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Thread: QQR surpassed 1Deng.

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    Default QQR surpassed 1Deng.

    HR noted that 1Deng was losing and was worried that 1Deng would be defeated by Golden Wheel. They had barely started fighting.

    QQR fought Golden Wheel over 1000 stances and over a night, made it back to find 1Deng, traveled to find Yinggu before dying.

    I don't believe in the old age stamina thing because logically, with time, you can cultivate more inner energy and that should provide the fighter with more stamina. There is no evidence that suggest older fighters are at a disadvantage.

    Also, I don't know how far apart the ages of QQR and 1Deng are.

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    Quote from another thread:

    "...another enemy got stabbed in the shoulder and had to drop his iron staff....
    Yue Buqun had plenty of inner strength...the longer the fight lasted, the more energetic he appeared to be."

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    Any thoughts about this crazy idea?

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    I think it's due YD fighting style which not suit to fight with someone like JLFW since YD not good in hand to hand combat that why he only rely on Yiyang Zhi to fight JLFW from distance but too bad his old age couldn't keep up with it also I think during his fight against QQR JLFW not yet fully mastering his 10th Dragon/Elephant Prajna so QQR could fought him for day and night..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think it's due YD fighting style which not suit to fight with someone like JLFW since YD not good in hand to hand combat that why he only rely on Yiyang Zhi to fight JLFW from distance but too bad his old age couldn't keep up with it also I think during his fight against QQR JLFW not yet fully mastering his 10th Dragon/Elephant Prajna so QQR could fought him for day and night..
    I don't think there has been any point in time in JY's universe whereby certain combat styles (eg. hand combat vs sword) whereby one has an upper advantage.

    Also, JLFW only returned to Central Plains after mastering his level 10. QQR and 1Deng fought JLFW shortly after one another. In fact, you could say that 1Deng had an advantage considering that QQR fought JLFW first.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    I don't think there has been any point in time in JY's universe whereby certain combat styles (eg. hand combat vs sword) whereby one has an upper advantage.

    Also, JLFW only returned to Central Plains after mastering his level 10. QQR and 1Deng fought JLFW shortly after one another. In fact, you could say that 1Deng had an advantage considering that QQR fought JLFW first.
    But JY also said that the 1st time JLFW use his 10th Dragon/Elephant Prajna to fight against opponent is when he fought ZBT in Passionless Valley so he didn't use his new skill when he fought against QQR earlier..

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    I don't think there has been any point in time in JY's universe whereby certain combat styles (eg. hand combat vs sword) whereby one has an upper advantage.

    Also, JLFW only returned to Central Plains after mastering his level 10. QQR and 1Deng fought JLFW shortly after one another. In fact, you could say that 1Deng had an advantage considering that QQR fought JLFW first.
    Of course fighting-style play here that why JY said YD would win by half of stance after 1000 moves against QQR while YG with HIS could beat QQR only in 200 stances so YG > YD at that time I never think about it..

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    Small correction. HR didn't note that YD was losing. She was worried that YD might lose his stamina due to his old age. YD was probably even older than ZBT.

    Also, QQR never surpassed anyone. If anything, he regressed because he stopped training after his repentance.

    In terms of age, it probably goes like this. YD > QQR > GWM. GWM is one generation above GJ, while YD, ZBT et al were 2 generations above GJ.

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    I don't believe in the old age stamina thing because logically, with time, you can cultivate more inner energy and that should provide the fighter with more stamina.
    Jin Yong's martial artists are still human, not immortal. They are still subject to the physical limitations of old age, even if they have tons of internal energy.

    There is no evidence that suggest older fighters are at a disadvantage.
    Actually, you don't have to look too hard to find exactly this. For example, when Shaolin was ganging up on Zhang Sanfeng at his 100th birthday, this is what people thought:

    众人心想:“你话倒说得好听,却原来是要以三敌一。张三丰武功虽高,但百龄老人,精力已衰,未必挡得住少林 三大神僧的联手合力。”

    Everyone thought: "it sounds good, but you're basically ganging up on Zhang Sanfeng 3:1. Although Zhang Sanfeng's martial arts level is high, but at 100 years old, his physically strength has weakened, he may or may not be a match for the combined forces of the 3 divine monks of Shaolin."
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Jin Yong's martial artists are still human, not immortal. They are still subject to the physical limitations of old age, even if they have tons of internal energy.



    Actually, you don't have to look too hard to find exactly this. For example, when Shaolin was ganging up on Zhang Sanfeng at his 100th birthday, this is what people thought:

    众人心想:“你话倒说得好听,却原来是要以三敌一。张三丰武功虽高,但百龄老人,精力已衰,未必挡得住少林 三大神僧的联手合力。”

    Everyone thought: "it sounds good, but you're basically ganging up on Zhang Sanfeng 3:1. Although Zhang Sanfeng's martial arts level is high, but at 100 years old, his physically strength has weakened, he may or may not be a match for the combined forces of the 3 divine monks of Shaolin."
    Didn't apply to Z3F. Looks like at 100 his still a Baby 😁

    "According to various accounts, he was born in Shaowu, Nanping, Fujian near the end of the Southern Song dynasty (around 1270 C.E.) and lived for over 307 years until the mid-Ming dynasty."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Sanfeng

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    Jin Yong's martial artists are still human, not immortal. They are still subject to the physical limitations of old age, even if they have tons of internal energy.



