Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Battle : ROCH Xiang Yang's army vs HSDS United's alliance

  1. #1
    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    150

    Default Battle : ROCH Xiang Yang's army vs HSDS United's alliance

    You want a battle, here what can I think about the super MASSIVE battle. The scenario is simple. At the end of ROCH, Guo Jing or Huang Yaoshi lead the whole wuxia heroes to defend Xiang Yang , mainly follows Huang Yaoshi's formation.

    On the other hand, in the end HSDS, ZWJ also lead probably the whole notable wuxia heroes to defend in Shaolin monastery, against Mongolian attack.

    Here the quick glance on both army :

    Xiang Yang army :
    Huang Yaoshi, Yideng, Zhou Botong ,Guo Jing, Huang Rong,Yelu Qi, Zhu Ziliu ,Yang Guo, XLN, Mo Brothers etc. Formation were based on HYS “Twenty-eight Star Formation”. Army are from Xiang Yang troops, so real war troops here. See explaination here :

    click to show/hide spoilers
    The “Twenty-eight Star Formation” followed the principles of the Five Elements. The south division’s Yideng attacked the centre, Guo Jing’s central division attacked the west, Zhou Botong and the Quanzhen Sect attacked the north, Huang Rong and the Beggars’ Sect attacked the east and Huang Yaoshi’s division attacked the south. The formation’s status now was: Fire and Earth, Earth and Metal, Metal and Water, Water and Wood, Wood and Fire. The Song regiment only had forty thousand men but the formation was ingenious and the division commanders were highly skilled fighters. Moreover the Song soldiers were all grateful towards Guo Jing and Huang Rong, so they risked their lives to save his daughter. Even though the Mongolians outnumbered them almost two to one, the Mongolians could not fend them off.



    HSDS United Alliance :
    ZWJ + whole Ming cult fighters, Shaolin, Wu Dang, Er Mei, Beggar clan + all notable party join in the 'Lion Slaying' event. Army come from Ming cult and Shaolin members, so wuxia troops here. The formations follow 'War Manual ' by Sun Tzu. Detail explanations :
    click to show/hide spoilers
    Zhang Wuji stood up and said, “Presently, Tatars cavalry has gathered at the base of the mountain. Presumably, they will carry out a large scale attack soon. Although we have scored a small victory yesterday and have dampened their spirit, but if the Tatars pay no regards to their own lives and throng up the mountain, we will be hard pressed to withstand them. Zaixia [lit. under, the humble one] has no talent; it was by the heroes’ graciousness that I am elected to hold this temporary position as the commander in chief. Today we are united against a common enemy. I am asking everybody to obey my command.”

    The multitude of heroes replied in one voice, “Please issue the order, we will follow, no one will dare to disobey.”

    “Very well!” Zhang Wuji said, “Wu Qishi [Flag Leader Wu], receive my order!”

    Rui Jin’s Flag Leader, Wu Jingcao stepped forward, bowed and said, “Subordinate is ready to receive the order.” While he was thinking in his heart, “Jiaozhu issues his first order to me. It is truly a great honor. No matter what kind of danger I will have to face, I will risk my life in doing it.”

    Zhang Wuji said, “I assign you to lead your Flag brethren to hold the martial law. Whichever hero or warrior does not obey my order, the Rui Jin Flag’s lances and hatchets will be thrown into his body. This law also applies to seniors and elders of our own Cult, and Wulin masters and seniors. No exception.”

    “Accept the order!” with a loud voice Wu Jingcao complied. He took a small white flag from his bosom and held it tight with both hands.

    Both in terms of name and martial art skill, Wu Jingcao was not considered to be a first class Jianghu warrior, so previously, nobody regarded him too highly. But since the Five-Element Flags demonstrated their invincible might the other day, the multitude of heroes all knew that wherever this small white flag in his hand landed, it will immediately followed by the 500 feathered arrows, 500 javelins, and 500 short hatchets. Even if your skill is as high as the heavens, you will become mincemeat instantly. Therefore, seeing him unfolding the white flag, everybody’s heart shivered.

    The reason behind this order was because when Zhang Wuji browsed through the Wumu Legacy, the first chapter started with, ‘The way to the successful training of troops starts with strict discipline.’ He knew these Jianghu warriors were proud people; each one was used to do what one’s thought right. Although individually they possessed strong martial art skill, fighting together unorganized, they were no different than a motley crowd. Without someone giving order to organize and restrain, forcing them to follow orders, there was no way they could resist the Mongolian elite troops. Therefore, his first order was to assign the Rui Jin Flag as the law enforcers.

