Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 123

Thread: THE SHELL GAME (千王之王) (1980) Thread

  1. #81
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Ah, thanks Ken for the speedy reply! Back to watching the show...

  2. #82
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    I finally finished re-watching SG and saw the missing episodes. It's strange, though, b/c the ending on both the VCD and DVD versions that i have seem to cut off prematurely. Can someone tell me how the ending is supposed to happen? I see Tam Sing up on the balcony just rethinking the past. But I read here or somewhere else that a kid asks him to be his Si Fu? I didn't see that in either versions that I have. If that is how it ends, what did Tam Sing say to the kid?

    Second question is what did Cheut 1 Fu say to Tam Sing at the very end? He said it was something that he and Lo4Hoi hadn't yet taught him. Was it to honor your teacher? My cantonese isn't good enough.

    Lastly, it was mentioned here but I wholeheartedly agree that Lo4Hoi really took a backseat in this show after he went blind. This strikes me as rather odd. He lost a lot of his charisma imo. I would think he'd catch Tam Sing turning to the "dark side" before it actually happened. Anyways, just my 2cents.

  3. #83
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    I finally finished re-watching SG and saw the missing episodes. It's strange, though, b/c the ending on both the VCD and DVD versions that i have seem to cut off prematurely. Can someone tell me how the ending is supposed to happen? I see Tam Sing up on the balcony just rethinking the past. But I read here or somewhere else that a kid asks him to be his Si Fu? I didn't see that in either versions that I have. If that is how it ends, what did Tam Sing say to the kid?
    The full ending, which both the VCD and DVD missed (but was shown during the original broadcasts of the series during the 1980s) was actually rather lighthearted, and helped to end the series on a relatively happy and humorous note.

    It ends, yes, with a naive young man from Hong Kong standing on the street saying that he really admires Tam Sing and wants Tam Sing to accept him as his student. Tam Sing immediately sees his younger self in the young man, and with a sly smile on his face, invites the young man up to the apartment. Then, he plays the EXACT same trick on the youngster that Lo 4 Hoi played on him years ago when Tam Sing begged Lo to accept him as a student: the youngster comes out of the bathroom with all his clothes gone and only a bucket to cover his private parts, chasing after Tam Sing, who rides away in his limousine with an amused smile on his face.

    It's a shame that the VCD and DVD both cut out that final scene, because after all the tragedy of the final episode, it was nice to end the series on a lighthearted, humorous note.

    On the DVD, however, the cut ending does provide a good lead-in to THE SHELL GAME II.

    Second question is what did Cheut 1 Fu say to Tam Sing at the very end? He said it was something that he and Lo4Hoi hadn't yet taught him. Was it to honor your teacher?
    Close enough: the Cantonese phrase "jeun see jun dao" means to honor one's teacher and advance the teacher's philosophy and teachings. It's the highest honor that a student can pay to his teacher. Tam Sing achieved this when he learned the importance of mercy. He took a step back from disregarding the six relations and reclaiming his humanity and his ethics.

    Lastly, it was mentioned here but I wholeheartedly agree that Lo4Hoi really took a backseat in this show after he went blind. This strikes me as rather odd. He lost a lot of his charisma imo. I would think he'd catch Tam Sing turning to the "dark side" before it actually happened. Anyways, just my 2cents.
    To me, Lo 4 Hoi's story pretty much came to an end after he confessed his love to Tam Siu Tong. From that point on, the series was more Tam Sing and Cheuk 1 Fu's.

    But I think Lo 4 Hoi continued to play an important role as Tam Sing's conscience. Among all the Gambler Kings that appear in THE SHELL GAME and THE SHELL GAME II, I think that Lo 4 Hoi and Ah Lung (Chow Yun Fat's character in THE SHELL GAME II) are the most ethical. They are men ruled by conscience and compassion, and winning is not as important to them as playing fair and doing the right thing.

  4. #84
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Thanks a lot, Ken, for the info! I am so disappointed that the ending was cut. With the way it ends now, it leaves me feeling really depressed. I am also disappointed that Lo didn't get any attention during his final scene in this show. His last scene in the show was practically all focused on Cheut. And the fact that Tam Sing didn't even see Lo and Siu Tong off makes me think he didn't have the fond affection he did for Cheut.

