What do you think of this?

[Ken Cheng]

In this scenario, we have Person A and Person B.

Person A is a smart, hardworking, tough person. He also had a tough background, but overcame it to accomplish great things. Naturally, Person A is very proud of his achievements, and he deserves to be. Person A does not brag about his achievements, but he is undoubtedly proud of them.

Person B is not as smart, not as tough, and not as accomplished. Person B is luckier than Person A and didn't need to struggle as much, but Person B nevertheless is sincere and tries hard too. Person B's achievements are inferior to Person A's, but Person B nevertheless feels good about his more modest achievements. Person B also does not brag, but his pride in his more modest achievements is not less than Person A's pride in his greater achievements.

Person A constantly puts down Person B's achievements. Person A feels that because he had to struggle much more than Person B, and because he is more talented and achieved more, that Person B doesn't deserve to be proud of those lesser achievements because, in Person A's point of view, Person B is less talented and didn't have to struggle as much. Moreover, Person A believes that if Person B is honored for his modest accomplishments, it diminishes Person A's much greater achievements because they are not only greater, but required more talent and effort to achieve.

Question: is Person A morally justified in feeling this way, or is he being needlessly petty and mean?

[Guo Xiang]

Obviously Person A is all about "me me me me and me". If anything threatens his self-centred self-worth, he stamps on it.

IMHO A is being very jealous of B, because B had it easier and B FEELS GOOD even though he didn't achieve as much as A did, whereas A had to put in twice as much effort for his achievements and feel-good factor.

A should just stop bugging B. If A has got nothing better to do, he should go smash his head against the wall or go swimming.

PS. Ken, are you A or B?

[Ken Cheng]

Obviously Person A is all about "me me me me and me". If anything threatens his self-centred self-worth, he stamps on it.

IMHO A is being very jealous of B, because B had it easier and B FEELS GOOD even though he didn't achieve as much as A did, whereas A had to put in twice as much effort for his achievements and feel-good factor.

A should just stop bugging B. If A has got nothing better to do, he should go smash his head against the wall or go swimming.

PS. Ken, are you A or B?

I'm more a B. I'm not as talented or as accomplished as other people, but I am proud of the things I have accomplished. I feel that more accomplished and talented people are always putting me down, however, because their talent and accomplishments are greater than mine.

I actually quite dislike A-type people, really.

[So Yen]

In this scenario, we have Person A and Person B.

Person A is a smart, hardworking, tough person. He also had a tough background, but overcame it to accomplish great things. Naturally, Person A is very proud of his achievements, and he deserves to be. Person A does not brag about his achievements, but he is undoubtedly proud of them.

Person B is not as smart, not as tough, and not as accomplished. Person B is luckier than Person A and didn't need to struggle as much, but Person B nevertheless is sincere and tries hard too. Person B's achievements are inferior to Person A's, but Person B nevertheless feels good about his more modest achievements. Person B also does not brag, but his pride in his more modest achievements is not less than Person A's pride in his greater achievements.

Person A constantly puts down Person B's achievements. Person A feels that because he had to struggle much more than Person A, and because he is more talented and achieved more, that Person B doesn't deserve to be proud of those lesser achievements because, in Person A's point of view, Person B doesn't deserve that pride (Person B is less talented and didn't have to struggle as much). Moreover, Person A believes that if Person B is honored for his modest accomplishments, it diminishes Person A's much greater achievements because they are not only greater, but required more talent and effort to achieve.

Question: is Person A morally justified in feeling this way, or is he being needlessly petty and mean?

Lesser achievements are still achievements, so I don't think Person A should be treating B that way especially since you stated that Person B is also sincere and tries hard. Like someone said in another thread, some people just want to lead a simple life, so if Person B tries hard, is sincere about it, can only go so far and but is still proud of himself, then it shouldn't be a problem. Is Person B being praised as much or even more than Person A?

[Ken Cheng]

Lesser achievements are still achievements, so I don't think Person A should be treating B that way especially since you stated that Person B is also sincere and tries hard. Like someone said in another thread, some people just want to lead a simple life, so if Person B tries hard, is sincere about it, can only go so far and but is still proud of himself, then it shouldn't be a problem. Is Person B being praised as much or even more than Person A?

