7 Stars Big Dipper Formation: wouldn't it be relatively easy for a Great to...?

[Ken Cheng]

Perhaps my understanding of how the Cheun Jen Sect's 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation is poor, but it seems to me that a Great could smash it with relative ease as long as he doesn't play into the formation's hands. For example, if East Heretic Wong Yerk See were use Jade Flute Sword Technique to duel the seven Taoists, then I can see him getting hemmed in by their formation, but he has skills that make getting up close and personal with them completely unnecessary. All he would need to do is use Divine Finger Snap to quickly take out Gok Dai Tung and Sheun But Yee (none of the Disciples have much of a chance to dodge or block the Divine Finger Snap), or perhaps overwhelm them with one of his inner-power generated flute tunes, and the formation would be useless against him. Ditto with North Beggar Hung 7 Gung: perhaps using the Dog Beating Stick Technique to duel it out with the Taoists in the formation would be playing into their hands, but what would stop him from smashing Gok Dai Tung, Sheun But Yee, or even one of the stronger Taoists with Hong Lung 18 Palms? Again, none of them can reliably dodge or block it.

[Western Eccentric]

My point..
- Big Dipper (with Tan Chuduan) ~ HYS/Greats
- Big Dipper (without Tan Chuduan) < HYS/Greats
- Big Dipper (with GJ) > Greats

[CC]

Perhaps my understanding of how the Cheun Jen Sect's 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation is poor, but it seems to me that a Great could smash it with relative ease as long as he doesn't play into the formation's hands. For example, if East Heretic Wong Yerk See were use Jade Flute Sword Technique to duel the seven Taoists, then I can see him getting hemmed in by their formation, but he has skills that make getting up close and personal with them completely unnecessary. All he would need to do is use Divine Finger Snap to quickly take out Gok Dai Tung and Sheun But Yee (none of the Disciples have much of a chance to dodge or block the Divine Finger Snap), or perhaps overwhelm them with one of his inner-power generated flute tunes, and the formation would be useless against him. Ditto with North Beggar Hung 7 Gung: perhaps using the Dog Beating Stick Technique to duel it out with the Taoists in the formation would be playing into their hands, but what would stop him from smashing Gok Dai Tung, Sheun But Yee, or even one of the stronger Taoists with Hong Lung 18 Palms? Again, none of them can reliably dodge or block it.

That's the thing with paper kung fu. Everything in theory smashes everything. e.g. Daizhong way in theory calculates all possibilities and defeats the enemy, DG9J finds the weakness and defeats the enemy, Dragon Palms and HIS uses brute force to defeat the any enemy technique, 24 Variation God and Ghost Exchange seals off all enemy options, Tianshan Plum Breaker Hand encapsulates all the forms possible under heaven etc etc

Use a bit of logic and inter-spatial reasoning and yes, maybe RWX just roaring will knock out 4 of the weaker 7QZ and then its game over.

[Doc Kwok]

All he would need to do is use Divine Finger Snap to quickly take out Gok Dai Tung and Sheun But Yee (none of the Disciples have much of a chance to dodge or block the Divine Finger Snap), or perhaps overwhelm them with one of his inner-power generated flute tunes, and the formation would be useless against him. Ditto with North Beggar Hung 7 Gung: perhaps using the Dog Beating Stick Technique to duel it out with the Taoists in the formation would be playing into their hands, but what would stop him from smashing Gok Dai Tung, Sheun But Yee, or even one of the stronger Taoists with Hong Lung 18 Palms? Again, none of them can reliably dodge or block it.

The big dipper formation combines the strength of its members (they all have one hand on the shoulder of a partner, and attack/defend with the remaining arm), such that each member is capable of wielding the combined inner strength of all 7 participants. Furthermore, each member completely ignores any incoming attacks aimed at themselves, relying solely on their neighbours for defence.

Sheer overwhelming power is generally out of the question, unless you are already stronger than all 7 combined. Superior speed might be an issue, but then, you have up to 7 limbs against just 2, so that might make up for it.

[Stance]

they all have one hand on the shoulder of a partner, and attack/defend with the remaining arm

Serious? Is this how it's described in the novel? Now that sounds stupid, like how can you move about quick enough, with 7 people connected?

[pannonian]

Serious? Is this how it's described in the novel? Now that sounds stupid, like how can you move about quick enough, with 7 people connected?

There is a historical analogy in the Greek hoplite phalanx, where defence, other than the individual's armour, was provided by the shield, and each shield partly defended oneself and partly defended one's partner to the left (since the spear was held in the right hand and the shield in the left). This gave rise to a tendency of hoplites to shuffle to the right, more into the shelter of the neighbour's shield.

[Ken Cheng]

Serious? Is this how it's described in the novel? Now that sounds stupid, like how can you move about quick enough, with 7 people connected?

Sounds like a non-obscene version of the human centipede...cumbersome as hell.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

There is a historical analogy in the Greek hoplite phalanx, where defence, other than the individual's armour, was provided by the shield, and each shield partly defended oneself and partly defended one's partner to the left (since the spear was held in the right hand and the shield in the left). This gave rise to a tendency of hoplites to shuffle to the right, more into the shelter of the neighbour's shield.

The hoplite phalanx formation was undoubtedly a strong formation, but as pointed out above it was rather cumbersome. Historically the more flexible Roman legion proved somewhat more versatile.

[CC]

Serious? Is this how it's described in the novel? Now that sounds stupid, like how can you move about quick enough, with 7 people connected?

It gets even more ludicrous when you start transferring the principles into the Large Big Dipper Formation with 7 teams of 7.

No wonder GJ tore thru it.