Is it just me or TVB wuxia series are always superior to their Mainland counter parts

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

Mainland Wuxia adoptions just seem to rely on toooooooo much fancy computer effects, their actings are stale too.

You see more sparring and stuff from Hong Kong series, and the actings are way better for some reason.

Can someone give me more reasons?

[Trien Chieu]

Mainland Wuxia adoptions just seem to rely on toooooooo much fancy computer effects, their actings are stale too.

You see more sparring and stuff from Hong Kong series, and the actings are way better for some reason.

Can someone give me more reasons?

Wuxia serials of TVB are no longer as great as they were during the 80s but still the best among them. Yes, I agree that TVB serials have better hand fight whereas mainland serials use too much special effects. Additional, TVB serials move as a faster pace than mainland's.

[yittz]

At least many mainland series stay relatively true to the plot. That alone puts it better than the toilet paper crap TVB uses as an adapted script.

[pannonian]

TVB adaptations are better than LOCH 2003? LOCH 2003 is one of the best serials I've seen full stop. And that's from someone who's used to the best the UK and US have produced.

[Trien Chieu]

TVB adaptations are better than LOCH 2003? LOCH 2003 is one of the best serials I've seen full stop. And that's from someone who's used to the best the UK and US have produced.

Did you watch LOCH 82?? If you compare LOCH 2003 of mainland china to LOCH 82 of TVB, you will see the huge difference.

[Dirt]

Mainland LOCH 2003 was good. TVB 1996 SOD was good.

The thing with TVB is that, if you've seen enough of them, you'll notice that the martial stunt artists always use the same flips and kicks in every fight in the shows.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Did you watch LOCH 82?? If you compare LOCH 2003 of mainland china to LOCH 82 of TVB, you will see the huge difference.

I thought the 2003 one was better overall. The only thing that the 82 one can boast superior is the Guo Jing & Yang Kang. I don't really care for sticking to the novel or not, but the 2003 script had a better pacing of plot. I might get stoned for this, but I actucally preferred zhou xun's portrayal to barbara yung's.

That said though, TVB's wuxia style changes drastically from the 80s to 90s to 2000s. In the 80s & 90s, TVB was definitely superior, but in the 2000s, the mainland productions have definitely taken over (both due to it's own rise and TVB's decline in the wuxia scheme)

[Banh Mi]

but in the 2000s, the mainland productions have definitely taken over (both due to it's own rise and TVB's decline in the wuxia scheme)

Would you put the mainland ROCH as the rule or the exception?

[devilz91]

I always liked the 90's adaptations the most, TLBB '96 SOD '96 and ROCH '95 are all very good.

[pannonian]

Did you watch LOCH 82?? If you compare LOCH 2003 of mainland china to LOCH 82 of TVB, you will see the huge difference.

Yes, I have watched LOCH 82. That's the first adapation of LOCH I'd watched, and it was hard for me to imagine a better version. Then I saw LOCH 2003, and I was blown away.

[Ken Cheng]

Here's how I see it. Wuxia film adaptation started during the 1960s, and during the first decade or so, Hong Kong's Shaw Brothers Productions, their TVB studio, RTV-HK, and, for a very brief period during the mid-1970s, Commercial Television (also Hong Kong) were the ENTIRE shooting match. No one else was really doing wuxia. Taiwan made a few efforts during the 1970s, but these were rather feeble and have been pretty much forgotten except for the older Taiwanese audiences who watched them back then (and when the Hong Kong series became available to Taiwanese audiences during the early 1980s, they quickly abandoned their native-produced material). I don't know what was going on in Singapore as far as wuxia adaptation at the time (except that whatever Singapore was producing wasn't drawing the attention of what Hong Kong was doing), but Chinese wuxia adaptation/production did not really come into being until the 1990s, and only began world-class production towards the end of the Nineties.

For sheer epic scope, China is going to win by default. China has the terrain to shoot outdoor scenes upon. China can hire huge casts of extras for big scenes. China, for various reasons, will be able to dress actors in more authentic-looking period costumes. China also has the benefit of several decades worth of such productions (from Hong Kong and other regions) to look back upon for experience.

Hong Kong basically *invented* wuxia film adaptation during the 1960s. Those primitive Shaw Brothers films were where it all began as far as adapting wuxia stories for the big and small screen. Because the genre did not exist until the 1960s, those screenwriters, producers, directors, costumers, martial arts choreographers, special effects technicians, props-makers, and of course, the actors had to invent it as they went along. The Hong Kong wuxia makers laid down the template way back in the 1960s, and all that everyone has been doing ever since has been building upon and adding to that template.

