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Thread: Discussion of 1970s and 1980s TVB Gu Long adaptations

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    Default Discussion of 1970s and 1980s TVB Gu Long adaptations

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The wuxia beauty that I'm most curious about is Lam Sin Yee from Gu Long's SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD. Apparently, the only man immune to Miss Lam's charms was Lee Chum Foon. Ah Fei, Ging Mo Meng, Seung Gwoon Gum Hung...they were all vulnerable to her wiles.
    I really want to learn more about Gu Long's stories. I don't think I have the time to read the translation of Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword. The only source I have are adaptations, but there's not many Gu Long adaptations around. I watched The Legend of Dagger Li 1999 from Taiwan (the one starring Vincent Jiao) but it was a long time ago and I was too young to understand anything. I also remember the series getting long and draggy. I'm interested in learning about mysterious, cunning beauties in wuxia and Lin Xian'er is one of them. Too bad there's only JY's top 5 novels' adaptations floating out there.

    I'm gonna start watching, for the first time, The Return of Luk Siu-fung 1986 from TVB tonight. I'm excited
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuet Thi View Post
    I really want to learn more about Gu Long's stories. I don't think I have the time to read the translation of Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword. The only source I have are adaptations, but there's not many Gu Long adaptations around. I watched The Legend of Dagger Li 1999 from Taiwan (the one starring Vincent Jiao) but it was a long time ago and I was too young to understand anything. I also remember the series getting long and draggy. I'm interested in learning about mysterious, cunning beauties in wuxia and Lin Xian'er is one of them. Too bad there's only JY's top 5 novels' adaptations floating out there.

    I'm gonna start watching, for the first time, The Return of Luk Siu-fung 1986 from TVB tonight. I'm excited
    RETURN OF LUK SIU FUNG was a really fun series to watch, but in terms of accuracy in adapting the novels, it wasn't so great. It was like 10% EMBROIDERY THIEF (LUK SIU FUNG Book 2), 10% SILVER HOOK CASINO (LUK SIU FUNG Book 4), 10% THE HAUNTED VILLA (LUK SIU FUNG Book 5, which was somewhat more properly adapted by TVB during the 1970s), 10% THE MYSTERIOUS ISLAND (or whichever book that had Gung 9 and the girl named Beef Soup in it), and 60% TVB "original" wuxia ideas.

    I preferred TVB's 1970s LUK SIU FUNG adaptations, which were very accurate in the first two series (especially the first one).

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I preferred TVB's 1970s LUK SIU FUNG adaptations, which were very accurate in the first two series (especially the first one).
    The 1970s Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword was also very accurate to the novel, and is really watchable even today (if you can ignore the change in cast midway through).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    The 1970s Sentimental Swordsman, Ruthless Sword was also very accurate to the novel, and is really watchable even today (if you can ignore the change in cast midway through).
    It's one of my favorite wuxia adaptations. People who don't like it complain that it's slow and draggy, and I can see their point, but I think the series was loaded with intense drama. The principals (Paul Chu as Lee Chum Foon, Wong Yeun Sun as Ah Fei, Cecilia Wong as Lam Sin Yee, Kwan Chung as Ging Mo Meng) played their roles *really* well. Just a great series, in my opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I preferred TVB's 1970s LUK SIU FUNG adaptations, which were very accurate in the first two series (especially the first one).
    Aw. I was hoping for it to be accurate. Oh well, at least it'll give me the basics on each character.

    Is the 1970s one Luk Siu-fung 1976 with Damian Lau and Adam Cheng? I can't find that version anywhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yuet Thi View Post
    Aw. I was hoping for it to be accurate. Oh well, at least it'll give me the basics on each character.

    Is the 1970s one Luk Siu-fung 1976 with Damian Lau and Adam Cheng? I can't find that version anywhere.
    It was out on VCD (not DVD, unfortunately) a few years ago, but is presently out of print. It's worth getting if you can somehow find it because it's the definitive, most accurate LUK SIU FUNG adaptation ever made (and fun to watch in its own right, though slower in pace than the 1980s version).

