Cantonese pronunciation

[Ian Liew]

Does anyone know how to say "shu" (竖, the vertical stroke) in Cantonese? Is it like Shu the tree, the rat, book (all variations of "shue"), uncle, the Three Kingdoms nation, cooked (variations of "sook"), or some other sound?

Thanks!

[remember_Cedric]

Since 竖 is the 4th sound, I think it's pronounced as 'SOK' (So-Oak).

[Ian Liew]

Since 竖 is the 4th sound, I think it's pronounced as 'SOK' (So-Oak).

"lose" and "book" are also 4th sound, though, and they're translated as "she".

I'm trying to teach some people in Cantonese about Chinese strokes, and I've pretty much gotten most of the strokes in place:-

Heng
- Wang, meaning horizontal

Dian
- Dim, like in Dim Sum

Pie
- Peet, as in .. er.. leave

Ti
- Tai, as in remind, or raise

Na
- Na, as in.. "here you are". It's a guess, but it's unlikely that "Na" could translate to anything else, although the sound might be different. Would appreciate advice on this one too.

Wo
- Ngo, as in "Ngo Fu Chong Lung", or Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon

Xie
- Cher, as in slanting

Gou
- Ngau, as in hook

Zhi
- Jeet, as in joint

I've taken the liberty of calling "Shu" as "She", as in tree, but I'm worried I might have got it wrong! =)

If someone has a copy of the 84 TVB XAJH handy, could you please check the part where Linghu Chong challenges Mei Zhuang? The third brother, the scholar, when he challenges Linghu Chong to write the "Wing", describes how the word contains all the strokes and lists the main ones. I'm sure TVB won't get it wrong... =)

[Cesare]

syuh/syu6 (yu pron. as ü)- at least according to the dictionary...

[Ian Liew]

Which sound is 6? Tree, lose, rat, or something else? NEver knew there was a Canto dictionary =)

[kidd]

竖 sounds like the tree.

Both have the same Yale pinyin i.e. syu6.

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindic...A0%91%E7%AB%96

[mawguy]

rats! kidd beat me to it! :P yep, it's pronounced like tree in canto.

[Ian Liew]

Thanks all! That's a relief, since that's what I've been teaching all this while - luck guess =)

[Cesare]

Which sound is 6? Tree, lose, rat, or something else? NEver knew there was a Canto dictionary =)

Well, some online dictionaries display both mandarin and Canto pronunciation.
(There actually is a Cantonese dictionary, though...)

As for tone numbers...
high level (high falling) - 1 (as in yat1 - 一)
mid rising - 2 (as in gau2 - 九)
mid level - 3 (as in sei3 - 四)
low falling - 4 (as in mh4 - 唔)
low rising - 5 (as in ng5 - 五)
low level - 6 (as in luk6 - 六)

[Ian Liew]

Well, some online dictionaries display both mandarin and Canto pronunciation.
(There actually is a Cantonese dictionary, though...)

As for tone numbers...
high level (high falling) - 1 (as in yat1 - 一)
mid rising - 2 (as in gau2 - 九)
mid level - 3 (as in sei3 - 四)
low falling - 4 (as in mh4 - 唔)
low rising - 5 (as in ng5 - 五)
low level - 6 (as in luk6 - 六)

Thanks! I pronounce 四 and 五 with the same tone though, I must have a funny accent or something ...

[CFT]

豎

A bit late to the party, but yes sounds like tree. See Cantonese sound file here: http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexi...h.php?q=%BD%DD

[kidd]

How is this character pronounced in Cantonese?

囡

I clearly remember in Central Affairs 2, when Michelle Ye's character's mom called her 'leui leui', the subtitle at the bottom use 囡囡. But, I check mdbg.net and the cantonese pronunciation given is 'naam4'.

So, which is the correct one?

I use my Cantoinput software to type. If I type 'leui' or 'neui', I couldn't find this character, but, if I type 'naam', I will be able to find this character on the list.

If that's the case, if I want to type 'leui leui' in canto, what character should I use? 女女 looks weird.

[Cesare]

Should be naàhm...
I suppose they didn't translate it literally and just used another word/character for girl/daughter...
女女 actually seems to be the neoi neoi/leoi leoi you are looking for, as it means daughter or unmarried girl (at least according to Cantodict).

[kidd]

But, no one writes 'leui leui' using 女女. At least, I've never seen it.

I don't think 女 means 'daughter'. It just means 'woman' or 'girl'. 'Daughter' is 女兒.

But, in cantonese, 'neui' or 'leui' if pronounced in a different tone actually means daughter.

Maybe you are right. They didn't translate literally.

[Cesare]

Perhaps it is precisely because noone writes 女女 that they used a different character in the subs.
女 of course means woman or female, but neoineoi and neoi are two different expressions.

[CFT]

Naam4: http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexi...h.php?q=%C9%C6

[mawguy]

i asked my mom to verify with the 辭海 we have at home. she says, according to that, 囡 is pronounced "neui/nui" with the pitch being the same as 推 and 雖. the pronounciation key contains the character 南, so most people think that "naahm" should be the pronounciation, but it's not -- there's some odd tonal switch that my mom couldn't really explain, but she knows that it's "neui" and not "naahm".

囡囡 is a mandarin expression of affection for one's daughter, like the english calling them "sweetie". the cantonese say 女女 instead, and it's made more complicated because the two are not said with the same pitch -- some penchant for french raised endings or something. :P anyway, it's "nui nui", but the pitch is like 雷 then 許.

the subtitles always use mandarin as the written standard, even for cantonese shows, hence they write 囡囡, even though the actors are saying 女女.

hope that helps!

[mawguy]

oh, and regarding "leui leui" -- that's pure lazy/incorrect hong kong'ese. there are a LOT of words they just simply don't say properly -- can't call them wrong, exactly, since they've become the colloquial norm in that place, but if you're talking properly canto, it's not.

[kidd]

Thanks alot, mawguy. You and your mom are so knowledgeable.

All the online dictionaries I manage to find that have this character give the pronunciation as nān for mandarin and naam4 for canto.

[kidd]

oh, and regarding "leui leui" -- that's pure lazy/incorrect hong kong'ese. there are a LOT of words they just simply don't say properly -- can't call them wrong, exactly, since they've become the colloquial norm in that place, but if you're talking properly canto, it's not.

Yeah, I know 'leui' is lazy tone for 'neui'. But, like you said, it has become the colloquial norm. So, I just spell it as how it was pronounced by that person in the series.

Furthermore, I was not sure if the pronunciation rule that applies for 女 applies to 囡 or not. They are after all, 2 different characters.

I once remember Raymond Lam laugh at Sammul Chan in an interivew for being overly strict in his pronunciation. (He was asked who of his coworkers as a lot of lazy speech, which he didn't give any name. He instead told who has has proper pronunciation) He joked 'He is very 'neui'' (meaning, he always pronounced 女 as 'neui' instead 'leui'). Raymond said it feels weird listening to it because everyone else pronounced 'leui' but, he said it's a good thing since Sammul is speak proper pronunciation.