Hong Kong is a geographically limited place, and compared to the whole of China, it has relatively few people. During the time that TVB produced its most memorable wuxia adaptations (i.e. the 1970s and 1980s), the only place that TVB could shoot the series was in Hong Kong. China was not an option: the Cultural Revolution had just barely ended, and extensive scenery filming within Chinese borders would not become a reality for Hong Kong television and film productions until after the 1980s. Moreover, Hong Kong being a British colony, the residents of the city were at least somewhat influenced by Western culture. Hence, Hong Kong produced wuxia adaptations would always have a slightly more "Western" flavor than those produced elsewhere (most notably in the sort of costumes that the characters were outfitted with, the special effects used, and the general pacing of the series).

But this, above all, is the main difference from how TVB produces its series compared to other production houses: because of its geographical and resources limitations, TVB has *always* (and this includes their modern dramas as well as their wuxia adaptations) had a bit of a feel of a "stage play on film/videotape." TVB's productions don't feel like big, epic movies meant to be shown on huge IMAX screens (whereas some Chinese series do). You can almost imagine every TVB series to be a play performed on a stage in front of a live audience (although this was more true of 1970s TVB series than today's), with a camera just *happening* to be rolling at the same time. Consequently, TVB's series feel more intimate...you feel more involved with the characters because TVB's productions tend to focus more on characterization than on the epic sweep of the stories. Acting, casting, and dialog were (not so much anymore; TVB has degraded *a lot* since its 1970s/1980s heyday) placed at a premium by TVB, whereas actual production (i.e. scenery and costuming) were not. When you can't wow people with great cinematography due to logistical limitations, then you've GOT to deliver on the acting, casting, and dialog side of things.

By comparison, China has logistical resources the likes of which Hong Kong production companies can only *dream* of, but because China has such resources at its fingertips, Chinese production companies will often focus on maximizing these resources and give less attention to such things as acting, casting, and scriptwriting. The result is bigger, grander productions, but less intimate engagement of characters.

[pannonian]

By comparison, China has logistical resources the likes of which Hong Kong production companies can only *dream* of, but because China has such resources at its fingertips, Chinese production companies will often focus on maximizing these resources and give less attention to such things as acting, casting, and scriptwriting. The result is bigger, grander productions, but less intimate engagement of characters.

The thing about LOCH 2003 is that it was made with a much larger budget, but also with a coherent artistic vision, usually seen on TV only in the west (think HBO/BBC), with similarly high quality acting. Memorable though Barbara Yung may have been, Zhou Xun is a far better actor than she ever was. The emphasis wasn't on the production, but the novel. Everything else was subordinated to the object of bringing the novel to life. You should give it a go, along with the textual novel, which it's extraordinarily faithful to.

[Ren Ying Ying]

In comparison to the 2000s Mainland dramas, TVB productions in the 80s tend to be much more melodramatic (hence more character emotional feel). By the time it hit the 90s, the taiwan productions decided to take the crown for being melodramatic and the TVB productions were actually much more concise and actually stuck to the novel quite well.

Would you put the mainland ROCH as the rule or the exception?

Well, I haven't really watched ROCH 06 so I can't speak for it. But then again, I haven't seen too many great TVB wuxias of this decade.

Plus, I was refering to in general.

[Ken Cheng]

But then again, I haven't seen too many great TVB wuxias of this decade.

That's because TVB hasn't made any this past decade.

HSDS '99/'00 was *such* a dog that Jin Yong pulled the license for TVB to adapt his novels ever again (and this after what had been a very successful and happy twenty-five year relationship between Jin Yong and TVB). Without the Jin Yong source material to work from, TVB just *gave up* on wuxia production after 2000...not bothering to adapt the works of other authors (such as Gu Long) or even do the "original" wuxia series that it often did during the 1980s and 1990s.

[Ren Ying Ying]

That's because TVB hasn't made any this past decade.

HSDS '99/'00 was *such* a dog that Jin Yong pulled the license for TVB to adapt his novels ever again (and this after what had been a very successful and happy twenty-five year relationship between Jin Yong and TVB). Without the Jin Yong source material to work from, TVB just *gave up* on wuxia production after 2000...not bothering to adapt the works of other authors (such as Gu Long) or even do the "original" wuxia series that it often did during the 1980s and 1990s.

just because it isn't jin yong or large scale adaption doesn't mean it's not wuxia. There are plenty of other adaptions and "original works" but they just lack the quality feel in comparison to it's competitors.
In any case, from the glimpses that i've seen, the TVB production in general is down as it was in the 90s. They're entertaining in terms of slapstick comedy and all, but there are only a few series that are of quality (in terms of story, script, acting, etc). Perhaps they just don't put as much effort into it, or perhaps it's competition is just looking better.

