Dugu Qiubai's disciple/successor in ROCH?

[PJ]

Which MA are you speaking of besides HIS? His first sword was an extremely sharp one, and his second sword was a flexible one. Surely these two swords weren't used in the same manner as the HIS, what makes it so implausible that he would use them in a manner like Dugu 9 Jian?

None of them fits with Dugu 9 Jian. Here's what Feng Qingyang said:

1. 创制这套剑法的独孤求败前辈，名字叫做‘求败’，他老人家毕生想求一败而不可得，这剑法施展出来，天下无敌 ，又何必守？如果有人攻得他老人家回剑自守，他老人家真要心花怒放，喜不自胜了。

2. 独孤前辈当年挟此剑横行天下，欲求一败而不可得，那是他老人家已将这套剑法使得出神入化之故。

This tells us that Dugu Qiubai, with Dugu 9 Swords, already reached the stage of peerlessness and was desperately seeking someone who could make him block a stance. I don't think this can be before HIS. I mean, why the hell would he need to come up with a giant weapon if before that he was already peerless?

[PJ]

You might then say OK, maybe Dugu 9 Swords is the stage after HIS. But that doesn't make sense either. HIS is technique-less; it doesn't make sense that Dugu Qiubai's next invention would be technique-bound like Dugu 9 Jian (even if the techniques are unconventional).

What I think, is that Dugu 9 Swords was developed separately from the ROCH stages of Dugu Qiubai. Dugu 9 Swords actually encompasses all of the stages of ROCH, from beginning to end. It should have been developed very late in Dugu Qiubai's life, perhaps as he was thinking of preserving the essence of his arts in a simplified and elegant manner.

[PJ]

Someone (was it you, PJ?) once drew up a diagram that showed how DGSD fed into the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY and SPW on two separate forks. In other words, on one fork, DGSD led into LOCH and continued through ROCH and HSDS, but the timeline did not proceed beyond HSDS into SPW. On the other fork, the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY was completely bypassed and DGSD fed directly into SPW.

Nope, wasn't me. But sounds fun I like the fork approach.

[tape]

None of them fits with Dugu 9 Jian. Here's what Feng Qingyang said:

1. 创制这套剑法的独孤求败前辈，名字叫做‘求败’，他老人家毕生想求一败而不可得，这剑法施展出来，天下无敌 ，又何必守？如果有人攻得他老人家回剑自守，他老人家真要心花怒放，喜不自胜了。

2. 独孤前辈当年挟此剑横行天下，欲求一败而不可得，那是他老人家已将这套剑法使得出神入化之故。

This tells us that Dugu Qiubai, with Dugu 9 Swords, already reached the stage of peerlessness and was desperately seeking someone who could make him block a stance. I don't think this can be before HIS. I mean, why the hell would he need to come up with a giant weapon if before that he was already peerless?

I hope I'm not coming across as being difficult, but I don't see being undefeated as a reason for not coming up with any new sword styles or martial arts afterwards.

Perhaps after accidentally wounding the righteous man, he realized that even though he was still undefeatable and peerless, his martial arts still aren't perfect. He wanted something that didn't rely on his opponent's reacting a certain way and wanted to just overwhelm them with sheer power and have more control of the fight that way.

Or throwing that all away, he just wanted to experiment with another way of fighting since nobody could defeat his previous style and he had nothing else to do. Zhang Sanfeng was undefeated and nobody questioned his supremacy, but he still decided to spend almost all his time in seclusion inventing Taiji Fist and Sword. People who love martial arts just believe there is always a way to better your martial arts, and no reason to stop just because you are the best.

And besides, I highly doubt that Dugu didn't own everybody with the HIS just like YG almost did. Yet he decided to abandon it and work on Wooden Sword too. I think that's proof enough that he would abandon Dugu 9 Jian even if he was undefeated just for the sake of pursuing perfection.

[PJ]

OK, I'll buy your reasoning. However, I still think you're trying too hard to make SPW Dugu Qiubai backwards compatible with ROCH Dugu Qiubai.

[tape]

I guess I just don't see the reason for classifying them as SPW DGQB and ROCH DGQB when their history and name is the same (undefeated mainly, and the focus on being a sword demon). Having two different types of martial arts seems insufficient to launch into a parallel universe or group of people theory when the simplest answer is just that he invented two different sword styles. He probably didn't reach his status by being content with one way of the sword.

[CancerLuna]

I agree with tape. It seems more of a stretch to assume they are different persons.

[PJ]

and the focus on being a sword demon

Actually, as far as I can remember, Dugu Qiubai was never referred to as Demonic Swordsman in SPW, while he was referred to as such many times in ROCH.

Having two different types of martial arts seems insufficient to launch into a parallel universe or group of people theory when the simplest answer is just that he invented two different sword styles. He probably didn't reach his status by being content with one way of the sword.

No, the simplest and practical answer is JY changed his mind.

[PJ]

I agree with tape. It seems more of a stretch to assume they are different persons.

More like two versions of the same person.

[Dirt]

The Condor Trilogies were historical wuxia while XAJH is a fantasy wuxia.

Historically wuxia speaking, Yue Buqun should have been studying Xiantian Gong instead of Zixia Shengong.