The Romance of the Condor Heroes 《神雕侠侣》 - Chen Xiao, Michelle Chen

[wuxiarocks]

Actually two: HSDS '09, Legend of the Condor Heroes (ROCH anime). We all know who Zhang JiZhong is...

I believe member Li Mochou was referring to Wuxia that's more recent, or ones not seen by all. HSDS 09 is old. I think almost everyone here has seen it. ROCH anime don't count. And even that is old.

Next, JY's wuxia is/are essentially comics (or its equivalent). They were written mostly to entertain. If JY had been a cartoonist, all of his works would have been serialized as illustrations instead.

No. They are novels. And all form of fiction is written to entertain. "IF" JY had been a cartoonist, but he's not, so your point is rather strange. Like your comparison of the two mediums.

Lastly, I want to see a Japanese live action of any of JY's work so badly, but they're not so popular in Japan, which is why they'll continue to make knock offs of Sun Wukong (Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Inuyasha etc). I really like what they did to Monkey Magic 2007. I really could see financial success for a trilogy-type Jin Yong movie(s) like the live action Kenshin movies in Japan, one set of stories like HSDS but broken into 3 movies.

Personally I think Japanese live adaptations are not that great. Good budget? Sure. Good filming? Sure. But they seem to lack substance. The Kenshin trilogy was mostly style over substance. It got almost everything from the source material, except its soul. They were just hitting check-points.

I rather not see any JY wuxia series get that treatment.

[luna_lucid]

I really could see financial success for a trilogy-type Jin Yong movie(s) like the live action Kenshin movies in Japan, one set of stories like HSDS but broken into 3 movies.

Have you read this?
http://www.jaynestars.com/movies/gordon-chan-to-remake-legend-of-the-condor-heroes/

I'm a fan of Rurouni Kenshin manga and I really love the action movies. They really caught the essence of the stories and characters, and transformed the awesome world of Rurouni Kenshin story into the big screen.

Then again, I watched the Four and noticed the fantastical elements in it and I dont like it. Then again, I've never known how the original story should be. If they really going to remake LOCH into a trilogy on to the big screen, I hope theycan do it well since the story is far more complex than Kenshin, otherwise they'll ruin a great classic story. One this is I'm sure about : if this turns out to be a great success, then they'll continue with ROCH and HSDS

[zagakev]

Anyways, I skipped most of it, the key things that stood out too me:

YLX actually fights back against GF and actually can handle her temper tantrum; I liked how the they changed the scene to the end where GF volunteerily gets down on her knees to beg for YG's help instead of YG telling her too.

What annoyed me is they had to include the whole segment about who she actually loves because WASNT it already settled she loved YLX; I thought it was cute how she ran to YLX screaming and crying hysterically though

I felt kind of bad for one of the brother, little wu was it? Because he loved WYP and was okay with her settling for him after being rejected by yet another guy. I like how this series elaborated on everyone developing romance instead of "?? Huh how did they end up together? That was unexpected"

GSLE death scene: I wish we just got a little bit more emotion from everyone? I felt like her death didn't make as much as an impact in that scene because it switched to everyone fighting so quickly.

Since YZ was changing things I wished he had at least made a happy ending for CY and LWS.

Anyways! I enjoyed lurking for the most part due to being busy and all the discussion we engaged in. Hope to see many of you around when YZ remakes HSDS!



I was thinking that. Shouldn't he have been a whole lot older looking than everyone else.

YZ is making an adaptation of HSDS? Oh god. I hope he learns some of the mistakes he did from this and Swordsmen...Spend more time finding people that fit the persona and role of the characters. I didn't mind that he deviated a lot from the plot- probably because the previous adaption is still fresh in everyone's mind so if he did an accurate remake it might not get attention. However that said, I think that he went about it slightly wrong in this drama. He did so much side stories that it almost muddled the main plot of the show. I hope he can find a balance by introducing interesting deviation while not ruining the core aspects of Jin Yong works...

[Eccentric One]

Really, you don't sense the romantic tension between LMC and YG? Besides, it's the secret romantic thought that counts...

