Yang Xiao Runs the Gauntlet...

[Sentry]

The Left Messenger of Ming Cult has been given a list of Wulin figures who are deemed threats to his beloved cult and is ordered to assasinate them. Yang Xiao's mission is to take out everyone on this list beginning with the first person. After he kills each one he will have up to a full day's rest before moving onto the next target on the list. Assuming character morals will not apply and the targets do not have help, can Yang Xiao clear out this list?

1. Chen Youliang
2. Song Qing Shu (pre 9 yin bone claw)
3. Elderly couple who lives near Shaolin, the ones Cheung Mo Gei meet prior to the Lion Assembly
4. Kunlun sect leaders He Tai Chong & his wife
5. Yin Ye Wang
6. Golden Flower Granny
7. MieJue Shitai w/ heaven sword
8. Wudang hero #2



Please forgive me if I didn't get the names or something right, most of my knowledge comes from tv adaptations & translations.

[Shi-Potian]

he can assassinate up to yin ye wang at which point he will be stonewalled by him the grnny and possibly wudang hero #2, he mya be able to kill mei jue though

[Sentry]

If he can kill Mie Jue couldn't he also slaughter the granny? The granny did lose to Mie Jue when the latter had the heaven sword.

[tape]

He wouldn't be able to kill Chen Youliang due to his intelligence for plot reasons.

It always amazes me how intelligence (Huang Rong, Yang Guo when he was weak, Wei XIaobao, Linghu Chong at times etc) can somehow let them survive in wulin. There are so many non main characters who get slaughtered in the blink of the eye before they get to talk, so I'd imagine any amount of intelligence wouldn't be very useful.

[Sentry]

What if we assume Chen Youliang is incapable of saving himelf from a duel with Yang Xiao and cannot escape the situation with his brain? How far could Yang Xiao go from there?

[PJ]

1. Chen Youliang
2. Song Qing Shu (pre 9 yin bone claw)
3. Elderly couple who lives near Shaolin, the ones Cheung Mo Gei meet prior to the Lion Assembly
4. Kunlun sect leaders He Tai Chong & his wife
5. Yin Ye Wang

Yang Xiao would have no problem disposing of the above candidates.

6. Golden Flower Granny
7. MieJue Shitai w/ heaven sword
8. Wudang hero #2

Each of the above 3 fighters is an equal to Yang Xiao. Miejue with Heavenly Sword would get a big boost. So, Yang Xiao may not be able to match her.

[Trinie]

Why is Golden Flower Granny on the list?? She was a former member of the Ming Sect and was still a member of the Persian Ming Sect so why would she set out to do anything bad to harm the Ming Sect? I know that she did not help them when they were being attacked by Wulin, however, I don't think she would do anything to hurt the Ming sect either....

[Sentry]

Perhaps she succeeded in stealing the QKDNY manual from the cult and is trying to flee back to Persia...?

[charbydis]

Didn't Yang Xiao once beat the crap out of MieJue's senior who was armed with the Yi Tian Sword at the time? So logically, he should also be able to beat Mie Jue with the Heavenly Sword in a fair fight.

But I doubt Yang Xiao would get through Golen Flower Granny that easily since she is one of the Four Protectors and skilled in Persian martial arts which can be unpredicatable and confusing to a Chinese martial artist.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Yang Xiao seemed to be superior to the Four Guardian Kings in general (Xie Xun being the possible exception), esp. after his mastery of some low level Qiankun Danoyi. I'm pretty sure he'd be able to take out Tajkis, who seemed to me to be one of the weaker Guardian Kings.

Similarly, Song Yuanqiao (the eldest and presumably strongest of the Wudang disciples) seemed to be on par with Yin Tianzheng, and as of the beginning of the novel, Xie Xun was portrayed both by himself as well as Zhang Cuishan as being significantly superior to Song Yuanqiao. Xie Xun seemed to be very confident in his ability to kill him, and Zhang Cuishan agreed. Again, I think Yang Xiao should be able to take the 2nd hero.

The only question is Mie Jue w/the Heaven Sword...but I still think he would take her.

[PJ]

and as of the beginning of the novel, Xie Xun was portrayed both by himself as well as Zhang Cuishan as being significantly superior to Song Yuanqiao. Xie Xun seemed to be very confident in his ability to kill him, and Zhang Cuishan agreed.

