Outrage as bleeding China toddler left on street

[Dirt]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-cold-hearts

Before giving himself up to the police, the driver of the second vehicle, a van, told the media why he had run away. "If she is dead, I may pay only about 20,000 yuan (£2,000). But if she is injured, it may cost me hundreds of thousands of yuan."

Exactly the way the people in Taiwan used to think before the 1990's and had more free-wheeling laws.

[kidd]

All you need to do is look at how compassion communist/Marxist leaders such as Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il were/are when they were/are on power. Do they give a shit about the well being of others?

Quote from this article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-cold-hearts

Under Mao, citizens were forced to behave themselves in both public and private spheres. Every March, people were obliged to go into the street to do good deeds: cleaning buses, fixing bicycles and offering haircuts. Now relaxed social control and commercialisation over the past three decades have led people to behave more selfishly again.

[Trien Chieu]

Quote from this article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-cold-hearts

Under Mao, citizens were forced to behave themselves in both public and private spheres. Every March, people were obliged to go into the street to do good deeds: cleaning buses, fixing bicycles and offering haircuts. Now relaxed social control and commercialisation over the past three decades have led people to behave more selfishly again.

They key word is FORCE, not willing. Did you read the entire article yourself? The main reason people refuse to help is because they afraid of getting prosecuted like Peng Yu from Nanjing by a f-up judge. And if you call an ambulance and the victim and his/her family have no money to pay, then you have to pay for it by law. Put yourself in these bystander shoes, you would do the same. Don't tell me that you would put yourself at risk and doing the right things, nobody would believe you. You would "SEE NO WRONG AND DO NO WRONG" and walk away. I admit I would do the same if I live in China because I do not want to become another Peng Yu myself. If China wants people to change, then they should change the law accordingly to protect the good samaritans.

[kidd]

事不關己己不勞心 (things that are not related to us, we labor over it)

Whose saying is this?

[kidd]

They key word is FORCE, not willing. Did you read the entire article yourself? The main reason people refuse to help is because they afraid of getting prosecuted like Peng Yu from Nanjing by a f-up judge. And if you call an ambulance and the victim and his/her family have no money to pay, then you have to pay for it by law. Put yourself in these bystander shoes, you would do the same. Don't tell me that you would put yourself at risk and doing the right things, nobody would believe you. You would "SEE NO WRONG AND DO NO WRONG" and walk away. I admit I would do the same if I live in China because I do not want to become another Peng Yu myself. If China wants people to change, then they should change the law accordingly to protect the good samaritans.

Yes, I read the entire article myself. Let me ask you in return. Did you read my entire comment, process it and try to get what I mean?

You said the 'shameless "look the other way"-ism' Ken talk about is Communism/Marxism at its purest form. When I ask when did communism and Marxism teaches the "look the other way" philosophy, you used Mao and other communist leaders as example. My example is just to refute this claim of yours, since, under Mao, people are encouraged/forced/obligated to do things for the community and other people. This is the exact opposite of 'look the other way'.

My example as nothing to do with the Peng Yu case. Please read people's comment properly and try to get what people are trying to say before replying. Don't just copy and paste the same comment as reply to whatever people say.

The Peng Yu case happen is not because of communism or marxism.

[kidd]

After listening to a RTHK show talking about this case, I can understand why those 18 people won't help. There's just way too many conmen in China who use all sorts of method to con money, including making use of corpses. Giving money to beggars in China only encourages unscrupulous people to kidnapped children (and adult) and chop off their limbs to beg for money. Someone in golden forum recounted his uncle to have a shop in China. He saw the shop opposite his caught fire and called the fire department. The firemen came and put out the fire and then asked for payment. The shop owner said he didn't call the fire department, its the other guy who called. The uncle ended up needed to fork out the money to the firemen. In a place that doing good not only doesn't pay, but, might even get you in trouble, it's no wonder that those people didn't help. One reporter to interview the old lady who helped even ask her 'What were you thinking when you helped the little girl? Weren't you afraid that you will get into trouble?'. When they reporter can ask such a question, you can see how bad the situation is in China. People in China are very suspicious of such cases.

