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Lung Siu Wan - originally a hero, or always a scoundrel at heart?
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Thread: Lung Siu Wan - originally a hero, or always a scoundrel at heart?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Lung Siu Wan - originally a hero, or always a scoundrel at heart?

    When Lee Chum Foon first met Lung Siu Wan, Lung definitely appeared to be a heroic man of great character and virtue...stepping in to save the life of a complete stranger.

    Twenty years later, however, Lung Siu Wan appeared to be quite a scoundrel as he betrayed his one-time sworn brother.

    It's hard to gauge Lung Siu Wan's *true* character: was he truly once a virtuous man who fell to skullduggery when he thought Lee posed a threat to his family life and his status, or was he always a scoundrel at heart...even when he and Lee first met?

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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    Scoundrel at heart. A pretentious stinking one. Even if my friend wanted to "pass on" her hot boyfriend to me, I still wouldn't accept no matter how highly I thought of him. What kind of virtuous human being does this? Additionally, if one is a truly big hearted human being, why would they think their friend would ever pose a threat to their family or status. That's petty.
    Last edited by ByTmE; 06-21-10 at 03:02 AM.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByTmE View Post
    Scoundrel at heart. A pretentious stinking one. Even if my friend wanted to "pass on" her hot boyfriend to me, I still wouldn't accept no matter how highly I thought of him. What kind of virtuous human being does this? Additionally, if one is a truly big hearted human being, why would they think their friend would ever pose a threat to their family or status. That's petty.
    On the other hand, at the time that he stepped in to save Lee Chum Foon's life, Lung Siu Wan had nothing to gain and everything to lose from taking that action. If he were a scoundrel at that point of his life, what could have motivated him to risk his life for a complete stranger?

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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    On the other hand, at the time that he stepped in to save Lee Chum Foon's life, Lung Siu Wan had nothing to gain and everything to lose from taking that action. If he were a scoundrel at that point of his life, what could have motivated him to risk his life for a complete stranger?
    I believe that's a lie. Who is to say that Lung Siu Wan didn't want of any personal gain by from the very moment that he witnessed an opportunity to save a perfect stranger. Maybe he saw that as his opportunity to save someone and make a name for himself? Lung Siu Wan in my eyes is like Zhou Zhi Ruo, never as innocent or as upstanding as they present themselves out to be. We are only treated to when the character first comes out by the whim of the authors. They may grow for the better or for the worse by the same whim. A person who is fundamentally good at heart would not change so drastically. Only someone who already has the darkness in their hearts to begin with would...I've witnessed this in real life though I've not been alive for very long.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByTmE View Post
    I believe that's a lie. Who is to say that Lung Siu Wan didn't want of any personal gain by from the very moment that he witnessed an opportunity to save a perfect stranger. Maybe he saw that as his opportunity to save someone and make a name for himself?
    I'd be more prepared to believe this had the assailants whom Lung Siu Wan challenged been much weaker than him and posed no danger to him. That wasn't the case, however. Those assailants were dangerous enough to have seriously wounded and nearly killed Lee Chum Foon and thus, likely could have easily killed Lung Siu Wan. In the end, it was Lee's dagger that saved them both. Lung's intervention was more likely to result in his own death than a glorious rescue had it not been for Lee's dagger.

    Moreover, at that point, Lung Siu Wan didn't know whom he was rescuing. It would have been one thing if he knew that the person he was saving was the famous Lee Chum Foon, but Lung had no idea about the identity of the man that he was rescuing at the time.

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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    ::blink::blink::blink::<--- man, too bad there's no smiley for this. Could have been his good deed for a lifetime? Does one act of great kindness determine your overall character? Certainly one act of great foolishness does not, so why vice versa? What about continuous acts of foolishness or pettiness?

    Are we still overlooking the fact that Lung Siu Wan accepted his friend's beloved as a wife? In retrospect, I don't think I ever recall the hero asking for the girl's opinion in the matter; that's his bad. And of course, she didn't voice her opinion; that's her bad. But Lung Siu Wan, who doesn't really seem all that dense, could not see the relationship between them? That's being a third wheel, that's obviously not being a great person to begin with. So what, if he doesn't care about his own life and sacrifices it for a stranger? He also sacrificed his friend's happiness for a woman. Frankly, BOOH. They were all wrong. And then what else does he do? He treacherously plots behind his friend's back. The end result proves he ain't an angel.

    Oh gosh, recalling that triangle makes me want to rip my hair out. I need to go to sleep.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByTmE View Post
    ::blink::blink::blink::<--- man, too bad there's no smiley for this. Could have been his good deed for a lifetime? Does one act of great kindness determine your overall character? .
    No, but we have no record on what Lung Siu Wan was like before his first encounter with Lee. We know that it was all downhill from there, but that gives us little clue about what kind of a man he was *before* that.

    That's why the question is worded so precisely: there's no doubt that Lung Siu Wan was a major heel twenty years later (and perhaps as early as when he made known his intentions to wed Lam See Yam), but what about before that? Was he always a heel, or did he turn into one?

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Turn into one; his death and the way he died proves that he wasn't a total tool.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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    Lung Siu Wan is neither 100% hero nor 100% scoundrel at heart. He's a gray area character who has some of both characteristic. It's like those gangsters who will do violent things, open nightclub and gambling den and collect protecting money, but, they won't betray their brothers or take their brother's wife.