If you have only watched 2.5 episodes how the fook did you even sense the tension between LMC and YG? Stop being a clown and talk nonsense. Comparing this adaptation with comics or even western sci fi is really absurd. FYI ROCH is a novel, it was never a comic

[hirobo2]

Have you read this?
http://www.jaynestars.com/movies/gor...condor-heroes/

I'm a fan of Rurouni Kenshin manga and I really love the action movies. They really caught the essence of the stories and characters, and transformed the awesome world of Rurouni Kenshin story into the big screen.

Then again, I watched the Four and noticed the fantastical elements in it and I dont like it. Then again, I've never known how the original story should be. If they really going to remake LOCH into a trilogy on to the big screen, I hope theycan do it well since the story is far more complex than Kenshin, otherwise they'll ruin a great classic story. One this is I'm sure about : if this turns out to be a great success, then they'll continue with ROCH and HSDS

Well, the LOCH movies seem like something to be excited about after all. And I'm hoping/thinking they will be since LOCH movies will be a novelty to most people. We've had an HSDS movie starring Jet Li. I've always wondered what a ROCH movie will be like...

[suetkei]

Why are some of you guys trying to review this drama when you claim to only watch 2 episodes .....

i can't stop laughing at this comment but in my defense I watched 90% of the drama

[luna_lucid]

We've had an HSDS movie starring Jet Li. I've always wondered what a ROCH movie will be like...

Ah, the one with Jet Li. I like the fights and Zhao Min, but overall, I don't really like it. I hope LOCH movies will be much better than that, perhaps each as a duration of around 2 hours like LOTR, so that the details can be exposed and not just the fighting. Regarding ROCH, If I'm not mistaken, there should be an ROCH movie on the 70s/80s which was starred by Leslie Cheung(?? plz CMIIW), but I've never watched it.

[j2j2j2]

I've only watched 4 episodes so far, but I do have to admit it's interesting they stated with Li Mo Chou's background.

Also, I do have to say that the editing so far is a lot smoother than ZJZ's productions. This is still a Mainland production, so SAPPRFT will still demand some edits, but so far the flow actually works.

I guess we'll see how this series progresses.

[hirobo2]

YZ is making an adaptation of HSDS? Oh god. I hope he learns some of the mistakes he did from this and Swordsmen...Spend more time finding people that fit the persona and role of the characters. I didn't mind that he deviated a lot from the plot- probably because the previous adaption is still fresh in everyone's mind so if he did an accurate remake it might not get attention. However that said, I think that he went about it slightly wrong in this drama. He did so much side stories that it almost muddled the main plot of the show. I hope he can find a balance by introducing interesting deviation while not ruining the core aspects of Jin Yong works...

ZJZ is Pappa Bear. YZ is Mamma Bear. One stuck too closely to the source, the other one couldn't care less how far the adaptation deviated from it. But, don't worry, Little Bear will come along and make it right again. Little Bear will take the not-too-hot not-too-cold approach... But still, we appreciate Pappa Bear for hooking us to the very end with very good cinematography, but very cheesy CGI in HSDS '09, and Mamma Bear for giving us a cool DFBB/Joe Chen reinterpretation in Swordsman '13.

Meanwhile, let us continue to enjoy the Mamma Bear version of HSDS in the near future...

[hirobo2]

Ah, the one with Jet Li. I like the fights and Zhao Min, but overall, I don't really like it. I hope LOCH movies will be much better than that, perhaps each as a duration of around 2 hours like LOTR, so that the details can be exposed and not just the fighting. Regarding ROCH, If I'm not mistaken, there should be an ROCH movie on the 70s/80s which was starred by Leslie Cheung(?? plz CMIIW), but I've never watched it.

I've watched Kung Fu Cult Master a long time ago and was impressed then. But when I compare the fight with Zhao Min, which IMHO is the highlight of both the movie and the show, to HSDS '09, KFCM seems rather dated now.

Anyways, it's good that someone has adapted ROCH earlier. My fear was that it's too long/too complex to be made into movies...

[j2j2j2]

ZJZ is Pappa Bear. YZ is Mamma Bear. One stuck too closely to the source, the other one couldn't care less how far the adaptation deviated from it. But, don't worry, Little Bear will come along and make it right again. Little Bear will take the not-too-hot not-too-cold approach... But still, we appreciate Pappa Bear for hooking us to the very end with very good cinematography, but very cheesy CGI in HSDS '09, and Mamma Bear for giving us a cool DFBB/Joe Chen reinterpretation in Swordsman '13.