  5. #85
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    Thanks a lot, Ken, for the info! I am so disappointed that the ending was cut. With the way it ends now, it leaves me feeling really depressed. I am also disappointed that Lo didn't get any attention during his final scene in this show. His last scene in the show was practically all focused on Cheut. And the fact that Tam Sing didn't even see Lo and Siu Tong off makes me think he didn't have the fond affection he did for Cheut.
    I know. I always felt that it was kind of odd that Lo 4 Hoi and Tam Siu Tong, who were the focus of the series early on, had a sort of paltry send off at the end of the series. Their story sort of just stopped unceremoniously (although after one "farewell on the ship" scene for Cheuk 1 Fu, it would have been awkward to slip another one in immediately afterward for Lo 4 Hoi and Tam Siu Tong).

    At the beginning of THE SHELL GAME II, we learn that Cheuk 1 Fu has recently died (of old age/illness, apparently), but we get no updates on Lo 4 Hoi. I guess we're left to assume that he's still living happily in Singapore, having left gong wu forever.

  6. #86
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I know. I always felt that it was kind of odd that Lo 4 Hoi and Tam Siu Tong, who were the focus of the series early on, had a sort of paltry send off at the end of the series. Their story sort of just stopped unceremoniously (although after one "farewell on the ship" scene for Cheuk 1 Fu, it would have been awkward to slip another one in immediately afterward for Lo 4 Hoi and Tam Siu Tong).

    At the beginning of THE SHELL GAME II, we learn that Cheuk 1 Fu has recently died (of old age/illness, apparently), but we get no updates on Lo 4 Hoi. I guess we're left to assume that he's still living happily in Singapore, having left gong wu forever.
    I'm just starting SGII. They did a pretty good makeup job on Tam Sing. He does look older but those glasses (ay!) As for the ending with Lo4Hoi, they could have had him talk to Tam Sing the night before his departure and given him some words of wisdom (similar to the scene with Siu Tong). Almost anything would have been better than the way he left the show! I would like to think Lo4Hoi is living happily with Siu Tong and their kiddie. I am saddened that Cheut passed away, though. I grew to really like him in SGI because he had a good sense of humor and some really great phrases (such as the one I needed your help with!) Off topic, since you are the moderator, is there somewhere on this forum where we can get updates on stars? I'm curious what happened to the woman who played Cheut Lei. She's a pretty good actress imo. I'm just wondering what happened to her.

  7. #87
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    I'm just starting SGII. They did a pretty good makeup job on Tam Sing. He does look older but those glasses (ay!) As for the ending with Lo4Hoi, they could have had him talk to Tam Sing the night before his departure and given him some words of wisdom (similar to the scene with Siu Tong).
    That would have been nice. In a way, the final (cut) scene was a sort of tribute to Lo 4 Hoi because it showed that Tam Sing had reverted back to the good side. In using the exact same harmless (and funny) trick on that youngster who wanted to be his student, Tam Sing was honoring the more compassionate Southern swindling tradition that Lo 4 Hoi represented. Tam Sing also adopted Lo 4 Hoi's style and mannerisms (the white silk gown, the white cigarette holder, and the white fan).

    I am saddened that Cheut passed away, though. I grew to really like him in SGI because he had a good sense of humor and some really great phrases (such as the one I needed your help with!)
    At least he died a good death, although apparently his funeral provided him one final adventure.

    Off topic, since you are the moderator, is there somewhere on this forum where we can get updates on stars? I'm curious what happened to the woman who played Cheut Lei. She's a pretty good actress imo. I'm just wondering what happened to her.
    Cheuk Lei was played by actress Regina Tsang Hing Yu. Other than playing Cheuk Lei, Regina Tsang is also known for having played the character of Ying Goo in the Jin Yong wuxia adaptations LEGEND OF THE CONDOR HEROES '82 and RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES '83. After finishing work on ROCH '83, however, Regina Tsang left Hong Kong and became a television hostess on Taiwanese television, where she's been successful ever since (she also had a moderately successful career as a recording artist in Taiwan). She has not been seen on Hong Kong television since the early 1980s, however.

  8. #88
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    That would have been nice. In a way, the final (cut) scene was a sort of tribute to Lo 4 Hoi because it showed that Tam Sing had reverted back to the good side. In using the exact same harmless (and funny) trick on that youngster who wanted to be his student, Tam Sing was honoring the more compassionate Southern swindling tradition that Lo 4 Hoi represented. Tam Sing also adopted Lo 4 Hoi's style and mannerisms (the white silk gown, the white cigarette holder, and the white fan).
    How do you know about how the uncut version ended? You just remember it from way back? I am very impressed! I can't wait to see how SGII unfolds!

