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Thread: Abandoning baby resulting in death = murder. What do you think?

  1. #21
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pemberly View Post
    if the woman is to be condemned for carrying the baby to term and giving it up, wouldn't this just make them more likely to seek an abortion, legal or not? whatever your ethics standpoint is, i'd hope everyone realizes that a center to give up your child with no repercussions to a place that can give it proper medical care, is highly preferable to girls getting back alley abortions.
    The centre for giving up the child anonymously would be best since from what I see in news, most of the abandoning baby cases are done by the group that will get punished for illicit sex (I guess that include all sex beside sex within marriage) by law. Maybe that's why they have more abandon baby cases. Also, in that group, if your baby is born less than 6 months after you marriage, he/she will be considered illegitimate child.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  2. #22
    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Read this today in The Star today. The article gives out some strong points against this law.

    http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp...447&sec=nation

    The trials of teen mothers
    click to show/hide spoilers

    Young unwed mothers are as much victims as their unborn babies.

    LIKE many of her course mates, final-year accountancy student Mimi* cannot wait to graduate and start working. Yet, unlike them, her motivations are slightly different.

    “My parents have been looking after me and my baby girl. When I’m working, I can repay my parents for everything they have done for us and start building a new life for my daughter and me.”

    Mimi’s voice chokes up as she recalls how her parents helped her get back on her feet after her boyfriend left her pregnant in her first year at university.

    Although they were clearly angry and disappointed with her, she says, her parents soon forgave her and supported her throughout her pregnancy. They also encouraged her to continue her studies after giving birth, she adds.

    Every time she reads about dumped babies in the newspaper, she is struck by how lucky she was.

    “When I found out I was pregnant, I felt scared and lost. I kept wishing it would go away. I had no idea where to go and what to do. If not for my parents, I don’t know what would have happened.”

    It’s a different story for Janice*. Two years after giving up her baby, she still woke up crying.

    “I could not stop thinking about my baby boy but I knew that I could not keep him. My parents would have disowned me.”

    Ten years on, Janice’s parents are still unaware that she had a baby when she was in college. Ironically, she does not see her parents much now. She denies feeling bitter with her parents, however.

    “Even though I did not get any support from my family, I was lucky to have had help from my friends and pastor. I understand how some girls would become so afraid and desperate that they would dump their baby. I was like that; I was so scared of my parents finding out. I’m not saying it is right, but I can see why they do it,” she says.

    Unfortunately, many unwed mothers here go through their pregnancy alone, says Reproductive Rights Advocacy Alliance Malay sia (RRAAM) co-chair Rashidah Abdullah.

    “Many young girls who accidentally get pregnant do not have anyone to turn to. Most would have been abandoned by their boyfriends, if they were not raped. Those who dare tell their parents would either be forced to marry or be disowned from the family or be punished in some way. Very rarely will the family help, especially if the girl decides to keep the baby and raise him or her on her own,” she says.

    Desperate situations beget desperate measures, and she believes this is one of the reasons for the alarming practice of baby dumping in the country.

    According to the police, since 2005, a total of 472 babies have been abandoned, out of which half were found dead. So far this year, 65 dumped babies have been found.

    The severity of the situation has led the Cabinet to mull the death sentence for those found guilty of the crime.

    While most laud the Govern ment’s hardline approach, there are many others who feel that it will only do more harm than good.

    MCA president Datuk Seri Dr Chua Soi Lek, for one, believes that it could force women to commit more drastic crimes, such as burying their babies alive.

    Rashidah agrees that it can push despairing women over the edge.

    “Many unwed mothers are likely to be psychologically distressed and depressed. They may try to kill themselves as well as their baby. Already we have received reports of suicide among young unwed mothers, what more if there is a death penalty hanging over them?”

    Everyone’s daughter

    As reiterated by Datuk Dr Raj Karim, former regional director of the International Planned Parent hood Federation (East and South-East Asia and Oceania Region), the baby-dumping phenomenon is the end result of young pregnant mothers’ desperation – “all because they are too scared or too ashamed to get help”.

    Some factions want to categorise these unwed mothers as “high-risk” individuals – troubled youths from broken homes or those most vulnerable to crime – but many are regular, average young women, says Rashidah.

    “Many of the young women who find themselves with unwanted pregnancies are ordinary students; those who want to do many things in their lives but have made a mistake. They can be anybody’s daughter.”

    She urges for more empathy for the young unwed mothers.

