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Thread: Zhang Wuji and ROCH end greats

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think you didn't even know what I mean YG with HIS in his early 20 years could rivalled any of Greats and their peers even he beat both of them what different between YG and Wuji both of them reach such very high level yet YG could perform better than Wuji in terms of "fighting" as for Greats no one of them reach their level in 20s you we couldn't talk much about it..
    I don’t think YG in his early 20’s is a match for ZWJ. Without the HIS, YG is probably a notch below Li Mochou. Zhang Wuji’s taijisword should be able to neutralise the advantage of the HIS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think you didn't even know what I mean YG with HIS in his early 20 years could rivalled any of Greats and their peers even he beat both of them what different between YG and Wuji both of them reach such very high level yet YG could perform better than Wuji in terms of "fighting" as for Greats no one of them reach their level in 20s you we couldn't talk much about it..
    You mean YG in his 20s vs a great in his 20s or you mean YG in his 20s vs a great when he meant them?

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    You mean YG in his 20s vs a great in his 20s or you mean YG in his 20s vs a great when he meant them?
    You should read my post correctly dude..

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyphung View Post
    I don’t think YG in his early 20’s is a match for ZWJ. Without the HIS, YG is probably a notch below Li Mochou. Zhang Wuji’s taijisword should be able to neutralise the advantage of the HIS.
    I terms of internal and "strength" Pre-16 years HIS YG might be couldn't compete with Wuji but if we talk about "fighting" YG would easily beat Wuji with HIS at that time..

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    20yo ZWJ would annihilate 20yo YG without HIS. Even LMC, GSZ et al would beat non-HIS YG.

    With HIS, YG would stand a better chance. However, HIS YG relied on pure strength to overpower opponents. HIS YG had no sophisticated technique. ZWJ only struggled against strong techniques like the 3 monk formation. So YG's HIS power has no effect on ZWJ's 9Yang power, not even to mention ZWJ could easily neutralize it with Taiji Sword.

    Compared to 20yo ZWJ, 20yo YG was inferior in both power and technique. At this reference point, their battle exeperience was the same (ZWJ after the 3 monk battle and YG after the QQR battle). ZWJ would beat YG, HIS or no HIS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    20yo ZWJ would annihilate 20yo YG without HIS. Even LMC, GSZ et al would beat non-HIS YG.

    With HIS, YG would stand a better chance. However, HIS YG relied on pure strength to overpower opponents. HIS YG had no sophisticated technique. ZWJ only struggled against strong techniques like the 3 monk formation. So YG's HIS power has no effect on ZWJ's 9Yang power, not even to mention ZWJ could easily neutralize it with Taiji Sword.

    Compared to 20yo ZWJ, 20yo YG was inferior in both power and technique. At this reference point, their battle exeperience was the same (ZWJ after the 3 monk battle and YG after the QQR battle). ZWJ would beat YG, HIS or no HIS.
    However, we must also take into account talent. YG took everything he was taught and made it unique to himself, creating a set of martial arts before he was forty that could rival anything the Greats in the 80's could do. I would say innate talent YG wins.

    We must also remember he fought Golden Wheel Monk to a stalemate and bested QQR with HIS while only having one arm. I do not see ZWJ internal power being stronger than GWM and his technique inferior to a veteran like QQR. Although ZWJ survived the 3 monks he definitely could not beat them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    However, we must also take into account talent. YG took everything he was taught and made it unique to himself, creating a set of martial arts before he was forty that could rival anything the Greats in the 80's could do. I would say innate talent YG wins.

    We must also remember he fought Golden Wheel Monk to a stalemate and bested QQR with HIS while only having one arm. I do not see ZWJ internal power being stronger than GWM and his technique inferior to a veteran like QQR. Although ZWJ survived the 3 monks he definitely could not beat them.
    Totally agree..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    However, we must also take into account talent. YG took everything he was taught and made it unique to himself, creating a set of martial arts before he was forty that could rival anything the Greats in the 80's could do. I would say innate talent YG wins.

    We must also remember he fought Golden Wheel Monk to a stalemate and bested QQR with HIS while only having one arm. I do not see ZWJ internal power being stronger than GWM and his technique inferior to a veteran like QQR. Although ZWJ survived the 3 monks he definitely could not beat them.
    Talent is important, no doubt. YG is certainly talented. But even with talent alone, I doubt he could defeat ZWJ if they’re both in their early twenties. Maybe if he has HIS and ZWJ is barehanded.

    YG would’ve lost to GLFW if not for XLN. As for QQR - ZWJ would win against him too if he was wielding the HIS.

    At the end of their respective novels, ZWJ would probably lose in terms of experience. But it would probably be close. ZWJ tend to match his power proportional to his opponent’s power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyphung View Post
    Talent is important, no doubt. YG is certainly talented. But even with talent alone, I doubt he could defeat ZWJ if they’re both in their early twenties. Maybe if he has HIS and ZWJ is barehanded.