    Actually, you don't have to look too hard to find exactly this. For example, when Shaolin was ganging up on Zhang Sanfeng at his 100th birthday, this is what people thought:

    众人心想:“你话倒说得好听,却原来是要以三敌一。张三丰武功虽高,但百龄老人,精力已衰,未必挡得住少林 三大神僧的联手合力。”

    Everyone thought: "it sounds good, but you're basically ganging up on Zhang Sanfeng 3:1. Although Zhang Sanfeng's martial arts level is high, but at 100 years old, his physically strength has weakened, he may or may not be a match for the combined forces of the 3 divine monks of Shaolin."
    He even not confident enough he could beat A San with Tai Chi after he "realize" A San true power so yeeeah HSDS Z3F still a human..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Didn't apply to Z3F. Looks like at 100 his still a Baby 😁

    "According to various accounts, he was born in Shaowu, Nanping, Fujian near the end of the Southern Song dynasty (around 1270 C.E.) and lived for over 307 years until the mid-Ming dynasty."

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Sanfeng
    But we talk about HSDS Z3F not Z3F as "mitology figure"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    He even not confident enough he could beat A San with Tai Chi after he "realize" A San true power so yeeeah HSDS Z3F still a human..
    I never believed that. Given how in his injured state he one slap KO'd the fake monk assasin.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    I never believed that. Given how in his injured state he one slap KO'd the fake monk assasin.
    If you read the book carefully you would first see that Z3F said to YTZ he confident he could beat A San with his new style Tai Chi then after he see A San true "strength" he didn't believe he could beat him with Tai Chi I think isn't only due his injury but mostly because Tai Chi not suit to fight someone like A San same like YD or HYS they couldn't kill QQR with their "palm" but with their finger..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    If you read the book carefully you would first see that Z3F said to YTZ he confident he could beat A San with his new style Tai Chi then after he see A San true "strength" he didn't believe he could beat him with Tai Chi I think isn't only due his injury but mostly because Tai Chi not suit to fight someone like A San...
    Au contrere, I think it's just the opposite. Tai Chi techniques were designed *specifically* to counter hard styles such as Shaolin's. To win hard against hard, you MUST be stronger than the opponent, and even if you do win, you likely also suffer damage. The genius of Tai Chi techniques is that it diffuses incoming hard force, neutralizing it and protecting the (Tai Chi) user from the damage of kinetic impact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Au contrere, I think it's just the opposite. Tai Chi techniques were designed *specifically* to counter hard styles such as Shaolin's. To win hard against hard, you MUST be stronger than the opponent, and even if you do win, you likely also suffer damage. The genius of Tai Chi techniques is that it diffuses incoming hard force, neutralizing it and protecting the (Tai Chi) user from the damage of kinetic impact.
    I never said Z3F couldn't beat A San or even kill him but he indeed couldn't did it with Tai Chi especially after he injury though he looks confident he could beat A San before he "notice" A San power..

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    I think JY contradict himself here..

    He walked slowly to the centre of the hall. Turning to Yin Tianzheng he said: “I appreciate Brother Yin’s good intentions. In the past few years I’ve created a new set of fist techniques called ‘Taiji Fist’. I believe it is quite different from other forms of martial arts. This benefactor wants to verify that Wudang’s martial arts are real. If Brother Yin defeats him, he won’t be satisfied. Let me exchange a few stances with him and take the opportunity show you the result of my painstaking work over these years.”

    When Yin Tianzheng heard this he was happy and yet worried. Zhang Sanfeng spoke with full confidence in his Taiji Fist. He would not have spoken if he could not back up what he said. But he had just suffered a serious injury, even if the fist technique was excellent, his inner power might be insufficient. Still, he merely cupped his fists and said: “Junior respectfully defers to Master Zhang’s divine skill.” On seeing Zhang Sanfeng unexpectedly come forward, fear struck Ah San’s heart. But he turned his face and said: “Today I’ll fight a battle of life or death with this old Taoist. Neither one of us will escape uninjured. This will shake the martial arts world.” He immediately drew his breath while staring at Zhang Sanfeng’s face. As he held his breath, the sound of bones cracking was heard from all over his body. Everyone was startled. They knew this meant he had achieved the highest level of orthodox Buddhist martial arts. It was the Defeating Demon Diamond Skill.

    When Zhang Sanfeng saw this he was startled: “This is no ordinary person! I wonder if my Taiji Fist can defeat him.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I never said Z3F couldn't beat A San or even kill him but he indeed couldn't did it with Tai Chi especially after he injury though he looks confident he could beat A San before he "notice" A San power..
    It's all about the hows: Mo Dong Sect's martial arts are built on the concept of using soft to neutralize hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    It's all about the hows: Mo Dong Sect's martial arts are built on the concept of using soft to neutralize hard.
    It's true soft could overcome hard but depends to the user just like ZBT said to GJ in LOCH if GJ 18 Dragon Palm as strong as H7G he couldn't force back GJ again with his Vacant Fist (soft art kungfu) GJ also noted that no one from his soft art (Vacant Fist) could "match" H7G full-powered 18 Dragon Palm from H7G during 2nd Huashan duel that's why he also use 18 Dragon Palm to "match" H7G blow..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I never said Z3F couldn't beat A San or even kill him but he indeed couldn't did it with Tai Chi especially after he injury though he looks confident he could beat A San before he "notice" A San power..
    It wasn't spelled out in explicitly but Taiji was totally untested in combat or even practice sparring at that point in time.

    And then it is like a common trope of JY's writing where he keeps talking about how impossible an action is and then within the same paragraph have some bugger perform the deed.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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