    “No woman in her right mind will abandon her baby to die. Many leave them where they can be found and cared for by others but most women do not know where the safe places are to leave a baby. Then there are those who want to have the baby found but may be too terrified that they will be seen,” she says.

    Authorities need to be open so that they do not scare the young and unwed mothers from seeking help, says Arfidah Abdul Latiff, manager and outreach worker with youth shelter Rumah Sinar Salam in Chow Kit.

    For many, she adds, even getting medical help is an ordeal.

    “There are many who will scold them when they register for consultancy. They just want to lecture, or prosecute them, instead of helping them. That is why there are many cases of young girls who take extreme measures, such as dumping their baby.”

    Dr Raj also highlights the importance of youth-friendly medical services for teen mothers.

    “We can refer them to hospitals for medical help but if they only get nagged and lectured by the nurses and doctors, there is no point.”

    She says that in some countries, special clinics are set up for young people, where they can get medical service for their condition and address any sexual health issues they face.

    In developing countries like Cambodia and Thailand, which cannot afford specialised clinics, they provide a separate entrance at the clinics for young people who want to get help and advice about their sexual health.

    Family law practitioner Honey Tan points out that as baby dumping is a social problem, law is not the best way to deal with it.

    “Capital punishment will not prevent babies from being dumped. If capital punishment worked as a deterrent, we would have a marked decrease in, for example, drug trafficking. Instead, cases of drug trafficking are on the increase,” says Tan.

    Improve services

    Rashidah highlights that it is unfair to punish young people when they are not provided the necessary education and services on preventing unwanted pregnancies.

    “It is the Government’s responsibility to provide a high quality sex education in school and out of school programmes to inform the young about the chances of getting pregnant, the risks of unrestrained sexual desire as well as advice for what to do if they get pregnant.”

    Tan agrees, saying that taking preventive measures is the best way forward, although, she stresses, it is not sufficient to just say “premarital sex is against our religion” or that “our religion forbids premarital sex”.

    Rather than just preaching to young people about refraining from premarital sex, we need to equip them to make informed decisions. They must know about their bodies, their rights, how to respect each other, how to cope with the changes happening to them, and about healthy and safe sexual relations.

    We cannot deny that our young are sexual beings, Tan says.

    “We need to implement educational modules that deal frankly with these issues and responsible behaviour. Children and young people need to know why their hormones are making their bodies react in a certain way. Boys must learn to respect girls. Teenagers should learn that having sex is not the best way to show love for one another.”

    An important aspect is contraception, and we need to change our perception about it, urges Rashidah.

    The number of young people who wish to be sexually active has increased with modernisation, she says, but the issue of contraception and family planning services in Malay sia has not been reviewed since the late 1970s.

    Doctors have to provide the right guidance, including methods of contraception and how to get them, if young people consult them about having sex, instead of grilling them about their marital status, which is often the case, she adds.

    Dr Raj agrees, saying that it is vital that we provide young people with advice on how to keep safe and protect themselves.

    “Looking at the reality – how common casual sex is among the young – parents themselves need to gain knowledge and learn skills on how to provide advice to their children,” she says.

    For Tan, the answer is simple.

    “We have to change our own values: stop stigmatising unmarried women who are mothers and children who are born outside of marriage.”

    A change in mindset is definitely overdue.

    Unlike Mimi who is lucky to have her parents’ support in raising her child on her own, many who have an unwanted pregnancy find their life choices being restricted.

    Worse, many face a lifetime of shame and guilt.

    “It is essential that we address how to inform young people of their choices if they do have an unwanted pregnancy. We need to look at this issue more as a health and women’s rights issue than a moral issue. Young women are suffering due to lack of support and inadequate services. Many are forced to go through this traumatic experience alone,” Rashidah says.

    *Name has been changed to protect identity.
    Last edited by kidd; 08-21-10 at 09:54 PM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

  3. #23
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    Guys who are not living up to their responsibilities are worse than dogs and I have zero respect for them. However, girls should know better?? Why can't they be conservative and wait till marriage??

  4. #24
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    Guys who are not living up to their responsibilities are worse than dogs and I have zero respect for them. However, girls should know better?? Why can't they be conservative and wait till marriage??
    Fornication is a completely different topic. =)

  5. #25
    Senior Member Lucre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post

    I don't give the shit about the situation.
    sure, for someone who dont give a shit, you sure make alot of input.
    o wilku mowa...♪

    The only thing I need to know is that I don't know anything.

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