesasia isn't the only retailer offering it, but they are the most reliable and their prices are reasonable (though not necessarily the lowest).

    The main cast of THE SHELL GAME II features:


    Patrick Tse Yin (again) as New Northern Gambler King "Golden Hand" Tao 1 Siu: He plays another gambling king, but Tao 1 Siu has a different style and different personality than Lo 4 Hoi did. He's much more arrogant than Lo 4 Hoi (or Cheuk 1 Fu or Tam Sing), and much more flashy, but the flip side of that is that he also has much greater insecurities and personal demons for his enemies to exploit.

    Liza Wang (again) as Fok See Ling: Fok See Ling is initially a clumsy newspaper reporter, but she soon becomes the private tutor of Tao 1 Siu's mischievous young son, Ah Jen.

    Chow Yun Fat as Ah Lung: Essentially, Ah Lung is THE SHELL GAME II's version of the young Tam Sing, but Ah Lung is much funnier than Tam Sing ever was. His antics during the first part of the series are hilarious, and as the series becomes more serious later on, he becomes a tragic, but heroic figure.

    Simon Yam as Tam Sing: The only returning character from THE SHELL GAME I. It's eight years after the events of the original SHELL GAME. Tam Sing is older and (much) wiser, and has become something of a great sage among Gambler Kings. He appears only in the first and last few episodes of the series, and is sort of like a deus ex machina character. It's great to see how much his character has grown since THE SHELL GAME I, however, and at the end, we are reminded why he is truly the King of Gambler Kings.

    Lau Siu Ming as Sau Dai Chin: The ultimate evil Gambler King, sometimes called the "Gambler Demon." Has a fetish for chopping off the hands of those who lose games to him (which is everybody who ever played against him during his 70-year long career) and displaying those severed hands in glass jars and cases at his casino. This guy is seriously scary.

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    I would like to buy the DVD boxed set that includes both THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II but Yesasia would not ship it to Canada where I live. Does anyone know where I can purchase this dvd online other than Yesasia?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluejay View Post
    I would like to buy the DVD boxed set that includes both THE SHELL GAME I and THE SHELL GAME II but Yesasia would not ship it to Canada where I live. Does anyone know where I can purchase this dvd online other than Yesasia?
    Your own Canadian retailer MAL Music (based in Vancouver, I believe) probably carries it.

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    That's the problem. Malmusic only carries the VCD sets released by TVBI which I have already. I guess I would have to wait for TVB to release the DVD version which could be a long wait.
    Last edited by bluejay; 08-15-09 at 12:50 AM.

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    I am re-watching SGI to see all the missing episodes and wonder if someone can enlighten me on how Lo4Hoi won the mah-jong game against Cheuk1fu. I don't play Mah-Jong so I don't understand what happened with his set of tiles. Why did he say he couldn't continue to play the game? Also, how did his set of tiles miraculously change? Is this what is meant by gambling king? I understand having a quick hand but c'mon! How did he make them change completely? Are we to believe he switched them all with the other tiles on the table?! Lastly, what was going on when he and Cheuk were "fighting" before the match? My Chinese isn't good enough to understand why they were arm-fighting. Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    I am re-watching SGI to see all the missing episodes and wonder if someone can enlighten me on how Lo4Hoi won the mah-jong game against Cheuk1fu. I don't play Mah-Jong so I don't understand what happened with his set of tiles. Why did he say he couldn't continue to play the game?
    I don't know much about mahjong myself, but I believe Lo 4 Hoi drew mahjong's equivalent of a royal flush.

    Also, how did his set of tiles miraculously change? Is this what is meant by gambling king?
    Yep.

    I understand having a quick hand but c'mon! How did he make them change completely? Are we to believe he switched them all with the other tiles on the table?!
    Chin-sheurt, Chinese gambling skills, often take on an almost magical aspect at the highest levels.

    Lastly, what was going on when he and Cheuk were "fighting" before the match? My Chinese isn't good enough to understand why they were arm-fighting.
    That was how they verified that each other did not have any tiles or other tricks literally hidden up their sleeves.

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