This phenomena is really hard to rectify.

[Trien Chieu]

Yes, I read the entire article myself. Let me ask you in return. Did you read my entire comment, process it and try to get what I mean?

You said the 'shameless "look the other way"-ism' Ken talk about is Communism/Marxism at its purest form. When I ask when did communism and Marxism teaches the "look the other way" philosophy, you used Mao and other communist leaders as example. My example is just to refute this claim of yours, since, under Mao, people are encouraged/forced/obligated to do things for the community and other people. This is the exact opposite of 'look the other way'.

My example as nothing to do with the Peng Yu case. Please read people's comment properly and try to get what people are trying to say before replying. Don't just copy and paste the same comment as reply to whatever people say.

The Peng Yu case happen is not because of communism or marxism.

Communism/Marxism did not tell people to look away, but its policies discourage people to help others. Making people who call for an ambulance and people who call the fire department pay at the same time prosecuting people like Peng Yu would definitely scare people from doing the right thing.

After listening to a RTHK show talking about this case, I can understand why those 18 people won't help. There's just way too many conmen in China who use all sorts of method to con money, including making use of corpses. Giving money to beggars in China only encourages unscrupulous people to kidnapped children (and adult) and chop off their limbs to beg for money. Someone in golden forum recounted his uncle to have a shop in China. He saw the shop opposite his caught fire and called the fire department. The firemen came and put out the fire and then asked for payment. The shop owner said he didn't call the fire department, its the other guy who called. The uncle ended up needed to fork out the money to the firemen. In a place that doing good not only doesn't pay, but, might even get you in trouble, it's no wonder that those people didn't help. One reporter to interview the old lady who helped even ask her 'What were you thinking when you helped the little girl? Weren't you afraid that you will get into trouble?'. When they reporter can ask such a question, you can see how bad the situation is in China. People in China are very suspicious of such cases.

This phenomena is really hard to rectify.

This is the reason why I disagree with Ken and others that people are "shameless look other away"ism which is not true. It's the f-up law of the land and the f-up judges that prevent people to look other way. For people who called those bystanders heartless, put yourself in their shoes, and see whether you would risk yourself to become another Peng Yu. Again, if China wants people to change for the better then the law must changes to protect them. I would act the same way as those 18 bystanders if I live in China.

[Dirt]

Quote from this article
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-cold-hearts

Under Mao, citizens were forced to behave themselves in both public and private spheres. Every March, people were obliged to go into the street to do good deeds: cleaning buses, fixing bicycles and offering haircuts. Now relaxed social control and commercialisation over the past three decades have led people to behave more selfishly again.

And in Jan, Feb, Apr, May, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov and Dec, those people were obliged to smash educated people's faces into walls.

[Dirt]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45027641...-asia_pacific/

Hey, maybe they'll teach everybody what to do if they see a 2 year old run over by a van.

[Trien Chieu]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45027641...-asia_pacific/

Hey, maybe they'll teach everybody what to do if they see a 2 year old run over by a van.

If the existent law stays the same, people won't change. People with common sense and have something to lose wouldn't want to risk everything they have by becoming another Peng Yu.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news...-1226174455210

The Peng Yu case is the most notorious of these. Five years ago, in Nanjing, Peng helped an elderly woman who had fallen. She later said Peng had pushed her over.

The court found for the woman, charging Peng for some of the costs, saying that he would not have helped her "if he had not caused the fall".

In Rugao two months ago, a bus driver stopped his vehicle when he saw an 81-year-old woman lying on the ground near her overturned tricycle and went to her aid. She recovered sufficiently, with his help, to tell police that it was the man's bus that had hit her tricycle.

Fortunately for the driver, the bus was fitted with a video camera and police released him after viewing the film. When this case hit the national news, sales of such cameras went through the roof.
"Everybody knows that the incidents of the helped framing the helper account for only a small percentage of such good deeds," Liu said.

"But they take such an attitude for two reasons: first, they fear falling into the hands of a 'muddle-headed judge' like the one in the Peng Yu case and, second, those who frame their helpers are never punished."

