The Day that the Golden Wheel Monk took He-Man Pills (or WTF happened?!)

[Ken Cheng]

The Golden Wheel Monk has a notorious reputation as a battle choker: not only does he tend to lose to other Greats-level fighters, but he even chokes against fighters who are much weaker than he is.

There is one glorious exception, however:

At Passionless Valley, the Golden Wheel Monk took on East Heretic Wong Yerk See, South Emperor 1 Deng, Chow Bak Tung, and Wong Yung using Dog Beating Stick *simultaneously*, and fought pretty well for a while. Even with three Greats and a semi-Great, the Golden Wheel Monk managed to put up an excellent fight and last longer than anybody short of the Janitor Monk, Hui Juk, or Dook Goo Kau Bai (supposedly) could against multiple Greats.

So WTF happened that time?! Did the Golden Wheel Monk take He-Man Pills when he woke up that morning? In his next fight (against Yeung Gor, one-on-one), the Golden Wheel Monk was back to his usual choking, losing ways, but in that one battle, he enjoyed an inexplicable moment of pure martial arts glory.

[yangguo_]

Or perhaps YG can also take on three greats and a semi-great?

[Ken Cheng]

Or perhaps YG can also take on three greats and a semi-great?

We've already seen that he couldn't.

With full-powered Sad Palms, Yeung Gor tied East Heretic and Chow Bak Tung in separate fights.

That's fine for what it was, but it wasn't as spectacular as that one glorious moment that the Golden Wheel Monk had.

[pannonian]

Guo Jing also took on 3 Greats for a short while.

[yangguo_]

We've already seen that he couldn't.

With full-powered Sad Palms, Yeung Gor tied East Heretic and Chow Bak Tung in separate fights.

That's fine for what it was, but it wasn't as spectacular as that one glorious moment that the Golden Wheel Monk had.

Wasn't full-powered, and a friendly bout =/= combat situation.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

I haven't read the novel, so if someone could clarify if GWM did this in the book or was this in one of the adaptation s?

[Ken Cheng]

Wasn't full-powered, and a friendly bout =/= combat situation.

It was full-powered (albeit not on "kill" mode), and even in a friendly bout, if you mean to win, you go all-out. In the duel with Chow Bak Tung, for example, Yeung Gor reasoned that they both needed to dial it down because if it escalated any further, they could both end up seriously injured or dead.

[Ken Cheng]

Guo Jing also took on 3 Greats for a short while.

True, but I believe that skirmish was shorter and Gwok Jing wasn't dominating his opponents...just miraculously holding his own.

[tape]

I haven't read the novel, so if someone could clarify if GWM did this in the book or was this in one of the adaptation s?

The details are wrong, he never fought them three together. He only fought Yideng one on one and Huang Rong tried to intervene, but she was too weak to really help.

When he killed one of the eagles, Zhou Botong got angry and jumped in the fight. GWM immediately fled after exchanging maybe one stance. Huang Yaoshi then showed up and all three of them attacked at once and subdued him in one blow.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

The details are wrong, he never fought them three together. He only fought Yideng one on one and Huang Rong tried to intervene, but she was too weak to really help.

When he killed one of the eagles, Zhou Botong got angry and jumped in the fight. GWM immediately fled after exchanging maybe one stance. Huang Yaoshi then showed up and all three of them attacked at once and subdued him in one blow.

Thanks tape.
From what I've read of other threads it seems GWM 'chokes' are due to him underestimating his opponents/panicking when things go wrong.

At passionless valley he fully knew the calibre of his opponents so would have been prepared and less likely to panic, thus explaining his unusually good performance.

[yangguo_]

It was full-powered (albeit not on "kill" mode), and even in a friendly bout, if you mean to win, you go all-out. In the duel with Chow Bak Tung, for example, Yeung Gor reasoned that they both needed to dial it down because if it escalated any further, they could both end up seriously injured or dead.

If it's not kill mode it's not full powered.

[Ken Cheng]

If it's not kill mode it's not full powered.

Not if you're an elite martial artist.

Notice that in the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament, nobody left the tournament crippled or dead. Everybody walked away alive and well. All five Greats, however, wanted to win that contest. Nobody held back.

Being unable to use full power without killing intent, in fact, is a sign that one has not truly reached an elite level yet.