Person B is being praised as much as (or maybe slightly less than) Person A, but definitely not more than. Nevertheless, Person A feels that because he had to struggle more and achieved something much greater, Person B should get little or NO praise because Person B had it easier and didn't achieve as much. Person A feels that praise for Person B diminishes Person A's accomplishment (because in Person A's view, it becomes too "easy" or "cheap" to be praised).

[So Yen]

Person B is being praised as much as (or maybe slightly less than) Person A, but definitely not more than. Nevertheless, Person A feels that because he had to struggle more and achieved something much greater, Person B should get little or NO praise because Person B had it easier and didn't achieve as much. Person A feels that praise for Person B diminishes Person A's accomplishment (because in Person A's view, it becomes to "easy" or "cheap" to be praised).

I'd say Person A is wrong because even though he doesn't brag about his achievements, he still wants the recognitions for them and also by putting Person B down. It seems like a typical plot in a Korean drama.

[Banh Mi]

Person A is by all means an *** hat and a jerk, but at the same time, he can run Person B through the dirt as much as he wants because truth of the matter is, he is better. If Person B doesn't like it, he can step up his game or stay away from Person A.

[Ian Liew]

So Person A doesn't actively brag about his accomplishments, but expects that people butter him up and sing his praises, and gets upset when people decide to praise someone else instead? That's false humility, and renders his accomplishments moot, to me anyway. He is a man of weak character, and will never be content and happy in life, regardless of his academic and material ability.

He reminds me of people who never ask for anything, but expect it, drop hints all over the place, and get all stroppy when they don't get what they believe they deserve even though all they had to do is ask.

[kidd]

It is not morally justified for Person A to constantly put down Person B.

But, moral justification cannot be use on his/her feelings, because feelings is quite hard to control.

I feel that more accomplished and talented people are always putting me down, however, because their talent and accomplishments are greater than mine.

Either you live in a very sucky environment or you are thinking too much. 1 or 2 talented and highly accomplished people putting you down constantly, I can see. But, more accomplished and talented people as a whole are always putting you down?

If you really live in this environment, I feel bad for you.

[Snafu3721]

There is where I will differ greatly from all the previous opinions--

I personally think Person A deserves to be upset and is justified for feeling the way he/she does.

Here are the reasons why:

1) Back in High School, I have always felt a tiny bit irraitated when people praised my classmate Simon* (not the actual name) for being smart because he had decent grades. Other kids would also say "Simon, you're pretty smart, you have a 3.8 unweighted GPA!"....... Then I would think, Simon is not smart at all! That guy had to study for like 6 hrs prior to his exams; his family is wealthy enough to employ him a private tutor; and he had to do extra credit just to get his 3.8! I had better grades, rarely studied, and always beat him w/o extra credit. But, I was treated no different than Simon. Now, I never hated the guy or anything, nor was I bitter and angry over how Simon was treated. But I have to admit, a part of me always thought "He's not THAT smart".

2) Continuing along the education themed examples... I also didn't see it as fair when people who weren't as intelligent, who got lower SAT scores, but had deep pockets and connections got into the same universities I did. Now these friends (yes, these were my personal friends) also tried their best and put in effort so it's not that they just got a free pass. But it always bothered me a tiny bit when others say "You got into that college?! OMG you're so smart!" It's not like I'm trying to compare myself to them and make myself feel better for being smarter or anything. It's more like "ok, so you made the cut. Good for you. What, you want a cookie now?"

I'd say Person A is wrong because even though he doesn't brag about his achievements, he still wants the recognitions for them and also by putting Person B down. It seems like a typical plot in a Korean drama.

It's not that I want to necessarily want to boast or recognition from others that I'm better. It's just a sense where if I don't even feel that my own accomplishments deserve uber praise from others, then Peron B's inferior accomplishments shouldn't. (hard to explain this feeling)

[kidd]

If that Simon put in 6 hours prior to his exams, used private tutor (i.e. more hours studying) and did extra credit (i.e. more work), he totally deserves to be called smart just for his effort. Can't you spare him a little praise?

[Banh Mi]

It's not that I want to necessarily want to boast or recognition from others that I'm better. It's just a sense where if I don't even feel that my own accomplishments deserve uber praise from others, then Peron B's inferior accomplishments shouldn't. (hard to explain this feeling)

I associate that with people and things that are overated.
I don't like it when people just sit on the sidelines and criticize others. But when they step up and prove they're better. I say they have all the right to gloat until someone better comes along. The weak give way to the strong.