    Cast:

    Luk Siu Fung - Damian Lau
    Fa Mun Lau - Wong Wan Choi
    Sai Mun Chui Sheut - Wong Yeun Sun
    Yip Goo Sing - Adam Cheng
    Sheun Sau Ching - Cecilia Wong
    Honest Monk - Lo Hoi Pang
    Princess Seung Gwoon Dan Fung/Seung Gwoon Fei Yin - Hon Ma Lei
    Dook Goo 1 Hok - Kwan Hoi San (Part 1)
    Jade Taoist/Old Saber Tyrant - Kwan Hoi San (Part 3)

    Truly classic TVB wuxia.

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    I like The Return of Luk Siu-fung 1986 for the simple fact that it expanded on the role of Fa Mun Lau and made Fa Mun Lau really really likable, not to mention, Wong Wan Choi gave a wonderful portrayal of the character.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    I like The Return of Luk Siu-fung 1986 for the simple fact that it expanded on the role of Fa Mun Lau and made Fa Mun Lau really really likable, not to mention, Wong Wan Choi gave a wonderful portrayal of the character.
    Well, he was great in the 1970s version too. Wong Wan Choi was the only TVB actor whom TVB asked to reprise his original role from the 1970s version in the 1980s version (which speaks volumes about how he totally owned the role of Fa Mun Lau); everybody else was replaced. Overall, I think the 1970s actors did better in their roles than their 1980s counterparts did, but Wong Wan Choi was great both times. He did play Fa Mun Lau somewhat differently in the two adaptations, though. In the 1970s adaptation, he went much more "by the the book" (both literally and figuratively). In the 1980s, he expanded upon his performance more. They're two (slightly) different interpretations of the character, but great either way.

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    I prefer his portrayal in the 80s version more. His performance in the 70s version did not awe me as much as the 70s version. Before I watch the 80s version, I felt the best Fa Mun Lau was Ken Chang (from the mainland 07 version). But after watching the 80s version, I felt WWC top Ken Chang. I think playing the character second time around, he has improved on it.

    The best ever Sai Mun Chui Seut to me is still Wong Yeun Sun. No one can give off the chill like he did in the 70s Luk Siu Fung.
    Last edited by kidd; 03-17-12 at 03:19 AM.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post

    The best ever Sai Mun Chui Seut to me is still Wong Yeun Sun.
    Oh, hell yes. This character is extremely hard to get *right*, and other than Wong Yeun Sun, *every* actor who's tried the role has failed miserably.

    Wong Yeun Sun owned this character as much as Wong Wan Choi owned Fa Mun Lau.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    I think playing the character second time around, he has improved on it.
    TVB seemed to take a different approach during the 1980s than it did during the 1970s. In the 1980s series, TVB seemed to instruct Wong to do the character his way (giving him the green light to extemporize a bit and spin the character his own way), but during the 1970s, TVB seemed to want him to play the character more by the book (both in terms of trying to reproduce the novel's version of the character faithfully and not giving the actor too much free reign to extemporize).

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    Senior Member mawguy's Avatar
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    agree that paul chu, damian lau, wong wan choi, and wong yuen sun owned those roles. even given first impressions bias--i was surprised to be preferring huang xiaoming over andy lau's older yang guo after all this time. anyway.

    when comparing adaptations, mention should also be made of the superiority of the wong yuen sun/shek sau version of the twins as compared to the tony leung version, in spite the general overall cheapness of the production--this can be said of more than one of the 70s/really early 80s sets compared to later ones. and ditto sabre god--damian lau vs eddie kwan, i mean, come on!
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    Quote Originally Posted by kidd View Post
    The best ever Sai Mun Chui Seut to me is still Wong Yeun Sun. No one can give off the chill like he did in the 70s Chor Lau Heung.
    *nods emphatically* didn't both adam cheng and kwan chung look like stiffs in their feeble attempts to be "cool" like wong yuen sun. god that scene on the rooftop will be forever seared into my memory about the difference between good and shitty acting abilities.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawguy View Post
    *nods emphatically* didn't both adam cheng and kwan chung look like stiffs in their feeble attempts to be "cool" like wong yuen sun. god that scene on the rooftop will be forever seared into my memory about the difference between good and shitty acting abilities.
    I thought Adam Cheng and Kwan Chung were all right, but Wong Yeun Sun commanded his character more fully than Cheng and Kwan commanded theirs.