[yangguo_]

I'm saying in the case of YG, when he fought ZBT, he was awaiting his reunion with XLN (hence not full sadness = not full power) also same with his duel with HYS. If he had to duel HYS right when he found out the truth about the nun, I don't think HYS ZBT and YD could keep up.

[Ken Cheng]

I'm saying in the case of YG, when he fought ZBT, he was awaiting his reunion with XLN (hence not full sadness = not full power) also same with his duel with HYS. If he had to duel HYS right when he found out the truth about the nun, I don't think HYS ZBT and YD could keep up.

All those sixteen years, Yeung Gor's sadness was in full and therefore, so were his Sad Palms. The only time the power relented was *after* the reunion (and even then, he managed to get it to work 100% one more time against the Golden Wheel Monk).

What you saw against Wong Yerk See, Chow Bak Tung, and finally the Golden Wheel Monk was as good as it got; Sad Palms doesn't have an "overdrive" mode proportioned on different levels of sadness. It either works or it doesn't.

[Trien Chieu]

That's fine for what it was, but it wasn't as spectacular as that one glorious moment that the Golden Wheel Monk had.

That one glorious moment was short lived. He kidnapped a helpless girl who just saved his life right afterward. He proudly threaten to burn her alive if her father is not willing to commit suicide.

[pannonian]

That one glorious moment was short lived. He kidnapped a helpless girl who just saved his life right afterward. He proudly threaten to burn her alive if her father is not willing to commit suicide.

Have you read the novel?

[yangguo_]

All those sixteen years, Yeung Gor's sadness was in full and therefore, so were his Sad Palms. The only time the power relented was *after* the reunion (and even then, he managed to get it to work 100% one more time against the Golden Wheel Monk).

What you saw against Wong Yerk See, Chow Bak Tung, and finally the Golden Wheel Monk was as good as it got; Sad Palms doesn't have an "overdrive" mode proportioned on different levels of sadness. It either works or it doesn't.

"Whenever Yang Guo was faced with a great, powerful adversary he would use his “Melancholic
Sad Palms” to defeat his opponent. This style was linked to his emotional state, but now he was
newly reunited with Xiao Longnu and his heart was filled with bliss and happiness. There was not a
trace of melancholy or sadness any longer. He was now faced with a dangerous situation and was
using this very style. But somehow the influence of melancholy and longing was gone; every move
and every stance he made was the same as in the past but the power of it was greatly diminished."

There are different levels of sadness.

[Ken Cheng]

"Whenever Yang Guo was faced with a great, powerful adversary he would use his “Melancholic
Sad Palms” to defeat his opponent. This style was linked to his emotional state, but now he was
newly reunited with Xiao Longnu and his heart was filled with bliss and happiness. There was not a
trace of melancholy or sadness any longer. He was now faced with a dangerous situation and was
using this very style. But somehow the influence of melancholy and longing was gone; every move
and every stance he made was the same as in the past but the power of it was greatly diminished."

There are different levels of sadness.

...and we'd already seen 100% before his reunion with Little Dragon Girl.

Sad Palms isn't designed to behave like the Hulk's strength ("the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets"). It doesn't work that way. When Yeung Gor is sad, Sad Palms functions at 100% power, which puts him equal to the other Greats. When he's not sad, he can still use the Sad Palm, but it's a weak shadow of its full strength...probably good enough to beat most opponents, but at a disadvantage against the full power of another Great.

[Ren Wo Xing]

...and we'd already seen 100% before his reunion with Little Dragon Girl.

Sad Palms isn't designed to behave like the Hulk's strength ("the madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets"). It doesn't work that way. When Yeung Gor is sad, Sad Palms functions at 100% power, which puts him equal to the other Greats. When he's not sad, he can still use the Sad Palm, but it's a weak shadow of its full strength...probably good enough to beat most opponents, but at a disadvantage against the full power of another Great.

Ken, respectfully disagree. Yang Guo without using Sad Palms at full power was already winning over JLGS. With it at full power, in a life/death battle, he soundly beat JLGS. His performance was much better than the comparable performances by the other Greats in their battles with JLGS.

[yangguo_]

Ken, respectfully disagree. Yang Guo without using Sad Palms at full power was already winning over JLGS. With it at full power, in a life/death battle, he soundly beat JLGS. His performance was much better than the comparable performances by the other Greats in their battles with JLGS.

I agree with with Ren.