  9. #89
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    How do you know about how the uncut version ended? You just remember it from way back? I am very impressed! I can't wait to see how SGII unfolds!
    I first watched THE SHELL GAME on local television (Los Angeles) back when the series was broadcast for the first time in L.A. in 1980/1981. In those days, the series were broadcast overseas exactly the same way they were broadcast in Hong Kong. The editing butchery didn't begin until the series were re-released on VCD and DVD.

    Old 1980s VHS rental tapes might include the original ending, but I can't be sure because I never watched THE SHELL GAME on rental VHS...only my parents' thirty-year old original VHS tapes of the television broadcast (it's funny to see TV commercials for restaurants and car dealerships that went out of business decades ago).

    THE SHELL GAME II is very twisty in its plot. Cleverly, TVB did not try to make THE SHELL GAME II a complete repeat of THE SHELL GAME I. Although II has some similarities to I, it takes things to a whole new level.

    Chow Yun Fat's character Ah Lung steals this series, however. He's the main character of II and he asserts his personality over the series much more than Simon Yam did as Tam Sing in I.

  10. #90
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I first watched THE SHELL GAME on local television (Los Angeles) back when the series was broadcast for the first time in L.A. in 1980/1981. In those days, the series were broadcast overseas exactly the same way they were broadcast in Hong Kong. The editing butchery didn't begin until the series were re-released on VCD and DVD.
    I remember the broadcast on TV but I was too young to appreciate the show. I thought it was so boring and didn't pay much attention to it. I've gotta try to dig up my parents' old VHS tapes! They're going to think I'm nuts!

  11. #91
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    I remember the broadcast on TV but I was too young to appreciate the show. I thought it was so boring and didn't pay much attention to it. I've gotta try to dig up my parents' old VHS tapes! They're going to think I'm nuts!
    Are your parents also based in Southern California? Was it the original 1980/1981 broadcast? I know TVB has rerun the series locally a few times during the later 1980s and 1990s, but I don't know if those rebroadcasts were as purely unedited as the original 1980/1981 broadcast.

  12. #92
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Are your parents also based in Southern California? Was it the original 1980/1981 broadcast? I know TVB has rerun the series locally a few times during the later 1980s and 1990s, but I don't know if those rebroadcasts were as purely unedited as the original 1980/1981 broadcast.
    i'm pretty sure it was the orig 80/81 broadcast but it will be a challenge trying to find those tapes in their home b/c they have quite a collection!

  13. #93
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    She exhibited her gambling skills only once, during a brief card match against Tam Sing late in the series (he beat her, but only because he showed his hand first - they both had four Aces). Of course, this raises the question of where she learned such gambling skills from: I doubt that her adoptive father, Cheuk 1 Fu, taught her such skills.
    Ken - a question on the match b/w Tam Sing and Cheut Lei (which was one of the missing scenes from the cut version). Why did Tam Sing get to show his hand first?

  14. #94
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    Ken - a question on the match b/w Tam Sing and Cheut Lei (which was one of the missing scenes from the cut version). Why did Tam Sing get to show his hand first?
    Unless the rules of the game say that the guest gets to show hand first (don't know; not a poker expert at all), I'm guessing that he just knew that he had to make the first move if he wanted to win.

    (S)He who hesitates is lost.

  15. #95
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Unless the rules of the game say that the guest gets to show hand first (don't know; not a poker expert at all), I'm guessing that he just knew that he had to make the first move if he wanted to win.

    (S)He who hesitates is lost.
    Interesting. Thanks a lot for the speedy reply!

  16. #96
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    I finally finished SGII (was up until 2am)! So, here are my initial questions from this movie:
    a) I really thought Ah-Lung was the King of Gambler Kings b/c he managed to do the 6 relations thing, didn't he? He lied to his teacher, family, love. Why didn't he manage to beat Dai Chin?
    b) Why do you think Tam Sing cared so much to help 1 Siu? You think he really cared for Ah-Lung? He barely knew him.
    c) Ah-Lung initially planned to go looking for 1Siu with Dai Chin. What do you think his plan was?
    d) Who is the real King of Gambler Kings? Tam Sing? He probably wouldn't have outbeat Dai Chin in tabletop.
    e) I had a lot of trouble watching the scenes with the little boy. He was so cute, so devoted to his father and it made me so sad to see him being mistreated by 1 Siu. What's the kid's name? Anyone know what happened to him in show biz? I remember seeing him in several shows in the 80s, always thought he did a pretty good job. Hope I don't hear he was a brat like so many kid actors.