[Ken Cheng]

just because it isn't jin yong or large scale adaption doesn't mean it's not wuxia. There are plenty of other adaptions and "original works" but they just lack the quality feel in comparison to it's competitors.
In any case, from the glimpses that i've seen, the TVB production in general is down as it was in the 90s. They're entertaining in terms of slapstick comedy and all, but there are only a few series that are of quality (in terms of story, script, acting, etc). Perhaps they just don't put as much effort into it, or perhaps it's competition is just looking better.

What TVB does today isn't really "wuxia." What you're referring to (I think) are basically standard TVB series set in ancient times that *happen* to have a little bit of action in them, but that doesn't make them wuxia stories. Wuxia creates its own distinct world with a number of clearly identifiable idiosyncrasies, and TVB's more recent ancient series don't bother re-creating that world at all.

Moreover, TVB is suffering from both better competition AND its own lack of effort. Look at HSDS '00 and compare it to HSDS '86 or HSDS '78: there were certainly more tools available to TVB in '00 than in '86 or '78, but did '00 have *half* the soul of either of the earlier productions? The answer is a resounding "no," and that has everything to do with the attitudes of the people in charge at TVB.

[Ren Ying Ying]

What TVB does today isn't really "wuxia." What you're referring to (I think) are basically standard TVB series set in ancient times that *happen* to have a little bit of action in them, but that doesn't make them wuxia stories. Wuxia creates its own distinct world with a number of clearly identifiable idiosyncrasies, and TVB's more recent ancient series don't bother re-creating that world at all.

No ken, they do make "wuxia". I know one when I see one.
Except instead of Jin Yong/Gu Long adaptions, they tend to be more Wen Rui An (ie. Four Constables), Huang Yi, some Liang Yusheng...or sometimes original storylines. Perhaps they don't ignite the "wuxia" feel that you are used to (wuxia is actually quite a broad category), but they were nevertheless intended to be wuxia themed.But that's besides the point. The main point is that the 00's TVB wuxia (in general) is subpar to it's competitors by a landslide.

In the end, it really just depends on the style that you prefer. The 80s, 90s, and 2000s all had their own style and culture when regarding to not just wuxia but tv serials in general. For example, the make-up and acting styles in the 80s were entirely appropriate considering their times, but if you put that make-up and costume into the 2000s, it would look not just extremely outdated but plain awkward.

[Candide]

I grew up thinking wuxia is a steaming pile of sh!t because TVB adaptations sucked so hard.

[Banh Mi]

Well, I haven't really watched ROCH 06 so I can't speak for it. But then again, I haven't seen too many great TVB wuxias of this decade.

Plus, I was refering to in general.

It's just, Mainland ROCH is the only one I've seen, and I couldn't stand it from what little I saw of it. I really hate wuxia costumes and looks that are quirky and weird. Characters shouldn't have purple hair for the sake of purple hair. And I remember I saw Yang Guo acting like a kid with Downs Syndrome.

[kidd]

That's because TVB hasn't made any this past decade.

HSDS '99/'00 was *such* a dog that Jin Yong pulled the license for TVB to adapt his novels ever again (and this after what had been a very successful and happy twenty-five year relationship between Jin Yong and TVB). Without the Jin Yong source material to work from, TVB just *gave up* on wuxia production after 2000...not bothering to adapt the works of other authors (such as Gu Long) or even do the "original" wuxia series that it often did during the 1980s and 1990s.

TVB has adapted the novels of Huang Yi, Wen Rui An and Liang Yu Sheng since JY's ban. They are

- Lofty Water Verdant Bow (LYS)
- Twins of Brothers (HY)
- A Step into the Past (HY)
- Lethal Weapon of Love and Passion (HY)
- Fate to Fate (WRA)
- Strike At Heart (WRA)
- The Four (WRA)

They have also made 2 original wuxia series i.e. 'Blade Heart' and 'Devil's Disciples'.

There is a planned production of Ni Kuang's '13 Tai Bao' but it didn't come to fruition.

What TVB does today isn't really "wuxia." What you're referring to (I think) are basically standard TVB series set in ancient times that *happen* to have a little bit of action in them, but that doesn't make them wuxia stories. Wuxia creates its own distinct world with a number of clearly identifiable idiosyncrasies, and TVB's more recent ancient series don't bother re-creating that world at all.

Not resembling TVB 80s wuxia series doesn't mean they are not wuxia.