Other elements of this bad Samaritan syndrome include the recent increase in litigiousness in China - where traditionally there has been reluctance to become involved in courts - and the fear of being held responsible for the often exorbitant fees of hospitals if they treat people who are helped and who cannot meet the payments.

[kidd]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45027641...-asia_pacific/

Hey, maybe they'll teach everybody what to do if they see a 2 year old run over by a van.

This is treating the symptom and not the core of the ailment. What more it's not a very effective treatment. Feel bad for the TV stations.

[Trien Chieu]

Three more kids got killed by cars
http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/26/tw...ong-yueyue.php

[kidd]

Three more kids got killed by cars
http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/26/tw...ong-yueyue.php

Kids died like this all over the world, not only China. These accidents are different from Yue Yue's case. The main concern in Yue Yue's case is no one offered a helping hand despite walking by the injured girl. But, in the cases reported in that article, there were people who take action immediately.

[Guo Xiang]

Kids died like this all over the world, not only China. These accidents are different from Yue Yue's case. The main concern in Yue Yue's case is no one offered a helping hand despite walking by the injured girl. But, in the cases reported in that article, there were people who talk action immediately.

Because there's no Like button, so I'm posting to say I like your post, which said exactly what I wanted to say.

[Trien Chieu]

Seniors accused of pretending to fall and extorting money from Good Samaritans
http://shanghaiist.com/2011/10/30/se...alling_and.php

[Ian Liew]

It's not just China which has this bystander effect. The scenario might be different but the attitude of passer-bys is the same, just arguably not quite to the same degree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIvGIwLcIuw

[Trien Chieu]

It's not just China which has this bystander effect. The scenario might be different but the attitude of passer-bys is the same, just arguably not quite to the same degree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIvGIwLcIuw

If western countries have similar laws like China, they would react the same way as the Chinese. I don't blame the bystanders from China given the environment as they do not want to become another Peng Yu themselves. For people who accuse those bystanders for doing nothing, put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself whether you would risk yourself to become another Peng Yu.

[kidd]

It's not just China which has this bystander effect. The scenario might be different but the attitude of passer-bys is the same, just arguably not quite to the same degree.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIvGIwLcIuw

A like the Yue Yue case where some people accused the kind-hearted lady who helped her as looking for fame and money, some people in youtube said the people who did the experiment purposely used the scene of 2 black men helping the girl to make black people look good.

[Ian Liew]

If western countries have similar laws like China, they would react the same way as the Chinese. I don't blame the bystanders from China given the environment as they do not want to become another Peng Yu themselves. For people who accuse those bystanders for doing nothing, put yourself in their shoes and ask yourself whether you would risk yourself to become another Peng Yu.

But they don't in this case, yet they still act that way. Humans aren't as caring and social conscious as you believe. Some are, but many are not, and it's one thing to criticise the Peng Yu case, it's another to use it as an excuse for cold-blooded heartless behaviour everywhere. And I really don't see how the Chinese government need to take the blame for this - in that case, the governments of all countries need to be blamed for the general apathy all around the world. Yes, they don't reward people and actively encourage them from helping, but which government does?

Another example.. note that again, it's not China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGaJrgi_SpE

On a side note, was it established that Peng Yu was actually innocent, though, or is there a chance he was really guilty?

A like the Yue Yue case where some people accused the kind-hearted lady who helped her as looking for fame and money, some people in youtube said the people who did the experiment purposely used the scene of 2 black men helping the girl who make black people look good.

Even if it was a PR stunt, it is clear that there are many people out there who would just ignore the situation and try to avoid being involved (although they'd be more than happy to keep watching from a distance to see what happens).

[kidd]

Another example.. note that again, it's not China.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGaJrgi_SpE

I find the woman collapsing in the hospital waiting room and no one help most scary. The other cases, maybe the passers-by think someone else would help. But, the waiting room case, the incident happen in a small room. Everyone can see no other person is helping. Why still no one call for help? It's a hospital for God's sake. There should be nurses and doctors nearby.