    I think Lung Siu Wan has some heroism in his heart, but, also have some selfishness.

    Anyway, who knows why Lung Siu Wan will risk his life for Lee Cham Foon? Maybe at that time, he has nothing left, nothing to live for. So, when he encounter Lee Cham Foon, he might have thought 'I might as well do some good before I die' or 'I might as well die a heroic death', so, he went to save an unknown person. But, when he finally met someone he really desires, his selfishness surfaced.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    Lung Siu Wan is neither 100% hero nor 100% scoundrel at heart. He's a gray area character who has some of both characteristic. It's like those gangsters who will do violent things, open nightclub and gambling den and collect protecting money, but, they won't betray their brothers or take their brother's wife.
    Ok, I dig this idea. Oh and really, true story? Is this like a rule rule? Or a guideline for ethics? I remember watching the movie based on Francis Ng's character Ugly Kwan of Young and Dangerous fame, "Once Upon a Time in a Triad Society." Now there's a class act exemplar for what not to be like.

    No, but we have no record on what Lung Siu Wan was like before his first encounter with Lee. We know that it was all downhill from there, but that gives us little clue about what kind of a man he was *before* that.
    Well, yes. We're stuck deducing what this character's before Lee Chum Foon and after Lee Chum Foon characteristics are. I guess I belong to the group of people that believes people are more inclined to not change. Well I believe in life changing situations that people may experience, but I really don't think many people actually grow all that much from their experience, at least not long term. Which is odd because I've met and befriended at least a dozen reformed former gang members.
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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    i believe he was a hero at first. he did not know that little lee and his cousin were sweethearts. he fell in love with her desperately to the point he nearly died from love sickness. it was because they were really good friends that little lee pushed his cousin to him. i don't think little lee is a bad judge of character. so he would not have given the love of his life to a scoundrel. it was because LSW realized his wife was in love with little lee and pinning for him that his character changed. he felt betrayed and humiliated. it was that resentment. little lee realized that and never blamed him. he might actually regretted his own decision when he realized the pain he had caused. LSW's son was also crippled by little lee. but at the end, he changed back into the good man he used to be.
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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Actually fully concur w/kyss of the sword.
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    Senior Member ByTmE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    i believe he was a hero at first. he did not know that little lee and his cousin were sweethearts. he fell in love with her desperately to the point he nearly died from love sickness. it was because they were really good friends that little lee pushed his cousin to him. i don't think little lee is a bad judge of character. so he would not have given the love of his life to a scoundrel. it was because LSW realized his wife was in love with little lee and pinning for him that his character changed. he felt betrayed and humiliated. it was that resentment. little lee realized that and never blamed him. he might actually regretted his own decision when he realized the pain he had caused. LSW's son was also crippled by little lee. but at the end, he changed back into the good man he used to be.
    But how does one not know? Well, I've never been the victim of unrequited love, but I can imagine that I would try to find out everything I could about the object of my affections. Lung Siu Wan must have been delusional in love with that woman! I can understand feeling humiliated but betrayed? Why is that? LSW was second. I feel that Lee Chum Foon gave the bloke too much the benefit of the doubt. To LSW's credit, I do think that when love turns to hate, it's a terrible feeling with terrible consequences. However, those tendencies didn't just manifest, they were probably there from the beginning...Yeah, that last bolded part kind of sucked. If I remember correctly, that kid was supposed to be kind of talented too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword View Post
    i believe he was a hero at first. he did not know that little lee and his cousin were sweethearts. he fell in love with her desperately to the point he nearly died from love sickness. it was because they were really good friends that little lee pushed his cousin to him. i don't think little lee is a bad judge of character. so he would not have given the love of his life to a scoundrel. it was because LSW realized his wife was in love with little lee and pinning for him that his character changed. he felt betrayed and humiliated. it was that resentment. little lee realized that and never blamed him. he might actually regretted his own decision when he realized the pain he had caused. LSW's son was also crippled by little lee. but at the end, he changed back into the good man he used to be.
    Based on TVB serial with Kwan Lai Kit as Little Lee, I don't recall LSW was ever a good man from the beginning until his death.


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    Junior Member liubang1992's Avatar
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    Hey guys, so what adapatation of this novel would you guys recommened to watch? I usually have to watch viet dubs, so the 70s version is probably out of the equation.
    Liu Bang (I hope this is not forgery)

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    The Vincent Jiao adaption in '99 or '00 was very good up until the end of the first story arc. Then they added in amnesia, hundred+ year old women, and a whole ton of other silly stuff.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Lung Siu Wan was certainly a complex antagonist. Perhaps he embodied the idea that even men who were originally good can be corrupted when self-interest comes into play.

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    Quote Originally Posted by liubang1992 View Post
    Hey guys, so what adapatation of this novel would you guys recommened to watch? I usually have to watch viet dubs, so the 70s version is probably out of the equation.
    I enjoyed this version more than TVBs.

    https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6j67ts
    Last edited by Stance; 01-22-21 at 01:28 AM.

  19. #19
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Lung Siu Wan was certainly a complex antagonist. Perhaps he embodied the idea that even men who were originally good can be corrupted when self-interest comes into play.
    Holy self-necro, Batman!
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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