If that Simon put in 6 hours prior to his exams, used private tutor (i.e. more hours studying) and did extra credit (i.e. more work), he totally deserves to be called smart just for his effort. Can't you spare in a little praise?

You would call him persistent, but not smart. Much in the same way a lab rat presented with 10 buttons would keep pushing every button in a maze and receive an electric shock until it finds the right one which gives it the cheese.

Or like Nikola Tesla said about Thomas Edison
"“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”"

Sure, Edison is brilliant to us. But compared to Tesla, he's akin to an idiot child.

[Snafu3721]

If that Simon put in 6 hours prior to his exams, used private tutor (i.e. more hours studying) and did extra credit (i.e. more work), he totally deserves to be called smart just for his effort. Can't you spare in a little praise?

You brought up a great point!
I would have absolutely no problem if people said "Simon! You're so hardworking!" or "Simon, you're lucky that you can afford private tutoring!"

But to say "Simon, you're so Smart, you have Great GPA.. blah blah." I don't know... just something about that.

[Snafu3721]

I associate that with people and things that are overated.
I don't like it when people just sit on the sidelines and criticize others. But when they step up and prove they're better. I say they have all the right to gloat until someone better comes along. The weak give way to the strong.


You would call him persistent, but not smart. Much in the same way a lab rat presented with 10 buttons would keep pushing every button in a maze and receive an electric shock until it finds the right one which gives it the cheese.

Or like Nikola Tesla said about Thomas Edison
"“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”"

Sure, Edison is brilliant to us. But compared to Tesla, he's akin to an idiot child.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! Couldn't have articulated it better than that!

[Ren Wo Xing]

Concur strongly with Banh Mi. A might be an asshat, but if you don't like it, step your game up and work harder.

[kidd]

Actually, I can understand Person A's and Snafu's POV.

I remember in my primary school, during speech day, the school will give prize to the top student of every class. Now, every standard was divided into several classes, 1 class for top scorers, 1 class for weak student and the rest for the middle level students. I remember when the top student from the weak class gone up to take her prize I remember thinking "How unfair. The last student in the first class got better grades than her and most of the middle students who didn't get a prize also got better grades than her". Due to not doing my homework, I and several students from my class were punished by the headmistress to study in the weak class for a day. So, I know the level of ability of the students in this class and it's really below average. The class was so easy and unchallenging that I felt like I was just wasting my time there learning nothing and at that time and was so scared that I would be forever stuck in this class (we were not told that it was only temporary).

But, now, of course I think differently. The student did score top in her class and she worked hard within the best of her ability to reach the top, so, she deserve the prize.

I still disagree with Person A putting down Person B. I wouldn't do that even back then.

[wkeej]

I do not mind Person A bragging. At most, people will say, "self-pride, international disgrace". But by constantly putting B down, A has become arrogant. The motivation of A is possibly to make B feel bad. But with B not minding, A is further agitated. Thus, I think A is really petty.

[xJadedx]

Eh, I can't stand people who get all bent out of shape because they suffered oh so much for all their accomplishments and went through oh so much crap. Newsflash, a lot of people struggle to get to where they are. Good that you made it, but STFU and stop being a whiny little *****. That's the impression I'm getting from A based on the original post. Subsequent posts sort of delineated and are somewhat different issues.

[kay &!*]

i don't think it's ever right to put someone down. unless they're really stupid, ignorant, and deserves it

[Ian Liew]

You would call him persistent, but not smart. Much in the same way a lab rat presented with 10 buttons would keep pushing every button in a maze and receive an electric shock until it finds the right one which gives it the cheese.

Or like Nikola Tesla said about Thomas Edison
"“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”"

Sure, Edison is brilliant to us. But compared to Tesla, he's akin to an idiot child.

It would still reflect very poorly on Tesla if he took offence at people praising Edison just because they didn't praise him more. Demanding praise from the praisers is one thing, putting Edison down simply because he (Tesla) didn't get what he expected (but didn't ask for) is just petty and insecure. All people have their strengths and weaknesses, there may be situations where Edison's more exhaustive approach might uncover more information than Tesla's selective and informed one. You, and the other person being praised, cannot control who praises who. If I chose to praise Stefan Edberg for his amazing serve-and volley in the presence of Pete Sampras who was arguably a much better all-round player, Sampras better well accept my comment for what it is - praise for Edberg and none of Sampras' business. He could ask me "Hey, I'm better, aren't you gonna praise me?" but to abuse Edberg would be unacceptable.