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Thread: Nadir of GWM's career?

  1. #1
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    Default Nadir of GWM's career?

    From Chapter 20 - A Hero’s Imperative:

    While Ma Guangzuo was calling and hollering, he was making his way
    slowly towards Fawang. Suddenly, he threw out a fist and struck the back
    of Fawang’s head. With Fawang’s abilities, this sneaky attack of Ma
    Guangzuo’s would never have succeeded; but at this moment in time, he
    was just concentrating on Yang Guo, Xiaoxiang Zi and the others. The
    idiot he had ignored actually managed to strike him on the back of his
    head. This attack was hammer like; hammering him into a starry daze. In
    his anger, Fawang sent his elbow backwards striking Ma Guangzuo squarely
    in the chest. Ma Guangzuo called out and his body fell forward right
    onto the shoulders of Fawang. Fawang’s legs bent a little and he dashed
    straight down the mountainside.

    That's right, Ma Guangzuo fetched him one on the back of his head.

  2. #2
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I guess this means that the Golden Wheel Monk isn't going to be getting the "Fastest Great" award.

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    $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2007/12/12-23-07-punch-head.jpg')

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    More GWM bashing.

    It is said that normally, Pre-16 years GWM would need about 100 stances to subdue Li Mochou. We see that Guo Jing took out Ying Kexi in just a few stances while surrounded by GWM + XXZ + NMX. There are many other examples where the Greats subdued similar level fighters quicklier. I'm fairly convinced Pre-16 years GWM is far from Great-level.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Especially when HYS wtfpwned LMC without using any physical stances at all

  6. #6
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Adding to GWM's embarrassments, he estimated that he would need about 30 stances to defeat Yin Zhiping and Zhao Zhijing! I can't imagine another Great needing that long.

    On the other hand, that instance also showed something important: that being able to defeat someone in one stance under some circumstance does not mean it can be reproducved in a fair fight. In fact, Wheelie was able to basically defeat Zhao + Yin with one move (he put his hands on their shoulders, and they were unable to fight back), but then he estimated if he had to fight them in a fair fight, it would take him about 30 stances to do so.

    This is the reason I believe in a fair fight, it would take Zhang Sanfeng more than one stances to defeat a Xuanming Elder, even though Zhang previously subdued one of them in one stance.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  7. #7
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    This is the reason I believe in a fair fight, it would take Zhang Sanfeng more than one stances to defeat a Xuanming Elder, even though Zhang previously subdued one of them in one stance.
    That is an unfair assessment. Against the XM Elder, you could say that the XM Elder had the advantage of already holding ZWJ hostage along with being able to react at the same time as Z3F (to a third party stimulus). It's not like Z3F did a surprise attack. The XM Elder heard the same cry of alarm from ZWJ and immediately reacted only to find it was already too late.



    As for GWM vs Yin Zhiping, that's just pathetic. The Jin flunkies were far stronger than YZP in LOCH and I can't imagine YZP becoming too much stronger than them even by the time of ROCH. HYS, OYF and ZBT were able to subdue those Jin flunkies in one or two stances. HYS destroyed one of them (ripped his arm right off) in a single move even!

  8. #8
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    That is an unfair assessment. Against the XM Elder, you could say that the XM Elder had the advantage of already holding ZWJ hostage along with being able to react at the same time as Z3F (to a third party stimulus). It's not like Z3F did a surprise attack. The XM Elder heard the same cry of alarm from ZWJ and immediately reacted only to find it was already too late.
    But considering what actually happened in the novel, I do not see the Xuanming Elder used the child to his advantage. He merely tried to run away, but Zhang Sanfeng already caught up with him and placed his hand on his shoulders. It is the same kind of hand-on-shoulder (HOS) placement GWM performed on Zhao/Yin. GWM considered such a gesture a "lucky first move" which enabled him to control his opponents, and he explicitly thought that without such a "lucky first move", it would take him much longer to defeat them. I therefore believe that any time a much better exponent can do a HOS on a much weaker opponent, it is over in one stance. What I'm saying about Zhang Sanfeng is that he made a clever choice by going HOS on the Xuanming Elder, but in a fair fight, where it won't be as easy to do a HOS, it would take Zhang longer to subdue them.

    Which is not to take away from Zhang Sanfeng's amazing speed in order to catch the running Xuanming Elder. But suffice it is IMO to say that the Xuanming Elder was still caught off guard, who must have underestimated the Wudang Master, as evidenced by his shock when he was caught. Had the Xuanming Elder been prepared for a fight, I think the result would be different.

    Another famous example is a Xuanming Elder against Yang Xiao/Fan Yao. In a direct palm clash, with only 20% of his toxicity level, a Xuanming Elder is able to injure Yang Xiao in just one stance. But later, Fan Yao declared that in a fair fight, it would take the Xuanming Elder over 100 stances to defeat him.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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