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    Senior Member mawguy's Avatar
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    the other interesting fact to add to this discussion is the fact that atv's attempts at adapting gu long are pretty much forgotten in the sands of time. i would've loved to see damian lau's portrayal of ye kai, which i'm told is fantastic (little doubt of that, but first-hand experience is still that). and i'm told he coached chan fook sang in her role and helped bring out a much more nuanced performance.

    and it's also interesting to note that tvb didn't really bother to go through the GL canon like shaw brothers did--possibly because the movies were so well-received. it's a pity, though, because some of the movies could've used more fleshing out in tv series format. and while the 70s versions are generally more in keeping to the spirit of the books, the arbitrary changes they did make were hit and miss (and it seems tvb did the opposite with JY adaptations).

    oh, and harking back to the original post and the comment about wuxia femme fatales like lin xian'er, i think li xuanhuan was protected by his unrequited love for his ex-fiancee, so he was able to withstand the evil siren whereas the others were not.
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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mawguy View Post
    when comparing adaptations, mention should also be made of the superiority of the wong yuen sun/shek sau version of the twins as compared to the tony leung version, in spite the general overall cheapness of the production--this can be said of more than one of the 70s/really early 80s sets compared to later ones. and ditto sabre god--damian lau vs eddie kwan, i mean, come on!
    I thought Sabre God would be Damian Lau vs Louis Koo - unless Eddie Kwan did a Ding Pang as well? Eddie did a Li Xunhuan, and darn was that serial awful, even if the song was really nice.

    I have always attributed the difference in aura on that rooftop scene between Wong and Adam to be due to their situation. Adam had lost everything, and was totally defeated, deflated and in a hopeless position, and his overall posture reflected that. After his little discussion with Damian, Adam's back straightened just a little, his face calmed down just a little, and he regained his composure and coolness. Wong, on the other hand, had this aura of righteousness and arrogance about him, which completely suited the situation he was in. Both men were not meeting on even terms, and hence they could not possibly generate the same aura.

    There was also that earlier scene with the fake Adam, of course, and even then the aura wasn't quite the same. But hey, it wasn't supposed to be the real Ye Gucheng, was it? Nevertheless, despite being an Adam fan, I have to admit that as good as an actor he was, Wong Yuen Sun completely nailed the personality of the lonely swordsman and you just couldn't compare the two performances - in the same way that Wong could never play Chu Liuxiang the same way Adam did.

    While we're talking about 1970s TVB Gu Long adaptations I'd like to put in my usual praise for One Sword. It was only part Gu Long, of course, and even then only in plot (it was a merged Wan Hua Xi Jian Lu and Xiao Ao Jiang Hu plot, with renamed characters), but it was done so beautifully. Cecilia Wong as (effectively) Ren Yingying was absolutely amazing, and the Xiao Ao Jiang Hu portions were infinitely better than the 1980s Chow Yun Fat version. We might laugh and say that it wasn't hard given how horrible that series was, but we have to remember that although Chow was horribly miscast the rest of the supporting cast were TVB's golden 80s support cast, and they didn't do a bad job at all. One Sword really carried the Xiao Ao Jiang Hu portion of the story well. The Wan Hua Xi Jian Lu portion wasn't that long, but Fung Bobo's boy role as (effectively) Fang Baoer was very convincing and well-done. Adam was arguably a bit young to be (effectively) Ziyihou, but he still oozed that daxia aura. It's also a chance to see the late Chan Hung Lit in one of his younger roles as (effectively) Baiyiren, and even in his youth he carried an unmistakable "killer aura". Add to that Kwan Hoi San's (effective) Yue Buqun and Shek Kin's (effective) Zuo Lengchan, a classic 70s soundtrack and a couple of famous Adam Cheng themesongs and it's not one to be missed at all!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    I have always attributed the difference in aura on that rooftop scene between Wong and Adam to be due to their situation. Adam had lost everything, and was totally defeated, deflated and in a hopeless position, and his overall posture reflected that. After his little discussion with Damian, Adam's back straightened just a little, his face calmed down just a little, and he regained his composure and coolness. Wong, on the other hand, had this aura of righteousness and arrogance about him, which completely suited the situation he was in. Both men were not meeting on even terms, and hence they could not possibly generate the same aura.