It was said that while Xie Xun would have been able to kill Song Yuanqiao years ago, when Wuji reaches age 20 (10 years after Zhang Sanfeng's 100th birthday), Song Yuanqiao and Yu Lianzhou will be on the same wavelength as Xie Xun even if he wasn't blind.

[tape]

Was that author's narration or opinion of Zhang Cuisan ?

Yang Xiao is a badass. I wish that scene didn't exist where 20% Xuan Ming palm wtfpwned him. It makes him look much weaker than he is. And on a sidenote, even someone with Yang Xiao's intelligence and lower level Qian Kun, he still was nowhere near Great level even well into his prime. There was not many people he was not superior to even in his 20's-30's, and he seems to be an extraordinary talent. This just makes me feel Zhang Cuisan definitely wouldn't make Great level either, as it's pretty much one in a million to do so, and it takes a lot more than having high intelligence + good master. It takes a ton of other variables.

[PJ]

Was that author's narration or opinion of Zhang Cuisan ?

It was the thought of Zhang Cuishan, who admittedly conceived the most notorious mis-judgment of martial arts of all time (that Xie Xun was only slightly weaker than Zhang Sanfeng). But this time, his judgment was based on comparing Song Yuanqiao's feat with Xie Xun's feats, so it should be more accurate. And he also compared his own martial arts with Xie Xun's to form the conclusion.

I wish that scene didn't exist where 20% Xuan Ming palm wtfpwned him. It makes him look much weaker than he is.

Actually, there were several other scenes that made me think he's not stronger than a Ming Cult Guardian Lord. For example, he wasn't able to outrun Yin Tianzheng one bit at Wudang. And he didn't perform any better than Yin Tianzheng against Dunan (martial arts wise).

And on a sidenote, even someone with Yang Xiao's intelligence and lower level Qian Kun, he still was nowhere near Great level even well into his prime. There was not many people he was not superior to even in his 20's-30's, and he seems to be an extraordinary talent. This just makes me feel Zhang Cuisan definitely wouldn't make Great level either, as it's pretty much one in a million to do so, and it takes a lot more than having high intelligence + good master. It takes a ton of other variables.

Yes, Yang Xiao is quite intelligent, but I doubt he was as talented as Zhang Cuishan. My impression of Zhang Cuishan became greater when I learned that he had reproduced teenage Murong Bo's famed feat of killing a well-learned Shaolin monk in one stance.

[tape]

It's a shame we never see that Heaven Sword Dragon Sabre poem art more in action, because it was pretty impressive.

Still, how powerful was that monk? He's portrayed terribly and makes me biased that his martial arts are also terrible. I'd imagine he's about as strong as a first generation Quan Zhen disciple, maybe one of the better ones.

Yang Xiao/Yin Tianzheng are probably the two strongest ones, followed closely by Fan Yao. For whatever reason his inner strength doesn't seem as strong.

Wei, Granny, and Xie Xun (cause he's blind) all would likely lose in a fight against them.

About Zhang Cuisan, he's being studying Wudang arts for 10+ years. He seems more or less as strong as 3rd/4th/6th and quite a bit weaker than 2nd/1st. He hasn't shown any breakthrough or understanding THAT much greater than the rest, or he'd be better than them by now. I think it'd be extremely rare for a genius who can reach Great level to muck around mediocrity for 10+ years especially with a teacher like Zhang Sanfeng who can and will teach you more advanced stuff if you show you can learn it.

I don't think people with the ability to reach Great level status stay in his range of martial arts for very long. They'd blaze by and reach the top echelons in a matter of a few years like all of the other protagonists we've seen / heard reach great level.

[PJ]

About Zhang Cuisan, he's being studying Wudang arts for 10+ years. He seems more or less as strong as 3rd/4th/6th and quite a bit weaker than 2nd/1st.

Did he show that he was much weaker than Song/Yu at the beginning of novel?

He hasn't shown any breakthrough or understanding THAT much greater than the rest, or he'd be better than them by now. I think it'd be extremely rare for a genius who can reach Great level to muck around mediocrity for 10+ years especially with a teacher like Zhang Sanfeng who can and will teach you more advanced stuff if you show you can learn it.

But Old Zhang was convinced that Cuishan would be able to grasp more understanding of Taiji than the rest of the Wudang Heroes.

I don't think people with the ability to reach Great level status stay in his range of martial arts for very long. They'd blaze by and reach the top echelons in a matter of a few years like all of the other protagonists we've seen / heard reach great level.

