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Thread: Seung Gwoon Gum Hung and Darkseid

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Seung Gwoon Gum Hung and Darkseid

    I’ve mentioned in several posts this week that I sense kindred spirits in Gu Long’s villain Seung Gwoon Gum Hung from SENTIMENTAL SWORDSMAN, RUTHLESS SWORD and the DC Comics supervillain Darkseid. Both are renowned as awesome and atypical villains in their respective genres (wuxia novels and superhero comics), and I certainly find that the two are cut from the same cloth.

    Seung Gwoon Gum Hung is a unique villain in wuxia: he is not the stereotypical, moustache-twirling wuxia villain a la West Poison Au Yeung Fung, the Golden Wheel Monk, Sing Kwun, Fok Yau, Old Sabre Tyrant, etc. Unlike those other villains, whose menace is overt and sometimes even cartoonish, Seung Gwoon Gum Hung is an entirely more subtle kind of evil – the devil who isn’t so obviously a devil, but is not a hypocrite like Ngok But Kwun. Seung Gwoon Gum Hung is exactly what he represents himself to be, but what he is, is terrifying because of the way he psychologically dominates people long before he physically crushes them. Often, he does not need to physically confront his enemies to destroy them (although he easily could in most cases) because he destroys them by playing upon their own doubts and fears, causing them to emotionally and mentally collapse before they can challenge him. To him, people are just objects and tools to be exploited and dominated…everything serves the will of Seung Gwoon Gum Hung. Seung Gwoon thinks of himself as God – he is wulin and the wealth of the world.

    In this sense, he is akin to Darkseid. If you don’t read DC Comics and are unfamiliar with the character, Darkseid is the embodiment of evil in the DC Universe. He is not the Judeo-Christian devil or a mystical demon (those are separate characters in the DC Universe), but the conceptual embodiment of evil itself. He is the submission of free will and self to the will of Darkseid.

    In terms of physical power, Darkseid is among the strongest beings in the DC Universe. He is one of the very few beings in the DC Universe capable of physically dominating Superman (Superman’s powers cannot seriously hurt Darkseid; on the other hand, Darkseid’s physical powers can hurt Superman), but he very rarely confronts his enemies physically – not because he is a coward (Darkseid does not fear his enemies because he IS fear), but because there is no point to physically harming his enemies. His goal is to destroy them by proving that all that the noble ideals that they endeavor and struggle to uphold are ultimately meaningless and empty.

    Comic book fan and blogger Chris Sims makes this observation about Darkseid:

    For all his intimidating physicality, Darkseid is very rarely seen in “action.” He doesn’t punch through a wall and start trading haymakers with Superman, his actions are geared towards conditioning people to embrace and exploit their own base hatred and fear. That’s how he wins and remakes the world in his own image, by dividing humanity and spreading the evil of hate, fear and ignorance, allowing them to believe that they can justify believing that someone else is somehow less of a person.

    Unlike most villains, Darkseid’s ultimate goal doesn’t really involve killing anyone. He’s devoted not to death but to Anti-Life — described by Walter Simonson “the outside control of all living thought,” a slavery that masquerades as freedom by allowing its victims to give in to the dark side of humanity. Again: No subtlety whatsoever.

    But it’s what he does. In Forever People, it takes the form of an amusement park where the exhibits are his victims, conditioning people to ignore the suffering of their fellow man, terrifying the children who realize what’s happening while the adults become more an more jaded. In Mr. Miracle, he commissions a trap for the world’s greatest escape artist that doesn’t involve ropes, chains, or locks, but rather a building full of people who have been convinced that Mr. Miracle isn’t one of them, that he’s something other, something that isn’t a person and is therefore there to be destroyed.

    It might not be subtle, but at the same time, it’s hardly the grandstanding form of blow-up-the-world evil that comic books have a reputation of portraying. This is a villain who exploits the small selfishness that we all see, experience, and even commit on a daily basis and shows how it all adds up to towering evil, and that makes him one of the most genuinely terrifying villains in comics. Darkseid’s not real, but the evil he dabbles in is.


    Original Article: http://comicsalliance.com/ask-chris-...rbys-new-gods/

    COMICS JOURNAL writer Tim O’Neil adds these thoughts on Darkseid:


    Darkseid isn’t a tragically flawed Doctor Doom or an abstract force of nature like Galactus: rather, he is a living embodiment of a very human tendency towards obedience and power. He can be polite, even jocular, but he is never anything but totally ruthless, committed to the conquest not so much of human territory but of human hearts and minds.


