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Thread: Was Chow Chi Yerk a better 9 Yum White Bones claw practitioner than Mui Chiu Fung?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Was Chow Chi Yerk a better 9 Yum White Bones claw practitioner than Mui Chiu Fung?

    Mui Chiu Fung was the most proficient user of 9 Yum White Bone Claws in LOCH. After the death of her husband, nobody was able to use this skill better than she could (although the only other user was Yeung Hong). Her proficiency in this skill was good enough to terrorize the likes of Au Yeung Hak, the Gong Nam 7 Freaks, and the *individual* Cheun Jen 7 Disciples, but posed no threat at all to Greats-level fighters.

    After Chow Chi Yerk learned the 9 Yum White Bone Claws in HSDS, she too was not really a match for any Greats-level fighter, but seemed able to stymie the sub-Greats of her era (e.g. the Mo Dong Heroes, Ming Cult Guardian Lords, etc.) in a way that Mui Chiu Fung could not do so decisively. Would you say that Chow Chi Yerk's mastery of 9 Yum White Bone Claws surpassed that of Mui Chiu Fung?

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Possibly. After all, ZZR learned the abridged 9yin claws which was written by Huang Rong and Guo Jing, who had access to the complete 9yin. That shortcut version, while not as powerful as the real thing, would have incorporate balanced portions of the external and internal arts, while MCF only had the external art as a guide. She did have many more years to practise, but had no guidance, and absolutely no internal art cultivation to go with the external skill.

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    I think that this is a pretty complicated question. While Mei Chaofeng is working off an incomplete version of the Nine Claws, she had almost two decades to perfect the art. She also had a strong foundation in martial arts from Huang Yaoshi.

    Zhou Zhirou was working from a complete version of the Nine Claws, but she had only a few months to master it. While she managed to win almost all of her one-on-one fights using this skill, I'm not convinced that she fully mastered it. If she had done so before her wedding, Zhao Min would have probably died that very day.

    At the Lion-Slaying Assembly, Zhou Zhirou won mostly by using the superiority of her moveset and her opponents' unfamiliarity with it. Conversely, against foes who could draw out the fight, or who were familiar with the Nine Claws, Zhou Zhirou's inexperience and lack of a strong foundation (both of moves and internal energy) means that she would be certain to lose. The fight against the Yellow Lady illustrates these limitationsquite clearly.

    If it were a one-vs-one between Mei Chaofeng and Zhou Zhirou, I'd say that Zhou Zhirou would be closer to mastering the Nine Claws on a technical level and have the early upper hand. But Mei Chaofeng would eventually win out as she would have some of the same strengths the Yellow Lady exhibited. All she has to do is draw the fight out until Zhou Zhirou's advantages evaporate. If Zhou Zhirou had a couple of years to fully master the Nine Claws (and the other Nine Yin skills), then she would be decisively better than Mei Chaofeng.

    Thought experiment: I think it's pretty obvious that Mei Chaofeng would fare better against the Yellow Lady by falling back to her non-Nine Yin moves if nothing else. But does anyone think that it would make much difference?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    Possibly. After all, ZZR learned the abridged 9yin claws which was written by Huang Rong and Guo Jing, who had access to the complete 9yin. That shortcut version, while not as powerful as the real thing, would have incorporate balanced portions of the external and internal arts, while MCF only had the external art as a guide. She did have many more years to practise, but had no guidance, and absolutely no internal art cultivation to go with the external skill.
    Mei was able to gain a small bit of the Quanzhen inner strength cultivation methods through Ma Yu. He said that she would benefit quite a bit from his clarification.

    The other thing is that Mei is able to beat Quanzhen elders one on one in a straight up fight. Qiu Chuji might give her trouble, but she is more or less better or equal to the rest. Zhou is supposed to be much less powerful in terms of real martial arts than a Wudang hero. I think the two are roughly equal, so the fact that Mei is better than (most of) them while ZZR is much worse, I'd have to say Mei is stronger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    Zhou Zhirou was working from a complete version of the Nine Claws, but she had only a few months to master it. While she managed to win almost all of her one-on-one fights using this skill, I'm not convinced that she fully mastered it. If she had done so before her wedding, Zhao Min would have probably died that very day.
    Justice would be served.

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    I'd say MXF is a better practitioner. She's had decades to study it over and over.

    While ZZR learned a more wholistic version of it. She didn't really understand it, as evident by her being at a loss when it is used against her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ToastedRossi View Post
    Thought experiment: I think it's pretty obvious that Mei Chaofeng would fare better against the Yellow Lady by falling back to her non-Nine Yin moves if nothing else. But does anyone think that it would make much difference?
    Probably not. As a descendant of Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl, Lady Yeung of the Yellow Robes probably had much more in her arsenal than just 9 Yum Divine Claws.

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    I'd also point out that while Chow Chi Yerk was able to use the 9 Yum White Bone Claws to at least surprise and throw off opponents who were actually superior to her, Mui Chiu Fung was never able to use her claws to put anyone above her level at even a momentary disadvantage.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    I always got the impression that people like Huang Yaoshi, Hong 7 Gong or even Qiu Qianren would be able to blow Mei Chaofeng away with just a sneeze, while it looked like Zhang Wuji would take a bit of effort to beat Zhou Zhiruo (and Real Man Zhang would at least be forced to concentrate). That's probably due to the element of surprise, though, but it does make Zhou Zhiruo look nearer than Mei Chaofeng when viewed from the lofty perch of a great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I'd also point out that while Chow Chi Yerk was able to use the 9 Yum White Bone Claws to at least surprise and throw off opponents who were actually superior to her, Mui Chiu Fung was never able to use her claws to put anyone above her level at even a momentary disadvantage.
    What Mei Chaofeng seemed to get from the Nine Claws was to be able to dominate opponents weaker than she was. If she understood the martial art to the extent that Zhou Zhirou did, then she would probably be able to fare much better against superior opponents. Against the Wudang champions, Yin Liting could only defend against Zhou Zhirou's whip and Yu Lianzhou could only kill her at the cost of his own life. Technically, their skill level is quite a bit higher, but where it counts, Zhou Zhirou at least their equal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banh Mi View Post
    I'd say MXF is a better practitioner. She's had decades to study it over and over.

    While ZZR learned a more wholistic version of it. She didn't really understand it, as evident by her being at a loss when it is used against her.
    That's not completely fair - the Yellow Lady was the absolute worst opponent Zhou Zhirou could have drawn. There's little dishonor in losing to the deus ex machina character, and I doubt that Mei Chaofeng could have been any more successful. Thinking about it, the Yellow Lady using the Nine Claws is probably the strongest showing of that skill actually depicted in a novel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Liew View Post
    I always got the impression that people like Huang Yaoshi, Hong 7 Gong or even Qiu Qianren would be able to blow Mei Chaofeng away with just a sneeze, while it looked like Zhang Wuji would take a bit of effort to beat Zhou Zhiruo (and Real Man Zhang would at least be forced to concentrate). That's probably due to the element of surprise, though, but it does make Zhou Zhiruo look nearer than Mei Chaofeng when viewed from the lofty perch of a great.
    Zhang Wuji's relative inexperience may play a factor as well. He didn't have too much trouble figuring out how to counter Song Qingshu's Nine Claws - maybe it's an artifact of his weakness vs. women at play .

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