People generally receive a huge boost in martial arts / internal energy overnight when they open crucial meridians in their body, such as the ren and du meridians; this is often considered the turning point in reaching a new height. I don't think his martial brothers have attained this level. If Zhang Cuishan received Zhang Sanfeng's highest teachings and opened up his meridians one day, his martial arts could suddenly improve by 2-3 fold instantly (because he will have more free flowing internal energies, which he can make much greater use of now).

Zhang Sanfeng himself was probably a late bloomer. He's at Great level at age 100. Was he Great level at age 30, 40? I highly doubt it.

[tape]

He didn't show it, but he constantly thought about how his brothers would fare in his situations, and he was sure they were stronger than him. I'm sure they know each others' levels very well. I can't imagine not sparring constantly with your martial brothers.

I think he would grasp more Taiji than they would too -- but that doesn't say much when they're all like 20-30% of a great or something even at age 50. Even being generous and doubling his power means hes at 40-60% of a great.

The meridian thing usually exists in freak accidents it seems, a la Wuji, Xu Zhu and them. Most regular practictioners we've seen seem to open them up slowly, and if he hasn't shown extreme potential beyond his brothers, I'm still really really against him being able to become a Great.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Actually, there were several other scenes that made me think he's not stronger than a Ming Cult Guardian Lord. For example, he wasn't able to outrun Yin Tianzheng one bit at Wudang. And he didn't perform any better than Yin Tianzheng against Dunan (martial arts wise).

In the whole 20% thing, I believe we misunderstood the original meaning of the quote (I think kyss is the one who pointed it out to me); judging from the original Chinese, my interpretation of it now is that it is very likely that the 'potency' of the cold poison was decreased to 20%, but the strength of the palm power itself had not been.

re the fight vs Dunan, Yin Tianzheng underperformed compared to Yang Xiao, imo. Everyone could tell that he was the weak link on the Ming sect side, while Du Jie was the weak link on the Shaolin side; the only question was which would be the first to break.

[PJ]

I think he would grasp more Taiji than they would too -- but that doesn't say much when they're all like 20-30% of a great or something even at age 50. Even being generous and doubling his power means hes at 40-60% of a great.

If I remember right, Old Zhang didn't really teach the Wudang Heroes much after a few years. They were left to learn on their own, while Old Zhang was busy conceiving new martial arts (he was sealed off for 9 months each year). But in the case of Zhang Cuishan, Old Zhang seemed interested to spend more time teaching him, so that would help get Cuishan ahead of the rest of the Wudang Heroes.

Let me take the case of Xiao Feng for a comparison. We have no idea how good he had gotten in his young age. However, it was said that he still received martial arts instructions from Elder Xi of the Beggar's Union around age 17, so I reckon he couldn't have been that much better than Elder Xi yet. But look at Xiao Feng at age 30, he's at least 10-15 times better than Elder Xi. Most likely, Xiao Feng unlocked his ren & du meridians and/or merged his life force energy with his acquired energy between age 17 and 30, enabling his dramatic improvement.

I believe it could be similar with Zhang Cuishan. Just because he hadn't blossomed at age 20 or so--and after that he stopped learning martial arts--doesn't mean he had no chance of becoming near-Great level.

The meridian thing usually exists in freak accidents it seems, a la Wuji, Xu Zhu and them. Most regular practictioners we've seen seem to open them up slowly, and if he hasn't shown extreme potential beyond his brothers, I'm still really really against him being able to become a Great.

See my example of Xiao Feng. Most likely he had no freak accident as help.

[PJ]

In the whole 20% thing, I believe we misunderstood the original meaning of the quote (I think kyss is the one who pointed it out to me); judging from the original Chinese, my interpretation of it now is that it is very likely that the 'potency' of the cold poison was decreased to 20%, but the strength of the palm power itself had not been.

That has always been my interpretation. Furthermore, I believe Xuanming Elders are only each marginally better than Yang Xiao / Fan Yao (maybe 20% - 30% better).

re the fight vs Dunan, Yin Tianzheng underperformed compared to Yang Xiao, imo. Everyone could tell that he was the weak link on the Ming sect side, while Du Jie was the weak link on the Shaolin side; the only question was which would be the first to break.

Only due to old age, not really martial arts wise (Yin Tianzheng has more internal energy than Yang Xiao, while Yang Xiao has better technique than Yin).

[Ren Wo Xing]

The reason doesn't really matter (be it old age or whatever); what's relevant is the fact that the situation (ie Yin Tianzheng being the weak link) exists.

What makes you think YTZ had superior internal energy compared to YX though?