    Pointing his finger to the tall wall in front of the hall, Zhang Wuji said, “Gentlemen, Heroes, whoever excels in ‘qing gong’ and able to jump over that wall, please show your skill.”

    Among the crowd of heroes, there were not a few whose face appeared dissatisfied; they thought, “What is this immaterial talk about telling us to show off our jumping ability?” Some senior masters felt that he was showing contempt toward others; they were not pleased at all.

    Zhang Songxi stepped out from among the crowd and said, “I can.” And then he leaped over the wall and lightly landed on the other side of the wall. Wudang Pai’s ‘ti yun zong’ [cloud stairs] ‘qing gong’ enjoyed quite a reputation throughout the world. For someone with Zhang Songxi’s ability, leaping this wall was as easy as blowing off dust. However, he was not showing off at all, it was only an honest demonstration because he was following order. Thereupon Yu Lianzhou, Yin Liting, Yang Xiao, Fan Yao, Wei Yixiao, Yin Yewang and the other experts followed suit one by one.

    Like butterflies flying over flowers the heroes jumped over the wall one after another. Some were showing off their ‘qing gong’ by performing all kinds of flowery styles midair. After more than four hundred people had leaped, it looked like nobody else was going to try.

    This wall was indeed not low; without a good ‘qing gong’ it was not easy to leap over it. The multitude of heroes did not train the same martial art skill. Oftentimes they trained themselves well in fists and kicks or weaponry, so their ‘qing gong’ was ordinary. There were quite a number of Jianghu characters who made their names this way; naturally, they were not willing to show off their shortcomings.

    Noticing that among these four hundred people there were about eighty to ninety Shaolin monks, Zhang Wuji thought, “Shaolin Pai truly lives up to its reputation as the number one school in Wulin. Just in ‘qing gong’ alone, they have many more masters than any other schools.” Thereupon he issued his next order, “Yu Er Bo, Zhang Si Bo, Yin Liu Shu, the three Uncles are to lead these heroes excel in ‘qing gong’ to bluff the enemy. You are to pretend to be escapees from the Temple, make the enemy troops to pursue you, and when you get to the back of the mountain ...” And he detailed the next steps.

    Wudang Pai’s Yu, Zhang and Yin, three heroes accepted the orders. Zhang Wuji made further assignments: who would set up ambush, who would cut the enemy’s rear flank, who would engage them frontally, who would make flank attack, and so on; all in detail arrangement.

    Yang Xiao and the others noticed how he planned this ingenious tactic and deployed troop’s formation to engage the enemy; everything was so clear and orderly as if it was all premeditated. They were all utterly impressed; nobody knew that he had used the military tactic legacy of Yue Wumu. Only, he modified it slightly because of different terrain and different troops.

    Finished assigning tasks, Zhang Wuji finally said, “I am asking Kong Wen Fangzhang and Kong Zhi Shen Seng to lead gentlemen and ladies of the Emei Pai to take care of the injured and the dead.” Since Zhou Zhiruo was not present, Emei Pai had no one to give leadership. Zhang Wuji was aware Emei Pai had deep resentment against him, so he felt it was inappropriate for him to give them direction. For this reason he asked Kong Wen and Kong Zhi, two divine monks; both men of good moral standing and reputation to act as their leaders. Presumably, Emei Pai people would not refuse to be under their leaderships. Sure enough, hearing his order, male and female disciples of Emei Pai silently accepted it; no one open his or her mouth in dissent.

    In a loud and clear voice Zhang Wuji said, “Today, the warriors of the Central Plains are united to fight the Tatar invasion. Masters in charge of bells and drums of the Shaolin Pai, please beat the drums and ring the bells.” The multitude of heroes responded with an earth-shattering cheers; they unsheathed their weapons in high spirit.


    So, which side will win the battle ???

  2. #2
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    绿柳山庄
    Posts
    2,707

    Default

    I believe Xiang Yang's troops numbered in the tens of thousands. Not to mention the Greats in Team 1.

  3. #3
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,481

    Default

    Why don't you throw in the DGSD crew that went North to rescue Xiao Feng and the gang assembled by the Sun-Moon Cult to storm Shaolin as well eh?
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    1,202

    Default

    The tactics that ZWJ used were from Yue Fei's war manual, not Sun Tzu.
    明月心跳起來,又回頭,嫣然道,“你還要不要我帶上那面具?”
    傅紅雪冷道,“現在你臉上豈非已經戴上了個面具?”