    As for my thoughts on this show, I thought it was good but I liked SGI better. The beginning of SGII was pretty boring for me but it picked after Si Ling became the tutor and Ah-Lung moved in and the show soon had me hooked. Both SG1 and II are so tragic. I think I need to take a break from these kinds of shows. They make me feel so depressed and empty. I better not watch The Bund (which was next on my list). Maybe rewatch Condor Heroes or something. Man, so sad...

  17. #97
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    I finally finished SGII (was up until 2am)! So, here are my initial questions from this movie:
    a) I really thought Ah-Lung was the King of Gambler Kings b/c he managed to do the 6 relations thing, didn't he? He lied to his teacher, family, love. Why didn't he manage to beat Dai Chin?
    Because Ah Lung was too merciful. He didn't have the heartlessness necessary to finish off Sau Dai Chin. He should have *killed* Sau when he had the chance, but being a kind man at heart, Ah Lung let Sau go...much to his regret.

    b) Why do you think Tam Sing cared so much to help 1 Siu? You think he really cared for Ah-Lung? He barely knew him.
    I think it goes back to what Lo 4 Hoi had taught Tam Sing back in THE SHELL GAME I: the ethical, heroic use of chin seurt. Tam Sing had already seen how destructive chin seurt could be when used for evil, and there was no greater evil in chin seurt than Sau Dai Chin. He had terrorized the world of chin seurt for decades, so Tam Sing took it upon himself to rid the world of this menace.

    I think Tam Sing had reached a high level of enlightenment in THE SHELL GAME II: he understood that his skills and knowledge were not to be used for his own ambitions, but to uphold justice.

    c) Ah-Lung initially planned to go looking for 1Siu with Dai Chin. What do you think his plan was?
    I think it was just part of the ruse to entrap Sau Dai Chin. Ah Lung had set everything up to take Sau Dai Chin down.

    d) Who is the real King of Gambler Kings? Tam Sing? He probably wouldn't have outbeat Dai Chin in tabletop.
    Maybe, maybe not...but Tam Sing definitely outwitted Sau Dai Chin. Tam Sing won because he knew how to beat Sau Dai Chin, and it was not going to be the tabletop.

    It's the principle of attacking the enemy's weakness with your own strength. Tam Sing did this brilliantly against Sau Dai Chin.

    e) I had a lot of trouble watching the scenes with the little boy. He was so cute, so devoted to his father and it made me so sad to see him being mistreated by 1 Siu. What's the kid's name? Anyone know what happened to him in show biz? I remember seeing him in several shows in the 80s, always thought he did a pretty good job. Hope I don't hear he was a brat like so many kid actors.
    I don't know his name, but this boy was among TVB's most prominent child actors of all time. In addition to his role as Tao 1 Siu's son in THE SHELL GAME II, he also played the young Gwok Jing in LOCH '82 and the young Yeung Gor in ROCH '83. After he became an adult, he moved into the radio DJ business in Hong Kong. I think he's still in the radio business, but I haven't heard much about him in recent years.

    I better not watch The Bund (which was next on my list). Maybe rewatch Condor Heroes or something. Man, so sad...
    Heh. After you recover (maybe you should watch a comedy), then you can watch THE BUND. That's even more depressing than THE SHELL GAMES. It really gives you insight into the darkness of human nature.

  18. #98
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    The Bund is even more depressing?!! Oh, man, I don't know if I can handle that. I really need to take a break from these types of drama. It's really hard to do, though, because I was so looking forward to The Bund. Did Chow do The Bund first or SGII?

    Few more questions that have come to mind...first, a question on this Chin Suet. How come in some instances, the person seem to be able to see the other side's card and switch it (like when 1 Siu lost) but in others, he can't (like when Dai Chin was up against Si Ling)?

    I just rewatched the scene where Ah-Lung dies. What was he expecting Dai Chin's card to be? I don't know gambling so I don't get what's going on here. Why would Ah-Lung bet his life?