    YG would’ve lost to GLFW if not for XLN. As for QQR - ZWJ would win against him too if he was wielding the HIS.

    At the end of their respective novels, ZWJ would probably lose in terms of experience. But it would probably be close. ZWJ tend to match his power proportional to his opponent’s power.
    Agree ZWJ lack of experience really would be a handicap, like when he faced the Persian Emissaries. On paper he should have walked the fight but their strange moves caught him by surprise. Could YG? He definitely had the experience but has he got the skills? Hard to say, XLN with left & right hand skill though definitely would have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyphung View Post
    Talent is important, no doubt. YG is certainly talented. But even with talent alone, I doubt he could defeat ZWJ if they’re both in their early twenties. Maybe if he has HIS and ZWJ is barehanded.

    YG would’ve lost to GLFW if not for XLN. As for QQR - ZWJ would win against him too if he was wielding the HIS.

    At the end of their respective novels, ZWJ would probably lose in terms of experience. But it would probably be close. ZWJ tend to match his power proportional to his opponent’s power.
    Well the novel itself say that JLFW is not YG "match' 16 years ago which mean Pre-16 years HIS YG > JLFW also you cannot automatic win with HIS unless you have the philosophy/secret behind HIS "simplicity bring superiority"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well the novel itself say that JLFW is not YG "match' 16 years ago which mean Pre-16 years HIS YG > JLFW also you cannot automatic win with HIS unless you have the philosophy/secret behind HIS "simplicity bring superiority"..
    By “not his match”, the author was referring to JLFW’s defeat at Chongyang Palace. But that defeat itself was because of XLN’s interference. But I digress, without XLN, YG may have performed better as he would be able to move around and use the HIS to it’s full potential. But without that sword, he would have lost.

    The HIS is a simple weapon. By it’s very own nature, it represents “simplicity bring superiority”. There’s not many other way you can apply such a weapon. It’s a blunt and heavy weapon. If you swing it at someone, they would likely be forced to avoid it. It’s prioritises raw power over flashy technique. Anyone who is capable of using the weapon should be able to employ that advantage. But it takes serious training to attain the kind of ability to wield it. ZWJ should be amongst the small handful of individuals with innate strength to be able to employ the HIS.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyphung View Post
    By “not his match”, the author was referring to JLFW’s defeat at Chongyang Palace. But that defeat itself was because of XLN’s interference. But I digress, without XLN, YG may have performed better as he would be able to move around and use the HIS to it’s full potential. But without that sword, he would have lost.

    The HIS is a simple weapon. By it’s very own nature, it represents “simplicity bring superiority”. There’s not many other way you can apply such a weapon. It’s a blunt and heavy weapon. If you swing it at someone, they would likely be forced to avoid it. It’s prioritises raw power over flashy technique. Anyone who is capable of using the weapon should be able to employ that advantage. But it takes serious training to attain the kind of ability to wield it. ZWJ should be amongst the small handful of individuals with innate strength to be able to employ the HIS.
    Yeah Wuji GJ XF and Greats could easily wield HIS but I doubt they could use it as good as YG that's why we call it Heavy Iron Sword "technique" which mean HIS not only about a "tool" but also "philosophy"..

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyphung View Post
    By “not his match”, the author was referring to JLFW’s defeat at Chongyang Palace. But that defeat itself was because of XLN’s interference. But I digress, without XLN, YG may have performed better as he would be able to move around and use the HIS to it’s full potential. But without that sword, he would have lost.

    The HIS is a simple weapon. By it’s very own nature, it represents “simplicity bring superiority”. There’s not many other way you can apply such a weapon. It’s a blunt and heavy weapon. If you swing it at someone, they would likely be forced to avoid it. It’s prioritises raw power over flashy technique. Anyone who is capable of using the weapon should be able to employ that advantage. But it takes serious training to attain the kind of ability to wield it. ZWJ should be amongst the small handful of individuals with innate strength to be able to employ the HIS.
    Somewhat debatable that YG would definitely lose to GWM, because with HIS he could defeat QQR who is generally regarded as 90-95% of a Great. So at this stage YG with HIS would have been minimum 91% and could have been up to 96% Great level. Could he beat GWM on his own, probably not, but would he survive and flee if he had to, definitely yes.

    HIS is not a magical weapon and does not in of itself enhance a person's fighting ability. It is a heavy blunt piece of metal and would be a hindrance when used in executing conventional martial arts. Any one but YG wielding it would have been severely handicapped, more so for ZWJ whose sword style is Tai Chi, which emphasis foot work, evasion and striking last but suppressing first. It would be suicide for him to use HIS.

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