  5. #5
    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    150

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Why don't you throw in the DGSD crew that went North to rescue Xiao Feng and the gang assembled by the Sun-Moon Cult to storm Shaolin as well eh?
    I'm not familiar with the DGSD final end. But hey, the Sun-Moon Cult team is a good one. Maybe that is more balance to put here.

    Yes, I am forget that it was a Yue Fei's manual.

    OK, how about dismissed the troops part and only take the notable wuxia heroes. This is almost like the whole ROCH heroes vs HSDS heroes. Will think more about it tomorrow.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bei Rongkun View Post
    I'm not familiar with the DGSD final end. But hey, the Sun-Moon Cult team is a good one. Maybe that is more balance to put here.

    Yes, I am forget that it was a Yue Fei's manual.

    OK, how about dismissed the troops part and only take the notable wuxia heroes. This is almost like the whole ROCH heroes vs HSDS heroes. Will think more about it tomorrow.
    The Five Greats are at Zhang Wuji and Zhang Sanfeng's level, so that's 5 vs 2, with no-one else near them. In the ROCH crowd, Yelu Qi, Huang Rong, and if you include them, Shi Shugang and possibly others, would be at Guardian Lord level or so. Then there's Xiao Longnu, who will murder anyone who doesn't have the raw internal to drive her back. On wulin characters alone, the ROCH crowd will slaughter the HSDS crowd. The HSDS heroes' main strength is the Ming Cult army, and Xiangyang can field at least 20,000 troops (probably around 30-40,000) of their own.

  7. #7
    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    150

    Default

    Ohh.. so ROCH heroes was THAT good. Interesting. BTW, Zhang Sanfeng was not in the crowd, but maybe the three Shaolin elders can equal to him (another debat topic). That's true, beside ZWJ, I can't think anyone else will equal to Huang Yaoshi, ZBT , Yi Deng, Guo Jing and Yang Guo. This is indeed unbalance.

    Ok, another attempt, how about that the battle is like this , ROCH team invade the Bright peak, which assume full of traps and the Ming cult has many defend strategy like building tunnel etc.

    edited : OK nevermind, we send Zhang Sanfeng to them, and also the Chengkun is force to support ZWJ side (of course still with his martial skill). Who else, Dual Xuanmin ordered by princes Zhaomin to help also.
    Last edited by Bei Rongkun; 03-26-10 at 10:32 AM.

  8. #8
    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    150

    Default

    I can't editted it so I will post new reply.

    Ok, I am going to modified this a bit because now I see a very messy situation over there. The scenario reach something like this:

    The GJ army arrive at brightness peak, ZWJ knows this is not defendable in massive charge strategy, so they go for classic scenario. 1 vs 1 round per round scenario. Now since ROCH team is believe better, here they proposed their roster first "

    Round 1 Huang Yaoshi
    Round 2 Yi Deng
    3 Guo Jiang
    4 Yang Guo
    5 Zhou Butong
    6 Xiao Longnu
    7 Huang Rong
    8 QQJ of Quanchen sect
    9 Ye lu qi (already with some Dog stick skill)
    10 Qiu Qianren (he still there right ??)


    For GJ side, Guo xiang is banned as unrelevant, GWM also unrelevant at the end of novel. AND you can propose better roster here.

    So now there is a change for ZWJ side to win,maybe by using Sun Tzu's weak horse vs middle horse strategy. But in gentlemen fight (mean strongest vs strongest) what is the possible scenario overhere that ZWJ will put in ?

    Notes; ZSF is allowed because quite logic and relevant. Dual Xuanming elders also relevant, Purple Dragon also in. But I think Cheng Kun, the Persian side are banned since not relevant, also that Yellow Girl also banned since I felt little emotional connection with her throughly the novel. The shaolin elders be a team but vs 3 persons as well.

    my take :

    Round 1 Huang Yaoshi vs ZSF
    Round 2 Yi Deng vs 3 shaolin elders
    3 Guo Jiang vs 3 shaolin elders
    4 Yang Guo vs 3 shaolin elders
    5 Zhou Butong vs ZWJ
    6 Xiao Longnu vs ZZR (who else??)
    7 Huang Rong vs Yang Xiao
    8 QQJ of Quanchen sect vs Fan Yao
    9 Ye lu qi vs Purple dragon
    10 Qiu Qianren vs White eagle

    wait... seems like in this scenario , HSDS team indeed has possibility to win. and HSDS still got many heroes not yet to show up like the rest of Ming elite and Wu Dang heroes.