    Original Article: http://mindlessones.com/2011/10/01/r...view-darkseid/

    The moment that the parallels between Darkseid and Seung Gwoon Gum Hung became manifest to me was shortly after the death of Old Man Sheun. Lee Chum Foon and Sheun Siu Hung had just rushed back from Hing Wan Manor to the site where Lee was appointed to duel Seung Gwoon Gum Hung, hoping that Old Man Sheun had not confronted Seung Gwoon Gum Hung. When Lee and Siu Hung saw the faint glow of Old Man Sheun’s pipe glowing in the distance, they breathed a sigh of relief, believing that Sheun had not encountered Seung Gwoon or had survived whatever encounter he might have had with Seung Gwoon. Their hopes were crushed, however, when they approached and saw Seung Gwoon Gum Hung, casually smoking the old man’s pipe. Seung Gwoon did not smirk, gloat, or overtly threaten Lee and Siu Hung. The way he just sat there casually smoking the old man’s pipe, seemingly oblivious to their presence, was WAY more menacing than any threat he could have made (or stereotypical villainous cackling).

    That’s EXACTLY how Darkseid intimidates and weakens the spirit of the DC Universe’s bravest, most powerful, most intelligent heroes.

    Imagine you’re Superman. You’re practically invincible. Most of your other enemies, such as Lex Luthor or Brainiac, will invent some kind of Kryptonite gun or giant robot to attack you, but you can see their threat coming and prepare for them.

    Darkseid, however, would do this:

    Superman, as Clark Kent, returns to his apartment, to find Darkseid sitting in his living room, calmly channel surfing on Clark’s TV or drinking a cup of coffee from Clark’s kitchen. Darkseid doesn’t do anything to *threaten* Superman (though Superman knows that Darkseid is one of the few beings in the universe who poses a physical threat to him). Just the fact that he can get into Superman’s life, anytime, casually, is extremely unnerving. Darkseid usually appears when the heroes’ guard is down…when they’re at home, having dinner with friends, watching a movie, etc. He just shows up, makes a few vaguely ominous remarks that carry no overt threat, and then just walks out the door and vanishes. The hero is left with the uneasy feeling that very soon, Darkseid will unleash a plot that will threaten the very existence of the universe, and the hero can only wonder what that plot is and if there is any way to stop it.

    That’s Darkseid…and that’s Seung Gwoon Gum Hung.

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    Scheming side, yes, they were quite similar. Invincibility side, while Darkseid get his *** whooped by Doomsday, no one could have really beaten Shangguan Jinhong at his full power.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortsight View Post
    Scheming side, yes, they were quite similar. Invincibility side, while Darkseid get his *** whooped by Doomsday, no one could have really beaten Shangguan Jinhong at his full power.
    Getting his *** whipped by Doomsday was one of the worst mischaracterizations of Darkseid ever (that happens when numerous authors depict the character over several decades; inevitably, someone is going to misuse the character).

    If you read Darkseid in COSMIC ODYSSEY or FINAL CRISIS, however, he's pretty much cosmic/existential Seung Gwoon Gum Hung. They're similar in the way they just coolly dominate their opponents mentally before they ever even need to consider attacking them physically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Getting his *** whipped by Doomsday was one of the worst mischaracterizations of Darkseid ever (that happens when numerous authors depict the character over several decades; inevitably, someone is going to misuse the character).

    If you read Darkseid in COSMIC ODYSSEY or FINAL CRISIS, however, he's pretty much cosmic/existential Seung Gwoon Gum Hung. They're similar in the way they just coolly dominate their opponents mentally before they ever even need to consider attacking them physically.
    Isn't Doomsday like super bad ***? I read Marvel wiki for fun when I travel

    But I guess what you mean is more akin to Li Xunhuan should never be forced to fight Sweeper Monk or something like that, since he would get trounced and it kind of destroys his character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Isn't Doomsday like super bad ***? I read Marvel wiki for fun when I travel
    Doomsday once killed Superman with his bare fists (though Superman killed him the same way too at the same time). As a sheer force of physical destruction, few beings match Doomsday.

    Doomsday, however, is purely physical. Darkseid, himself also one of the very few beings who can beat Superman to a pulp using his bare hands, rarely ever uses physical force on his enemies. Instead, he dominates them emotionally, psychologically, spiritually, and above all, existentially.

    But I guess what you mean is more akin to Li Xunhuan should never be forced to fight Sweeper Monk or something like that, since he would get trounced and it kind of destroys his character.
    Dan Jurgens, an excellent artist, but so-so writer, wrote the story SUPERMAN/DOOMSDAY: HUNTER/PREY, which featured the notorious scene of Doomsday physically beating on Darkseid. Most DC Comics fans howl at this scene as one of the most gross mischaracterizations of Darkseid ever published. First, he'd never stoop to a physical confrontation with such a beast (it'd be like Seung Gwoon Gum Hung getting into a fight with a mad dog on the street; he just wouldn't deign to do it); second, if he did, Darkseid is strong enough physically that Doomsday, even if he is eventually able to win, will be very badly hurt/die as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Getting his *** whipped by Doomsday was one of the worst mischaracterizations of Darkseid ever ...
    Indeed, but I still enjoyed that part the best as most of the time, all it took were a few punches or omega beams to bring Superman to his knees.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortsight View Post
    Indeed, but I still enjoyed that part the best as most of the time, all it took were a few punches or omega beams to bring Superman to his knees.
    I guess it was kind of like seeing Seung Gwoon Gum Hung getting mauled by a mad dog on the street.

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