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Thread: This is China- a land of pollution.

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp222 View Post
    Interesting reading the replies, I guess people have seen some certain youtube videos. I can't blame the people much though, because people gotta do what they've gotta do to survive or "modernize."
    Yes, they have every right to modernize their society, but they should do it the right way. That is growth their economy responsibly. I don't think anyone is blaming china for modernize their society, but they should do it the right way. They should build infrustructures that are needed and clean their environment.

    It seems poor people just tend to have a lot more kids than rich or educated ones. This can not only be observed, but proven by looking at the GDP per capita. Vietnam, China and India are the three countries with the highest population(or in the case of Vietnam, population density), all with a GDP under 10000.
    It is still a long way to go for their gdp to climb to 10,000.

    One thing I will credit China is their policy of one child per family(though their population isn't projected to go down until 2030). Wish the Viet government would do the same. Saving anything starts with reducing the population.
    Contrary to many people here, I agree that one child policy is a good thing.

    The biggest virus of all, however, is still the US, who consumes 75% of the world's resources. It seems that a comfortable lifestyle comes at a great cost to the environment. It bring ups some issues with capitalism, which is pretty long to write here, but let's just say, no system will work if people only look to consume and not contribute.
    Nah, no doubt that the US is consuming more than average but they deserve it. They work for it. Gotta go now, will write more.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Yes, they have every right to modernize their society, but they should do it the right way. That is growth their economy responsibly. I don't think anyone is blaming china for modernize their society, but they should do it the right way. They should build infrustructures that are needed and clean their environment.



    It is still a long way to go for their gdp to climb to 10,000.



    Contrary to many people here, I agree that one child policy is a good thing.



    Nah, no doubt that the US is consuming more than average but they deserve it. They work for it. Gotta go now, will write more.
    On a purchasing power parity basis, China’s per capita GDP is about $10,000. They have the widest gap between the rich and the poor though. Ironically, the commy country is the least communist in the world on those terms.

    Why do you say the US “deserves” it? How will you make the case that the US “does” and China “does not”?
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Yes, they have every right to modernize their society, but they should do it the right way. That is growth their economy responsibly. I don't think anyone is blaming china for modernize their society, but they should do it the right way. They should build infrustructures that are needed and clean their environment.



    It is still a long way to go for their gdp to climb to 10,000.



    Contrary to many people here, I agree that one child policy is a good thing.



    Nah, no doubt that the US is consuming more than average but they deserve it. They work for it. Gotta go now, will write more.
    As always, I really question your logic.....What is the "right way" to you?? You just sit there and say that, but it is not that easy you know.

    Why do you think the one child policy is a good thing?? I think there is both good and bad. One of the bad things is that there is a shortage of girls so a lot of guys are left with no girls to marry due to the gender imbalance.

    I live in the US and like it, but why does the US deserve to use all of the resources?? WHy does the US deserve it and other countries don't??
    Respect other people's opinions and views. If we learn how to do that than all of these fights and arguments will not occur.

  4. #24
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    Why do you think the one child policy is a good thing?? I think there is both good and bad. One of the bad things is that there is a shortage of girls so a lot of guys are left with no girls to marry due to the gender imbalance.
    That is not really the policy's problem, it is the society's problem. The people brought it upon themselves. I don't feel sorry for them lacking girls.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    On a purchasing power parity basis, China’s per capita GDP is about $10,000. They have the widest gap between the rich and the poor though. Ironically, the commy country is the least communist in the world on those terms.

    Why do you say the US “deserves” it? How will you make the case that the US “does” and China “does not”?
    Quote Originally Posted by Trinie View Post
    As always, I really question your logic.....What is the "right way" to you?? You just sit there and say that, but it is not that easy you know.

    Why do you think the one child policy is a good thing?? I think there is both good and bad. One of the bad things is that there is a shortage of girls so a lot of guys are left with no girls to marry due to the gender imbalance.

    I live in the US and like it, but why does the US deserve to use all of the resources?? WHy does the US deserve it and other countries don't??
    Economically, China is no longer a communist. China is a capitalist country. Well, I do think US needs to be more responsible as well. It's unstainable to run huge deposit every year. I do think every country deserve to use as much resources as they can as long as they earn them from hard work. I believe every country has every right to build their economy but as the same time I believe they should do it responsibly. So far, China is not responsible as she has been dumping pollutions into rivers and lakes for decades. As for shortage of girls, I think GX gave a very good explanation.

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    Something will have gone out of us as a people if we ever let the remaining wilderness be destroyed,
    ...if we permit the last virgin forests to be turned into comic books and plastic cigarette cases,
    ...if we drive the few remaining members of the wild species into zoos or to extinction,
    ... if we pollute the last clear air and dirty the last clean streams and push our paved roads through the last of the silence, so that never again will people be free in their own country from the noise, the exhausts, the stinks of human and automotive waste.