  9. #9
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    绿柳山庄
    Posts
    2,707

    Default

    This is kinda messy and I think you've got a pretty misguided view of the strength of some characters. 3 Shaolin Elders appear three times? ZZR? QQR vs White Eagle Lord? Not to mention QQR was dead by Xiang Yang's battle.

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,107

    Default

    Xiao Longnu might be able to take on all the guardian lords plus the two heralds by herself. Throw in the wanderers as well.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    1,401

    Default

    2 Greats were able to defeat the Big Dipper. HYS alone should be able to beat the 3 Shaolin Elders.

  12. #12
    Member Bei Rongkun's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    150

    Default

    3 shaolin elder appear 3 times mean it is 3 vs 3 duel. HYS can take on 3 shaolin elder alone? but on the lower end (round 5 below), how is HSDS chance?

    the QQR is a mistake though.

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bei Rongkun View Post
    3 shaolin elder appear 3 times mean it is 3 vs 3 duel. HYS can take on 3 shaolin elder alone? but on the lower end (round 5 below), how is HSDS chance?

    the QQR is a mistake though.
    At the top level, the ROCH gang have more than enough Greats to take on their equivalents in HSDS, with some left over. Then there's Xiao Longnu, who should thrash any collection of sub-Greats. After that, there's Yelu Qi, Huang Rong and Shi Shugang, who should be able to handle a guardian lord each. If it comes to a barehanded fight, Yelu Qi should even have the upper hand with his mix of skills. And that's before we reach Zhu Ziliu, Wu Santong, Reverend Wuse, Qingling Zi, who are no pushovers. Zhou Zhiruo vs Xiao Longnu is an especially glaring mismatch - Cheng Ying might be a better match up.

  14. #14
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,660

    Default

    The only real advantage HSDS might have is in the Five Banner armies, with their Fire attacks, Earth attacks, etc. etc....that could prove deadly and wipe out entire pools of martial artists.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,107

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    The only real advantage HSDS might have is in the Five Banner armies, with their Fire attacks, Earth attacks, etc. etc....that could prove deadly and wipe out entire pools of martial artists.
    From ROCH Chapter 39 - Battle Of Xiang Yang:

    After appointing the commanders he ordered the sergeant-major to prepare
    the weapons and equipment. He then waved his command flag and the forty
    thousand men got into formation. He shouted, “Legend has it that
    “Twenty-eight Celestial Generals” subdued the Demons long, long ago.
    Although we are not some Heavenly Army, we shall repel the invaders and
    protect our land from the Mongolians or we shall die trying!” Everyone
    cheered like thunder and the five divisions left the city in all
    directions.

    The west division marched out and each soldier carried a wooden pole on
    his back and they attacked the tower. One thousand of them carried
    shields and warded off the arrows while the remaining seven thousand
    threw down their poles and quickly built a structure which followed
    Huang Yaoshi’s diagram based on the Five Elements and Eight Trigrams.
    Soon they blockaded off the eastern side of the tower.

    The west division was made up mainly of Quanzhen disciples and they were
    familiar with the Dipper Formation, so their swords flashed like
    lightning and they formed groups of seven and platoons of forty-nine
    darting left and right, causing the Mongolians to see blurry images and
    could only fend them off with arrows.

    The north division roared in and Huang Rong, together with the Beggars’
    Clan members, brought hoses with them and they sprayed poison onto the
    Mongol troops. The poison caused severe pain and corroded the skin. The
    Mongols could not take it and retreated south.

    The south division appeared through a great cloud of smoke and the 8,000
    troops led by Yideng attacked with fire. The soldiers had some sort of
    fire thrower which spewed out flames at the enemy soldiers. The Mongol
    troops saw that things were really going wrong and were pushed towards
    the centre. Guo Jing and his eight thousand troops moved forward
    gradually and when they saw the Mongol soldiers thrown into confusion,
    they charged straight to the tower.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 02-13-14, 01:12 AM
  2. Love Story in Shanghai / Symphony of Rain /Xiang Wu, Xiang Yu, You Xiang Feng
    By UnforgottenEricaChoi in forum Mainland China TV Series
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 04-30-09, 08:33 PM
  3. HSDS 3rd Edition: Nine Yang's Origins
    By Laviathan in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: 01-20-07, 07:13 PM
  4. Guo Xiang (HSDS Ch 1&2 Translation)
    By Athena in forum Wuxia Translations
    Replies: 95
    Last Post: 01-07-05, 12:49 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •