Indian couple slain in 'honor killing'

[Trien Chieu]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapc...ngs/index.html

Indian couple slain in 'honor killing'

"We killed them because we were against their relationship. If someone comes to your house to meet your niece at midnight, what more do you do?"

Wow this kind of story is more like fiction from wuxia/ancient Chinese serials.

[kidd]

This is parental disapproval (of children's chosen partners) taken to the extreme.

I hope they don't just a get a slap on the wrist and release. Honor killing murderers usually get a light sentence in places where it's tradition. There might be law set up against the practice, but, judges will usually rule more leniently.

[ByTmE]

Indeed, but this is real life! In a way, I don't appreciate how some wuxia or modern love stories romanticize such circumstances. They neglect the real tragedy of cruelty and loss of young lives. This hits me kind of hard because I just finished watching SSWRB where Wen Yi was recounting her romance with Xia the Golden Snake Swordsman. Man, talk about tragic.

In truth, that young couple should have eloped or something along those lines. Considering how disapproving the parents were, I wonder if they could have escaped such a tragedy. But then again, no one expects their family to murder them. HOWEVER, that young man should NOT have snuck into that girl's home!!! He was way too bold and disrespectful of the young lady's authorities. Eh, young love.

A part of me says that they should have listened to their parents, but that's what I would have done. Another part of me says to fight for your own independence and freedom to love one another. Well, I guess, I can only make my own decisions.

[xJadedx]

I wish they didn't call it "honor killing," as the word "honor" has a slight positive connotation, whereas the action in this article is beyond horrible and beyond reason.

[kidd]

A part of me says that they should have listened to their parents, but that's what I would have done. Another part of me says to fight for your own independence and freedom to love one another. Well, I guess, I can only make my own decisions.

I remember you saying you always do whatever you want behind your parents' back and at one time has an argument with your dad that last quite a long time.

Or do I get the wrong person again?

[ByTmE]

I wish they didn't call it "honor killing," as the word "honor" has a slight positive connotation, whereas the action in this article is beyond horrible and beyond reason.

True THAT - well, it's obvious the girl's family would rather have their "honor" than their daughter. My mama walked into the room and asked me what I was doing so I told her about it. At first she thought the family had hired someone to kill the boy. She was horrified when I told her it was the girl's own family the beat both the young people to death with their own hands.

Well, it's not like I don't know. In my own family, if I weren't so close to *perfect* and acted out like my brothers, I would have been kicked out long ago while both of them still get to mooch around on such behavior.

[xJadedx]

Indeed, but this is real life! In a way, I don't appreciate how some wuxia or modern love stories romanticize such circumstances. They neglect the real tragedy of cruelty and loss of young lives. This hits me kind of hard because I just finished watching SSWRB where Wen Yi was recounting her romance with Xia the Golden Snake Swordsman. Man, talk about tragic.

In truth, that young couple should have eloped or something along those lines. Considering how disapproving the parents were, I wonder if they could have escaped such a tragedy. But then again, no one expects their family to murder them. HOWEVER, that young man should NOT have snuck into that girl's home!!! He was way too bold and disrespectful of the young lady's authorities. Eh, young love.

A part of me says that they should have listened to their parents, but that's what I would have done. Another part of me says to fight for your own independence and freedom to love one another. Well, I guess, I can only make my own decisions.

That's besides the point. Sneaking into your girlfriend's room at night (if that's even true, given that the uncle who partook in the murders is the one who said this) does not warrant someone to be tortured to death. If the girl consented, the parents should have no right to intervene (especially like this) unless the guy posed a threat, which he did not in this case, as his only "fault" was being of a lower caste. He was not responsible of answering to the girl's parents, but to the girl herself.

[ByTmE]

I remember you saying you always do whatever you want behind your parents' back and at one time has an argument with your dad that last quite a long time.

Or do I get the wrong person again?

You're right. That was me . The argument was with the MoM because she's the controlling one. The longest argument we had was about my degree, I changed it and was well on my way towards graduation before I told her. She was sOoO mad and even after the fact...like a year after I told her Sometimes even now she still laments about how I'm not in some sort of medical field. I tend to go along with my parents within reason. Sometimes, I will even try to go along with them despite my unhappiness. However, I've learned that me being ME, I really can't live like that. So I just do what I want behind the MoM's back...when I truly disagree.

I think, since I've been an adult, as far as major life decisions go, I've only disagreed with them [and acted without their knowledge]..hmm maybe 3 or 4 times.

[ByTmE]

That's besides the point. Sneaking into your girlfriend's room at night (if that's even true, given that the uncle who partook in the murders is the one who said this) does not warrant someone to be tortured to death. If the girl consented, the parents should have no right to intervene (especially like this) unless the guy posed a threat, which he did not in this case, as his only "fault" was being of a lower caste. He was not responsible of answering to the girl's parents, but to the girl herself.

Yes, I agree. I just think that the young man should have behaved with better decorum towards a girl that he was serious about. My remark was made towards his behavior, not that it may have justified any sort of retaliation from the young lady's family.

[xJadedx]

Yes, I agree. I just think that the young man should have behaved with better decorum towards a girl that he was serious about. My remark was made towards his behavior, not that it may have justified any sort of retaliation from the young lady's family.

Again, the comments about the young man's behaviour came from the uncle, who is probably not the most impartial source of information. In fact, the uncle only said that the young man came at a late time. It does not say anything about his feelings towards the girl in a negative way. Clearly, the girl did not mind him visiting her late, so really, he did no one wrong. He is courting the girl after all, not her parents.

[ByTmE]

Again, the comments about the young man's behaviour came from the uncle, who is probably not the most impartial source of information. In fact, the uncle only said that the young man came at a late time. It does not say anything about his feelings towards the girl in a negative way. Clearly, the girl did not mind him visiting her late, so really, he did no one wrong. He is courting the girl after all, not her parents.

Man, I wish I had the appropriate smiley right now. Well wouldn't even know what to call it. It's the expression that's between wanting to laugh in agreement but feigning propriety. And what's that word that's the opposite of old fashioned?

[Guo Xiang]

Again, the comments about the young man's behaviour came from the uncle, who is probably not the most impartial source of information. In fact, the uncle only said that the young man came at a late time. It does not say anything about his feelings towards the girl in a negative way. Clearly, the girl did not mind him visiting her late, so really, he did no one wrong. He is courting the girl after all, not her parents.

But it doesn't just involve her, sadly. The entire family obviously felt threatened, with their "honour" and "face" at stake, because of the two of them.

[kidd]

It's unfair, but the burden of the 'honor' of the family being placed on the shoulders of female members of the family has existed since time immemorial in all cultures. Ancient chinese culture was also the same. The whole family lost face if a female member of the family becomes impure.

[HuangYushi]

I'm risking a stoning from the other members who have posted before me by posting the following:

I feel that the incident should not be discussed according to a "western" and/or "westernized" understanding of the norms of courtship/relationship between two young people.

That the incident took place within a specific community in a specific location shows that the community still adheres strictly to its age-old customs, regardless of how modern law and order may outlaw (or seek to outlaw) them.

The murdered couple should have been prepared for such an end, knowing that such acts could (and eventually did) take place if they persisted in their relationship.

Unfortunately for them, neither was willing to let go of the other while they still could, leading to a tragedy that has been mirrored in real and reel life.

- - -

I have several colleagues of Indian descent, many of whom are single women. One of them was married recently, to a man who was chosen for her by her family. She could not even go out on a date with him even after her engagement. Any "dates" had to occur in her home, in full view of her entire family.

The wedding was held in another town, and all colleagues were invited to attend. One colleague, also a single woman of Indian descent, wanted to attend the wedding, but her family did not allow her to go. Despite their objections, she went anyway, and made her parents very very angry with her. Her older sister refused to even talk to her.

This unfortunate colleague also had a young man courting her (he used to hang around our workplace, and I initially threatened to call the police because he looked kinda unsavoury). Her parents disapproved of the man, but he threatened to kill himself if she refused to see him again. When she told us about this during a staff meeting, several married Indian colleagues told her to listen to her parents and forget about him.

And knowing the culture/tradition/customs (whatever you want to call it) in her community, I told her plainly that if she decides to run away with him (elope), she would lose her job. Because I can't have her parents demanding the company to "return" of their daughter if she still had her job with us after eloping with the man. If she does elope with the man and her family subsequently disowns her, she will have no support system whatsoever (due to the sheltered lifestyle practised on young women in the community) if the man turns out to be unreliable/untrustworthy. I (and the company we work in) cannot be responsible for her life.

Therefore, unless she has a better option, it is best for her that she stays within the boundaries of the culture/tradition/customs of her community.

Just like the couple who was killed.

- - -

OK, go ahead and stone me.

[xJadedx]

I get the concept of cultural relativism. But there are certain principles and values that should override even cultural norms. In this case, murdering your child so she wouldn't "dishonour" you is just wrong, irrelevant of the cultural settings. And if a culture practices or condones such behaviour, perhaps that culture needs to change some of its values (though that's usually difficult if not impossible).

[Trien Chieu]

This is parental disapproval (of children's chosen partners) taken to the extreme.

I hope they don't just a get a slap on the wrist and release. Honor killing murderers usually get a light sentence in places where it's tradition. There might be law set up against the practice, but, judges will usually rule more leniently.

I wish they didn't call it "honor killing," as the word "honor" has a slight positive connotation, whereas the action in this article is beyond horrible and beyond reason.

I wish the killers get the maximum allowed by law and as bad as the crime is, it was a honor killing. The family killed the couple for honor and reputation, not money or anything else. There are honor killings in Canada too, mostly immigrants from India and middle eastern countries where honor is extremely important to them.

HuangYushi, I agree with your point of view. Hey, were those young Indian ladies good looking?? If so, did you try to date them?

[HuangYushi]

Hey, were those young Indian ladies good looking?? If so, did you try to date them?

No thank you, you can have all of them.

I work with them, and these particular ones have work attitudes that leave much to be desired.

[kidd]

I feel sorry for HYS's colleague. She's forced from all directions to leave the guy. I feel suffocated just from reading about it.

But then, that guy that is courting her doesn't seem very dependable. How can one expect this man to take care of his family and be a pillar of strength and wisdom in tough situations when he acted so needy and melodramatic now? This is emotional blackmail. But, then, both sides (boyfriend and family) are emotional blackmailing girl.

[HuangYushi]

I feel sorry for HYS's colleague. She's forced from all directions to leave the guy. I feel suffocated just from reading about it.

But then, that guy that is courting her doesn't seem very dependable. How can one expect this man to take care of his family and be a pillar of strength and wisdom in tough situations when he acted so needy and melodramatic now? This is emotional blackmail. But, then, both sides (boyfriend and family) are emotional blackmailing girl.

You're too nice, kidd.

If you work with this young woman and has seen the kind of the work she has done (or not done, rather) because the man has been calling her during work hours and she actually takes those calls and entertains him for extended periods of time, you wouldn't feel sorry for either one of them. You'd want both of them to disappear ... at once.

[ByTmE]

I actually asked my father about this topic. He said, "If you live under your parents roof, you must follow their rules. If you don't want to follow their rules, then find your own freedom under another roof." Well, that's what he said LoL...think maybe the young lady Huang Yushi works with might be a little too sheltered and immature to grasp this.