    The health effects of air pollution imperil human lives. This fact is well-documented.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tp222 View Post
    The biggest virus of all, however, is still the US, who consumes 75% of the world's resources. It seems that a comfortable lifestyle comes at a great cost to the environment. It bring ups some issues with capitalism, which is pretty long to write here, but let's just say, no system will work if people only look to consume and not contribute.
    You overly exaggerated the situation. The US only consumes 20% of the world's resources, not 75%.
    http://www.mindfully.org/Sustainabil...ercialized.htm
    Although the fastest population growth is happening in Africa an American's impact on the environment will be over 250 times greater than a Sub-Saharan African. With only one-twentieth of the world's population, Americans consume 20% of its resources.

  8. #28
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    However, to put “only” 25% in perspective, the US accounts for only 4.5 percent of the world’s population…
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
    SOD Pt. 7 updated Jan. 6, '08

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    However, to put “only” 25% in perspective, the US accounts for only 4.5 percent of the world’s population…
    Why did you exaggerate again?

  10. #30
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    I was talking about energy consumption.

    Even if we look at things from resources as a whole instead of energy, and if 20% of natural resources, which you mention, is correct (I have not verified this), the point still stands. The US disproportionately uses resources.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    Even if we look at things from resources as a whole instead of energy, and if 20% of natural resources, which you mention, is correct (I have not verified this), the point still stands. The US disproportionately uses resources.
    Which makes sense, it is one of the richest countries. If you look at energy consumption of developed nations, I would imagine they all use more energy than proportional to their population.

  12. #32
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    same pile of sh1t goes in the U.S as well. it just hides it better. Look at the area where they tested nukes, people around the area gets cancer and many other weird crap happen to them. Or the areas that had industries, everytime it rain it would be acid rain. It just recently in the past 2 decades the U.S have put out policies that made the environment a bit cleaner. China's growth is rapid and just in the last 2 decades or so. I think China can clean themselves within the next decade.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    Which makes sense, it is one of the richest countries. If you look at energy consumption of developed nations, I would imagine they all use more energy than proportional to their population.
    Right. It makes sense that developed nations would use more energy, but just because it makes sense, it doesn't mean they don't use more energy than other countries. And with more emerging countries becoming "developed" over time, it just means more energy strains.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    I was talking about energy consumption.

    Even if we look at things from resources as a whole instead of energy, and if 20% of natural resources, which you mention, is correct (I have not verified this), the point still stands. The US disproportionately uses resources.
    According the the following website, the US consumes about 24% of energy, not 25%. But to be fair when we talk about resources, we should talk about in general, not energy alone.

    Yes, the US still use more than average but that is all fair and square as the world is not communist where everyones get exactly the same thing regardless of hard work. It's only fair that north americans (US & Canada) use more energy than the rest because we are so much bigger in term of area. We need cars for transportation. Instead of comparing energy consumption per capita basis, why don't we compare energy consumption in term of area? Canada is bigger and has much more energy supply than China, but we consume way less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jiang bao View Post
    Right. It makes sense that developed nations would use more energy, but just because it makes sense, it doesn't mean they don't use more energy than other countries. And with more emerging countries becoming "developed" over time, it just means more energy strains.
    Developed nations do use more energy, because there is stronger demand for them in those countries.

    You seem disturbed by the "energy strain" issue but realise the market will price accordingly and technology is more than keeping up our usage.

  16. #36
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    You keep vaguely referring to “technology,” but by what metric are you saying that technology is “keeping pace”? Can you clarify and provide some data?

    In terms of pricing, we can kinda see where the high energy costs of ’08 got us, can’t we. Energy costs wasn’t the only factor that caused the financial crisis/global recession, but it certainly had a hand. What’s going to happen when oil is above $100 per barrel or higher again? So if the market prices oil “accordingly,” do you think that will have no effect on the other aspects of the world?
    Last edited by jiang bao; 11-05-09 at 12:46 PM.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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  17. #37
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    Surely I don't have to list out the improvements to engines, heating, lighting, solar, wind, nuclear power and all that in the past decades. That's all GK.

    Oil being over $100 a barrel is no news to us. We more than well coped with it. As I also suggested earlier, higher oil prices shifts people's demand for oil to alternative sources too.

  18. #38
    Senior Member jiang bao's Avatar
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    I’ve said this earlier, but again, the problem is that technology isn’t just going to happen. For example, how is solar cells going to magically reach 60% conversion efficiency when the highest conversion efficiency’s in the teens right now? The most affordable ones, made by First Solar, are more like 10%. Execution problems with infrastructure, energy, materials, time, etc. I’ve mentioned above aren’t just going to disappear.

    To be clear, my point is that the progress in technology is not enough to make material difference. It's not going to increase the amount of oil in the ground. The only longterm solution is alternative energy, but for the reasons I've listed before, we need to start early and commit to it. Or by the time when people relying on magic technology realize that technology has limits and we need alternative energies on a huge scale, it'd be too late.
    Last edited by jiang bao; 11-06-09 at 12:01 PM.
    What are you fighting for? Just mix them into pissing beef balls, stupid.
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  19. #39
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    You'd be hard pressed to find something that can adequately replace oil for vehicles. The whole infrastructure around vehicles would need an overhaul.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    You'd be hard pressed to find something that can adequately replace oil for vehicles. The whole infrastructure around vehicles would need an overhaul.
    The problem is not vehicle but big vehicles. If consumers are willing to drive smaller cars instead of big SUV, then consumption of oil would be greatly reduced.

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