Meanwhile, let us continue to enjoy the Mamma Bear version of HSDS in the near future...

I also don't mind the changes, but only as long as they adhere to the spirit of the novels. That's why the 1983 Legend of Condor Heroes had a lot of scenes not in the book, but it was still good because it felt true.

I'm only on episode 10 now and so far I feel YZ has kept to the spirit (unlike Swordsman, which was just horrible).

I'll also add that while Michelle isn't as bad as I thought she would be for XLN. If I had to rank from best to worst, it would be Carmen, Idy, Michelle, and then Crystal (and I don't consider the Singapore version to exist at all )

[hirobo2]

I also don't mind the changes, but only as long as they adhere to the spirit of the novels. That's why the 1983 Legend of Condor Heroes had a lot of scenes not in the book, but it was still good because it felt true.

I'm only on episode 10 now and so far I feel YZ has kept to the spirit (unlike Swordsman, which was just horrible).

I'll also add that while Michelle isn't as bad as I thought she would be for XLN. If I had to rank from best to worst, it would be Carmen, Idy, Michelle, and then Crystal (and I don't consider the Singapore version to exist at all )

Hmm, maybe ROCH '14 is worth watching after all when I find an HD non-YT version... If there is one worst adaptation of all of Jin Yong's work that I cannot absolutely stand, it's ROCH 2006!

[j2j2j2]

^ Yeah, ROCH 2006 is really really bad. Though I like Huang Xiaoming, even he couldn't save the series. Also the editing caused scenes to jump all over the place. The only plus for that series is how amazing the sets looked.

I'm on Episode 23 now and overall it's an acceptable adaptation. Not as good as '83 or '95 version but I guess either Yu Zheng learned a lot from the feedback of Swordsman or there was someone else guiding it as well!

On another note, did any one else notice that Michelle seems to slouch a lot? Is it because of the harness she's wearing for the fight scenes or does she just naturally do that?

[hirobo2]

^ Yeah, ROCH 2006 is really really bad. Though I like Huang Xiaoming, even he couldn't save the series. Also the editing caused scenes to jump all over the place. The only plus for that series is how amazing the sets looked.

I'm on Episode 23 now and overall it's an acceptable adaptation. Not as good as '83 or '95 version but I guess either Yu Zheng learned a lot from the feedback of Swordsman or there was someone else guiding it as well!

On another note, did any one else notice that Michelle seems to slouch a lot? Is it because of the harness she's wearing for the fight scenes or does she just naturally do that?

One thing I don't like about YZ productions is the actors/actresses have this plastic-ky look (b/c of photoshopping). They look pleasing, but not beautiful. I thought the girls in HSDS '09 looked incredibly hot b/c the directors didn't mess with Photoshop and let their own natural beauties shine thru. Not barring old TVB productions (ie. Carmen, Idy), I've yet to seen a modern wuxia maiden hotter than Liu ShiShi/Yellow Dress Maiden in HSDS '09 (though the yellow tone applied to her in the ending song made her look kind of icky). Joe Chen/DFBB would have looked so much better with less photoshopping also. I especially hated the photoshopping done to her face when she disguises as a guy.

Now, the photoshopping I'm talking about is the artificial removal of pores/skin blemishes, skin whitening, and possibly altering bone/jaw angles. Obviously, they kept the mole in the center of Chen Xiao's neck just to trick the eyes into thinking otherwise...

[Verdiani]

Why are some of you guys trying to review this drama when you claim to only watch 2 episodes .....

HAHHAHA that's me right there...but then I did made it to ep 16 or more though. I don't know how some of you manage to go further though. All I wanna do here is just complain and complain, since the discussion is getting so entertaining!!! But if you think about it, there are so so so many things to critique about 1-2 episodes of Yu Zheng's dramas, that's WAYYY too amazing! Years ago, his dramas were not this bad. If we don't like the drama, it's not that we should just shut up, we want to see improvements so we're complaining so we hope not to see the same mistakes again. Swordsman was a disappointment and now it is Condor Heroes, if we keep quiet then what will the next drama be like?