    Who was that guy that Ah-Lung hired who beat Dai Chin (the scene where his eye is injured)? Seems like someone that good would be a Chin Wong.
    Last edited by addicted2tvb; 10-04-09 at 01:28 AM.

  19. #99
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,975

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addicted2tvb View Post
    The Bund is even more depressing?!! Oh, man, I don't know if I can handle that. I really need to take a break from these types of drama. It's really hard to do, though, because I was so looking forward to The Bund.
    If you liked THE SHELL GAME series, you'll *love* THE BUND. While THE SHELL GAME was an entertaining and well-made series, THE BUND was simply Art (yes, with a capital "A").

    The stories are depressing, but not in that emo sort of depressing. It's a sort of heroic depressing.

    Did Chow do The Bund first or SGII?
    THE BUND was made and broadcast about a year and a half before THE SHELL GAME II.

    You've got to watch THE BUND for Chow Yun Fat's legendary gangster icon, Hui Mun Keung, alone. Hui Mun Keung might very well be the greatest character in TVB history. He was the embodiment of the word "cool."

    Few more questions that have come to mind...first, a question on this Chin Suet. How come in some instances, the person seem to be able to see the other side's card and switch it (like when 1 Siu lost) but in others, he can't (like when Dai Chin was up against Si Ling)?
    I don't think Sau Dai Chin half tried with Fok See Ling. He totally misread her. Tao 1 Siu (on Tam Sing's advice) had set up a Sting plot to entrap Sau Dai Chin. It essentially caused Sau to defeat himself by folding prematurely.

    I just rewatched the scene where Ah-Lung dies. What was he expecting Dai Chin's card to be? I don't know gambling so I don't get what's going on here. Why would Ah-Lung bet his life?
    Ah Lung was confident that he could overcome Sau Dai Chin's mind tricks. What Ah Lung didn't count on was that Sau Dai Chin's fundamental card playing skills were also extremely high. Without resorting to actual chin seurt, Sau was able to beat Ah Lung.

    Who was that guy that Ah-Lung hired who beat Dai Chin (the scene where his eye is injured)? Seems like someone that good would be a Chin Wong.
    We don't know much about him other than that he supposedly had been banned from all American and European casinos (although that might be a cover story). He was either a highly skilled second-class lo chin, or simply an actor that Ah Lung hired to play a role.

  20. #100
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    If you liked THE SHELL GAME series, you'll *love* THE BUND. While THE SHELL GAME was an entertaining and well-made series, THE BUND was simply Art (yes, with a capital "A").
    I know The Bund will be an amazing show. I just don't know if I can handle another heroic death right now. I am still getting over Ah-Lung's death. Good people aren't supposed to die, ya know?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Ah Lung was confident that he could overcome Sau Dai Chin's mind tricks. What Ah Lung didn't count on was that Sau Dai Chin's fundamental card playing skills were also extremely high. Without resorting to actual chin seurt, Sau was able to beat Ah Lung.
    I still don't get it. Wouldn't Ah-Lung know Dai Chin could read his card? From the scene, it sounds like Ah-Lung expected Dai Chin to use some magic which he said he didn't. What was Ah-Lung expecting Dai Chin to do? Switch his card to something else?[/quote]2617]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    We don't know much about him other than that he supposedly had been banned from all American and European casinos (although that might be a cover story). He was either a highly skilled second-class lo chin, or simply an actor that Ah Lung hired to play a role.
    Yeah, it wasn't clear to me if this guy was hired by Ah-Lung to pretend to be what's her name's boyfriend or if he truly was.

Similar Threads

  1. Diao Man Gong Zhu Xiao Yao Wang 《刁蛮公主逍遥王》
    By oaktree in forum Mainland China TV Series
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 12-22-13, 04:11 PM
  2. The King of Snookers 《桌球天王》
    By LuckyMx in forum TVB Series
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 06-29-09, 03:19 AM
  3. Hail to the Judge 《棟篤狀王》
    By om369 in forum Mainland China TV Series
    Replies: 54
    Last Post: 02-19-07, 03:52 AM
  4. Shell Games 1980
    By sunnyho in forum TVB Series
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-15-06, 12:26 AM
  5. Shell game 2
    By rokko99 in forum TVB Series
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 03-25-06, 12:51 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •