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Thread: Was Zhang Wu Ji ALOT stronger than Zhou Zi Ruo?

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    Default Was Zhang Wu Ji ALOT stronger than Zhou Zi Ruo?

    Hi guys, I just wanted some expert opinions concerning whether ZWJ is actually a greats level. From the novel, Zhang Wu Ji was definitely held back when fighting against ZZR. However he did actually have alot of trouble right, although he probably would've won if he tried. Its quite clear that ZZR was definitely weaker the mui chao feng. She had decades to practice while Zhou Zi Rou only had a month to practice the same skills in Nine Ying. However the greats in LOCH was so much stronger than MCF, that they can basically toy with her without any trouble correct? She basically got one-shotted by Ou Yang Feng and a Guo Jing with 15 palms was better than her, but got destroyed by HYS when he came in.

    By theory, ZWJ was considered to be equal to ROCH greats. Should he not be SO MUCH stronger than ZZR, that even though he held back, it shouldn't be a slight challenge at all. It should be how HYS can destroy Guo Jing when he only had 15 palms. However the fight did not show the LARGE difference between them that it should have been. The difference between MCF and LOCH was LARGE. Given MCY>ZZR and ZWJ= ROCH, ZWJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ZZR. Would this mean ZWJ would not have been close to a greats level? Can you guys please discuss this? Thanks

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    ZWJ definitely was MUCH stronger than Zhou Ziruo; when he fought with the three elders of Shaolin, Zhou Zirou couldn't get near them; her attacks all bounced off to no effect, due to the density of the power flowing through that area!

    ZWJ simply has a history of A) Underperforming against people with weird techniques, and B) Not being a very good 'fighter' in general, despite his strong internal energy base and list of techniques. Add on the fact that he wasn't even trying, and well....
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

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    Chow Chi Yerk's actual martial arts level, even at her peak towards the end of HSDS, was actually around (if not slightly below) that of the stronger Mo Dong Heroes. She was never as powerful as she seemed, even though the unfamiliar and strange 9 Yum White Bone Claws made her appear stronger than she actually was.

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    ZZR is much less powerful than Wuji, it's just he thought she was stronger than she was and sent forth a ton of power, and when he realized she was very weak, he had to use a ton of power to retract it, along with taking the full force of his own hit.

    The only thing I would contend is her "true" martial arts level. Her techniques are very strange and lethal, which was the strength of it. I'd definitely place her above the Wudang heroes even if she has weaker inner power and has less overall martial arts knowledge, because she can do better in a fight than they can in many circumstances. Like Linghu Chong and pre-16 years Yang Guo, their "true" martial arts levels are not as high as many people, but if they can defeat stronger opponents, then I'd say they are at a higher level.

    When Qingshu fought the Beggar Clan elders and Yu Lianzhou, they were aware of his claw techniques and still weren't able to defend against it. It was only because he fell into the trap of repeating the same moves because he only learned it for a few months. Give him a few more variations and he'd be a very good fighter.

    HSDS is an inner power-centric novel, and her weak inner power was her downfall. If this took place in SPW perhaps she would find a way to victory somehow...afterall inner-powerless Linghu Chong should be deflected from fights just as she was, but that doesn't happen.
    Last edited by tape; 11-24-13 at 06:47 PM.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post

    The only thing I would contend is her "true" martial arts level. Her techniques are very strange and lethal, which was the strength of it. I'd definitely place her above the Wudang heroes even if she has weaker inner power and has less overall martial arts knowledge, because she can do better in a fight than they can in many circumstances. Like Linghu Chong and pre-16 years Yang Guo, their "true" martial arts levels are not as high as many people, but if they can defeat stronger opponents, then I'd say they are at a higher level.
    Chow Chi Yerk's "advantage," such as it was, was dependent entirely upon the element of surprise. Take away the surprise and her advantage rapidly diminishes. The more experienced warriors could likely weather her early assault until they figure out what she's doing.

    Essentially, I would say Chow Chi Yerk was at about the same level as her predecessor at 9 Yum White Bone Claws expertise: Mui Chiu Fung.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Chow Chi Yerk's "advantage," such as it was, was dependent entirely upon the element of surprise. Take away the surprise and her advantage rapidly diminishes. The more experienced warriors could likely weather her early assault until they figure out what she's doing.

    Essentially, I would say Chow Chi Yerk was at about the same level as her predecessor at 9 Yum White Bone Claws expertise: Mui Chiu Fung.
    I think the element of surprise is something that should be factored into your martial arts level. She uses her whip techniques generally, and strikes out with her claw techniques in a vicious and lethal way that people generally can't see very well -- at the time it just so happened it was in front of thousands of people. Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng are known to conserve their "best" martial arts in Dog Beating Stick and Serpent Fists because the element of surprise is something that is very real. It doesn't mean the Dog Beating Stick is only good if you catch them off guard, it's just that all technique-reliant skills are much less powerful once people study and analyze your weaknesses.

    Song Qingshu killed 3(?) high level fighters, ZZR would have killed Yin Liting, and only after observing and analyzing their techniques throughout was Yu Lianzhou able to commit to a kamikaze attack that would have killed them both. When Yu Lianzhou fought Song Qingshu, he knew about his claw attacks and was unable to defeat him for very long until he caught him using the exact same move he used before. Needless to say ZZR has mastered the claws at a higher level and has many more variations and might easily have found a way to kill him. Even if you *know* the other person is reliant on lethal and secretive techniques, unless you know the exact variation, you still can't defeat them.
    Last edited by tape; 11-24-13 at 11:17 PM.

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    For an example of the difference between Zhou Zhiruo's and Zhang Wuji's martial arts level, see the example of ZZR attacking Zhao Min. After ZZR chilled ZM with yin energy, ZWJ warmed her using 9 yang energy. At that point, ZZR attacked the defenceless ZM's head with 9 yin claws. Defenceless, that is, but for the 9 yang energy being channelled into ZM. In that situation, it was basically a scaled down body of ZWJ's 9 yang energy versus ZZR's 9 yin claws. ZM's head was scratched. ZZR's fingers broke.

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    of cos.... why would anyone think otherwise.

    the only fight zhang wu ji give his all is his fight against his 3 monks.

    he always have a soft spot for woman..

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    Zhang Wu Ji is definitely stronger than Zhou ZhiRuo and in fact the most powerful character in Jin Yong Universe with only Damou or Dugu to rival with. However, Jin yong design ZWJ to be someone like a shaolin monk, heart of good and carefree. Zhou zhiruo has some relationship with ZWJ and ZWJ will definitely not hurt her even at the end of novel, same for like the incident that happen at GuangMingDing from the start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    I think the element of surprise is something that should be factored into your martial arts level. She uses her whip techniques generally, and strikes out with her claw techniques in a vicious and lethal way that people generally can't see very well -- at the time it just so happened it was in front of thousands of people. Hong Qigong and Ouyang Feng are known to conserve their "best" martial arts in Dog Beating Stick and Serpent Fists because the element of surprise is something that is very real. It doesn't mean the Dog Beating Stick is only good if you catch them off guard, it's just that all technique-reliant skills are much less powerful once people study and analyze your weaknesses.

    Song Qingshu killed 3(?) high level fighters, ZZR would have killed Yin Liting, and only after observing and analyzing their techniques throughout was Yu Lianzhou able to commit to a kamikaze attack that would have killed them both. When Yu Lianzhou fought Song Qingshu, he knew about his claw attacks and was unable to defeat him for very long until he caught him using the exact same move he used before. Needless to say ZZR has mastered the claws at a higher level and has many more variations and might easily have found a way to kill him. Even if you *know* the other person is reliant on lethal and secretive techniques, unless you know the exact variation, you still can't defeat them.
    Surprise only helps you once, and it's rarely effective against far superior opponents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Surprise only helps you once, and it's rarely effective against far superior opponents.
    A true martial arts expert like Zhang Sanfeng might have easily defeated them, but Zhuo Ziruo would in fact easily defeat everyone under Du monk level due to nobody understanding martial arts on a high enough level to counter her weird moves.

    Even after everyone watched her fight multiple times, people like Fan Yao (acclaimed for his vast martial knowledge) were astounded by her moves. And still he needed Wuji's advice to fight her because they were so brilliant.

    The HSDS version of Bone Claws was pretty much Heavy Iron Sword Lite -- it magnified combat skill despite inner power and actual martial arts knowledge being very low. I see it more as an amplification rather than just "surprise" when people who have seen exactly how it works still can't counter your skill.
    Last edited by tape; 01-19-17 at 02:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuMing DaXia View Post
    Zhang Wu Ji is definitely stronger than Zhou ZhiRuo and in fact the most powerful character in Jin Yong Universe with only Damou or Dugu to rival with. However, Jin yong design ZWJ to be someone like a shaolin monk, heart of good and carefree. Zhou zhiruo has some relationship with ZWJ and ZWJ will definitely not hurt her even at the end of novel, same for like the incident that happen at GuangMingDing from the start.
    Guo Jing/Yang Guo would kicks Wuji *** within 300 strokes🤓🤓🤓🤓

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    I think that's because Nine Yin was actually created to beat Ming Sect technique. And unfortunately Zhang Wuji main ace is the strongest Ming Sect technique.

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    YTTLJ Chapter 38

    It is stated that ZWJ pulled back his own strength and ZZR take this moment to attack him sneakingly

    https://foxswuxia.wordpress.com/cond...lj-chapter-38/

    As these two people’s three palms struck each other, Zhang Wuji suddenly felt that Zhou Zhiruo’s palms were void of any strength. Zhang Wuji was stunned. “Aiyo, not good!” he thought, “After fighting ferociously with Liu Shu [sixth uncle] for more than 200 stances, she is like a lamp which oil has dried up. If I continued sending out my strength, she would certainly die on the spot.” In desperation, he hastily pulled back his strength.....


    The fact that Zhang Wuji was injured by his own pulled-back strength was known to him and Zhou Zhiruo only. Others believed that Zhou Zhiruo’s power was so strange that Zhang Wuji was not her match. The spectators only saw that Zhou Zhiruo did not continue her claw and thus they believed that she spared Zhang Wuji’s life. As a young woman, she successfully defeated Yin Liting, Yu Lianzhou and Zhang Wuji; three prominent martial art masters of this age. Everybody believed that her martial art was simply too strange; totally beyond anybody’s comprehension.

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    Quote Originally Posted by St3v3 View Post
    YTTLJ Chapter 38

    It is stated that ZWJ pulled back his own strength and ZZR take this moment to attack him sneakingly

    https://foxswuxia.wordpress.com/cond...lj-chapter-38/

    As these two people’s three palms struck each other, Zhang Wuji suddenly felt that Zhou Zhiruo’s palms were void of any strength. Zhang Wuji was stunned. “Aiyo, not good!” he thought, “After fighting ferociously with Liu Shu [sixth uncle] for more than 200 stances, she is like a lamp which oil has dried up. If I continued sending out my strength, she would certainly die on the spot.” In desperation, he hastily pulled back his strength.....


    The fact that Zhang Wuji was injured by his own pulled-back strength was known to him and Zhou Zhiruo only. Others believed that Zhou Zhiruo’s power was so strange that Zhang Wuji was not her match. The spectators only saw that Zhou Zhiruo did not continue her claw and thus they believed that she spared Zhang Wuji’s life. As a young woman, she successfully defeated Yin Liting, Yu Lianzhou and Zhang Wuji; three prominent martial art masters of this age. Everybody believed that her martial art was simply too strange; totally beyond anybody’s comprehension.
    ZZR true skills even weaker than Wudang Heroes let alone Wuji which far exceeds Wudang Heroes..

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    My interpretation from the novel:
    1. ZZR has just training 9 Yin Bone Claws not for long time
    2. Her internals is depleting fast when using 9 Yin Bone Claws
    3. In the beginning of her training, her 9 Yin internals got erased multiple times by 9 Yang Wuji when he was trying to heal ZZR. So I assume she also assumed that she erased her existing 9 Yang Emei internals to start cultivate 9 Yin internals
    4. ZZR seems so powerful since the no one has ever saw 9 Yin Bone Claws for along 100 years, and
    5. Based on the novels, yes, ZZR cultivation is still far behind Wudang heroes. It is just the ferocity of the externals from 9 Yin Bone Claws.

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    Yeah ZZR should be around MCF level at best which according to 2nd Freaks no matter how strong MCF she is not even reach 1/10 of HYS level and since Wuji ~ HYS so logically Wuji 10x better than ZZR..

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