    There was also that earlier scene with the fake Adam, of course, and even then the aura wasn't quite the same. But hey, it wasn't supposed to be the real Ye Gucheng, was it? Nevertheless, despite being an Adam fan, I have to admit that as good as an actor he was, Wong Yuen Sun completely nailed the personality of the lonely swordsman and you just couldn't compare the two performances - in the same way that Wong could never play Chu Liuxiang the same way Adam did.
    One thing to bear in mind as well is that although Sai Mun Chui Sheut and Yip Goo Sing were very similar in many ways, they were also subtly very different in other ways. I think the worst thing that Adam Cheng could have done in portraying Yip Goo Sing was attempt to ape Wong Yeun Sun's Sai Mun Chui Sheut. Yip Goo Sing was Sai Mun Chui Sheut's rival, but not his clone. I was able to buy into Adam Cheng as the character of Yip Goo Sing as much as I was able to buy into Wong Yeun Sun as the character of Sai Mun Chui Sheut, so as far as I'm concerned, Adam accomplished his mission in the series.

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    Since this discussion began with THE RETURN OF LUK SIU FUNG, I think I'll evaluate some of the main actors' performances in this 1986 TVB series.

    Alex Man as Luk Siu Fung: I've never liked Alex Man as an actor. I think he's a bit of a ham and overacts in most of his roles. He was effective as Luk Siu Fung, however, and really played the charming scoundrel aspect of the character well. Still, he often couldn't help going into Alex Man Overacting Mode, and when he did, his Luk Siu Fung character could get on your nerves. He didn't play the character with the relaxed, easygoing vibe that Damian Lau brought to the character during the 1970s. My overall grade for Alex Man as Luk Siu Fung is a "B."

    Wong Wan Choi as Fa Mun Lau: As previously said, he owned the role during the 1970s and *still* owned the role during the 1980s. Wong was livelier as Fa in the 1986 production than he was in the 1970s series, but that was as much due to the writers and directors as it was Wong's acting abilities. In either decade, however, Wong Wan Choi gets an "A+" for his portrayal of Fa Mun Lau.

    Austin Wai as Sai Mun Chui Sheut: Physically, Austin Wai was an impressive-looking SMCS and his martial arts moves were the best of any member of the cast. That, however, is where the good news ends. Austin Wai completely failed to capture the coolness of the SMCS character. Wai as SMCS seemed perpetually pissed off (or like he'd swallowed a raw lime) throughout the entire series, and just completely failed to capture the essence of the character. If you compare Wai's portrayal of SMCS to his predecessor from the 1970s series, Wong Yeun Sun, it's especially embarrassing. The best I can give Austin Wai for his depiction of Sai Mun Chui Sheut is a "C," and that's being generous.

    Bobby Au Yeung as Honest Monk: I felt that Bobby Au Yeung was a little too young for the role of the Honest Monk. Even in 1986, Au Yeung was a fine actor who could convincingly carry a role, but his Honest Monk seemed a little too goofy (again, more the fault of the writers/director than the actor). When Lo Hoi Pang played the Honest Monk in the 1970s series, he was jovial, but beneath that jovial surface, you could sense that the Honest Monk was a formidable wulin warrior who was not to be tarried with. I couldn't take Bobby Au Yeung's Honest Monk seriously, and the character seemed to be played for laughs. I'd say a "B-" here.

    Chun Wong as Chu Ting: Only had a brief cameo in the series, and seemed to be trying to portray Chow Bak Tung again, which is COMPLETELY WRONG for Chu Ting (a stoic guy who almost makes SMCS look like a wild party animal by comparison). Chun Wong is great at doing Chow Bak Tung characters, but Chu Ting wasn't that kind of character. "D"

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Austin Wai as Sai Mun Chui Sheut: Physically, Austin Wai was an impressive-looking SMCS and his martial arts moves were the best of any member of the cast. That, however, is where the good news ends. Austin Wai completely failed to capture the coolness of the SMCS character. Wai as SMCS seemed perpetually pissed off (or like he'd swallowed a raw lime) throughout the entire series, and just completely failed to capture the essence of the character. If you compare Wai's portrayal of SMCS to his predecessor from the 1970s series, Wong Yeun Sun, it's especially embarrassing. The best I can give Austin Wai for his depiction of Sai Mun Chui Sheut is a "C," and that's being generous.

    Bobby Au Yeung as Honest Monk: I felt that Bobby Au Yeung was a little too young for the role of the Honest Monk. Even in 1986, Au Yeung was a fine actor who could convincingly carry a role, but his Honest Monk seemed a little too goofy (again, more the fault of the writers/director than the actor). When Lo Hoi Pang played the Honest Monk in the 1970s series, he was jovial, but beneath that jovial surface, you could sense that the Honest Monk was a formidable wulin warrior who was not to be tarried with. I couldn't take Bobby Au Yeung's Honest Monk seriously, and the character seemed to be played for laughs. I'd say a "B-" here.
    Austin portrayed a very cool and effective One Dot Red in the New Adventures of Chor Lau Heung, which was a year or two earlier than Return of Luk Siu Fung. He didn't look anywhere near as cool in white, I guess, and we had Wong Yuen Sun's excellent precedent for him to try and light his candle to, while Wong Shu Tong's One Dot Red in the 70s Chor Lau Heung, while adequate, was never a stand-out character at all. There's also far more to XMCS than just being cold and unfeeling. While we have to account for the fact Austin Wai was never a really outstanding actor in the first place (although he was quite adequate) we can't blame him entirely. Wong Yuen Sun had the novel canon XMCS to portray and the entire characterisation of the man was scripted in the novel. The 86 serial was more of a TVB Golden 80s fun project, and actors were encouraged to be themselves, rather than be the character (look at Barbara Yung's Wong Yung, for example). Some, like Wong Wan Choy, had the experience to draw upon to make his Fa Mun Lau more modern, but with still the essence of the character preserved. Others, like Austin, didn't really have a prayer with just a TVB script to guide him.

    With regard to Honest Monk, Lo Hoi Pang felt more than formidable - you could feel some kind of menace, almost as if you were never sure if he was really good or actually secretly bad. The kind of friend who you don't want to have turn against you. Bobby was just more of a friendly, nice groupie.
    Last edited by Ian Liew; 03-17-12 at 09:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    Austin portrayed a very cool and effective One Dot Red in the New Adventures of Chor Lau Heung, which was a year or two earlier than Return of Luk Siu Fung. He didn't look anywhere near as cool in white, I guess, and we had Wong Yuen Sun's excellent precedent for him to try and light his candle to, while Wong Shu Tong's One Dot Red in the 70s Chor Lau Heung, while adequate, was never a stand-out character at all. There's also far more to XMCS than just being cold and unfeeling. While we have to account for the fact Austin Wai was never a really outstanding actor in the first place (although he was quite adequate) we can't blame him entirely. Wong Yuen Sun had the novel canon XMCS to portray and the entire characterisation of the man was scripted in the novel. The 86 serial was more of a TVB Golden 80s fun project, and actors were encouraged to be themselves, rather than be the character (look at Barbara Yung's Wong Yung, for example). Some, like Wong Wan Choy, had the experience to draw upon to make his Fa Mun Lau more modern, but with still the essence of the character preserved. Others, like Austin, didn't really have a prayer with just a TVB script to guide him.

    With regard to Honest Monk, Lo Hoi Pang felt more than formidable - you could feel some kind of menace, almost as if you were never sure if he was really good or actually secretly bad. The kind of friend who you don't want to have turn against you. Bobby was just more of a friendly, nice groupie.
    A very fair assessment.

    I don't think that Austin Wai had any problems pulling off Sai Mun Chui Sheut's physical presence. He *looked* the part just fine, and in still pictures of him in character as Sai Mun Chui Sheut, he looks quite impressive. When he actually has to *act* the character, however, then he has problems.

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