Nobody is hating on the actors and they did great of course, but we just think a lot of people are being miscast and the storyline do not make much sense (even if you pretend that it wasn't a remake of ROCH but another drama of its own), and also the idea of making each and every single person having their own side story sucks. Those side stories and flash backs are too short, but making them any longer will bored and anger so many people, but with them being that short too, they are done so crappily.
Also, it sucks whenever there is a big crowd in the market. When Xiao Long Nu suddenly abandoned Guo'er's necklace in public, the random people mocking her was exaggerating and unrealistic that it was so annoying. Also, when Yan Rong was asking people randomly in the street that why can't she be with her teacher, the people mocked her as if they know what was going on already and started fighting her unrealistically too, shouldn't they be confused or maybe ask her nicely what was going on or something????? I thought Yan Rong was going to be great but she turns out to look like some Cat Demons from some Liao Zhai dramas. Lord!


I know many people are making comparisons because this story is too famous, especially when there is almost a remake every 5-6 years (and with all of them with at least a close storyline to each other). But I guess I can be care less about it, I still REALLY REALLY REALLY love that silly 1993 Eagle Shooting Heroes movie where everything is messed up and hilarious, that was no problem, even with all that changes to the storyline and characters! I see that, as long as the story is good in its own way then people wouldn't complain as much.

[hirobo2]

I finally found an HD version to download:

http://idfl.me/showthread.php?t=141593

These guys are the best! But, quality may be questionable since the file sizes are about half of that of HD Swordsman also on the same forum (they're around 1GB/episode)... Anyways, if there exists a better quality version (more bitrate), I'm sure someone will come along and post in that thread like they posted in the Swordsman thread months after they made the first SD version available...

(Btw, password to register is "Jakarta" the capital of Indonesia. I had to use Google to translate/look it up. Should save people some time/trouble).

Edit: My bad, this is just the SD first release version. Will have to wait for uploader to upload in HD...

[Liljanger]

Finally finished the last episode and I have to say that it was way better than Swordsman.

Just wondering, when YG went over to the platform to rescue Guo Xiang, why didn't XLN went to help him? It would have been much easier and quicker for the two of them to combine strength and finish of Jinlun.

[luna_lucid]

Just wondering, when YG went over to the platform to rescue Guo Xiang, why didn't XLN went to help him? It would have been much easier and quicker for the two of them to combine strength and finish of Jinlun.

Actually it is stated in the novel, unfortunately there's no ROCH adaptation that described this clearly. In the novel, Jinlun burned the tower (along with GX). YG came to rescued GX, but Jinlun confronted him. They both fought on the burning tower, with GX was still being tied, while being watched by Mongolian and Han armies. XLN was going to help, but the tower was already engulfed in fire, so nobody could approach them. GJ did try to help by sending YG a sword using a bow, but YG was still losing.

[Whatisthis]

Actually it is stated in the novel, unfortunately there's no ROCH adaptation that described this clearly. In the novel, Jinlun burned the tower (along with GX). YG came to rescued GX, but Jinlun confronted him. They both fought on the burning tower, with GX was still being tied, while being watched by Mongolian and Han armies. XLN was going to help, but the tower was already engulfed in fire, so nobody could approach them. GJ did try to help by sending YG a sword using a bow, but YG was still losing.

Adding to this, Xiao Longnu and the Divine Eagle was busy holding back the archers from shooting at Guo Xiang. The show did not really emphasize this, but the Mongolian army was massive. Everybody was doing their best to fend the Mongolian soldiers even though they were outnumbered. YZ should have hired the people that did the battle scenes in Three Kingdoms 2010 to do the battle at Xiangyang. If anybody can depict the ROTCH final battle scene as described in the novel, it's those guys.

[hirobo2]

Adding to this, Xiao Longnu and the Divine Eagle was busy holding back the archers from shooting at Guo Xiang. The show did not really emphasize this, but the Mongolian army was massive. Everybody was doing their best to fend the Mongolian soldiers even though they were outnumbered. YZ should have hired the people that did the battle scenes in Three Kingdoms 2010 to do the battle at Xiangyang. If anybody can depict the ROTCH final battle scene as described in the novel, it's those guys.

I didn't enjoy the fight scenes very much in the first 3 episodes. Guo Jing standing on top of a bamboo tree didn't impress me as much as Yellow Dress Maiden playing the zither also on top of a bamboo tree in HSDS '09. It was the way the camera angle was presented. I felt the ROCH directors had a pile of money to throw at CGI artists but had zero directing talent...