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Thread: When and why did the Five Mountains Sword Federation form?

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    Default When and why did the Five Mountains Sword Federation form?

    Is it ever discussed when and why the Five Mountains Sword Federation formed? While some of the member sects, especially Mt. Hua, had likely existed for many generations before SPW (Mt. Hua Sect has roots going back at least as far as the DGSD era, I believe), they did not seem to have a federation until at most 100 years before SPW. Certainly, no such federation appeared to exist in HSDS times. When did the federation form, and for what purpose?

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    According to Chongxu of Wudang:

    "五嶽劍派在武林崛起,不過是近六七十年的事,雖然興旺得快,家底總還不及崑崙、峨嵋,更不用説和少林派博 大精深的七十二絕藝相比了。"

    "The rise to prominence of the Five Mountains Sword sects in wulin, only occurred in the recent 60-70 years, although they rose rapidly, their accumulated base cannot compare to Kunlun or Emei, never mind compared to the deep 72 arts of Shaolin."

    This implies that all five sects, including Huashan, were very new sects - Emei and Wudang (which were very new sects in HSDS) were well established in comparison. Which is odd, since by all rights Huashan should be considerably older than Emei and Wudang (though not necessarily more powerful). My guess is that Huashan as a sect probably died out several times, and a new sect arose from the region later on - this explains why the Huashan of HSDS, of SPW, and of SSwRB/DOMD seem utterly different from each other. In fact, maybe the end of SPW marked one such extinction point...

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    "rise to prominence" could be different to existing right?

    Like they could have existed before 60-70 years, but only started to make a name for themselves in the last 60-70 years.

    Like a new singer performing in bars and clubs before their talent is discovered and rising to fame.
    Last edited by Stance; 10-21-20 at 04:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    According to Chongxu of Wudang:

    "五嶽劍派在武林崛起,不過是近六七十年的事,雖然興旺得快,家底總還不及崑崙、峨嵋,更不用説和少林派博 大精深的七十二絕藝相比了。"

    "The rise to prominence of the Five Mountains Sword sects in wulin, only occurred in the recent 60-70 years, although they rose rapidly, their accumulated base cannot compare to Kunlun or Emei, never mind compared to the deep 72 arts of Shaolin."

    This implies that all five sects, including Huashan, were very new sects - Emei and Wudang (which were very new sects in HSDS) were well established in comparison. Which is odd, since by all rights Huashan should be considerably older than Emei and Wudang (though not necessarily more powerful). My guess is that Huashan as a sect probably died out several times, and a new sect arose from the region later on - this explains why the Huashan of HSDS, of SPW, and of SSwRB/DOMD seem utterly different from each other. In fact, maybe the end of SPW marked one such extinction point...
    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    "rise to prominence" could be different to existing right?

    Like they could have existed before 60-70 years, but only started to make a name for themselves in the last 60-70 years.

    Like a new singer performing in bars and clubs before their talent is discovered and rising to fame.
    It's funny that you use that analogy, Stance, because from Doc Kwok's theory that the Mt. Hua Sects of HSDS, SPW, and SSwRB/DOMD might be entirely different organizations that share only a geographical base and a name, but are of separate lineages, I liken Mt. Hua Sect to the band Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac, when originally founded in the mid-1960s, was an all-British, all-male blues rock band. In that configuration, they enjoyed some moderate success in the late 1960s. When they rebooted and reemerged as a superstar band in the 1970s, they had a mix of British and American personnel, two women and three men, and played California-style pop/rock instead of British blues rock. Were they the same Fleetwood Mac? Yes, and no. The two members who gave the band its name, Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, had been there from the beginning, but the sound and character of the band were completely different in the two eras. Mt. Hua Sect might have had a similar experience.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    It's funny that you use that analogy, Stance, because from Doc Kwok's theory that the Mt. Hua Sects of HSDS, SPW, and SSwRB/DOMD might be entirely different organizations that share only a geographical base and a name, but are of separate lineages, I liken Mt. Hua Sect to the band Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac, when originally founded in the mid-1960s, was an all-British, all-male blues rock band. In that configuration, they enjoyed some moderate success in the late 1960s. When they rebooted and reemerged as a superstar band in the 1970s, they had a mix of British and American personnel, two women and three men, and played California-style pop/rock instead of British blues rock. Were they the same Fleetwood Mac? Yes, and no. The two members who gave the band its name, Mick Fleetwood and John McVie, had been there from the beginning, but the sound and character of the band were completely different in the two eras. Mt. Hua Sect might have had a similar experience.

    With other sects, each time they appear, there was some indication that a certain skill was passed down ie beggar union had dog beating stick & HL18Z ...

    Was it the same for Mt. Hua sect? Was there any mention of the same MA skill that was passed down? This would be a good indication if it was the same sect or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    With other sects, each time they appear, there was some indication that a certain skill was passed down ie beggar union had dog beating stick & HL18Z ...

    Was it the same for Mt. Hua sect? Was there any mention of the same MA skill that was passed down? This would be a good indication if it was the same sect or not.
    That's a good way of looking at it, and it raises another question. The best Mt. Hua Sect warrior in SPW was Fung Ching Yeung, but the skill that enabled him to be one of wulin's elite was Dook Goo 9 Swords. Dook Goo 9 Swords was not a native martial art invented by a Mt. Hua Sword Sect member, but by the mysterious Dook Goo Kau Bai, who as far as we know, was not affiliated with the Mt. Hua Sect or any other wulin sect. That being the case, does Dook Goo 9 Swords really count as a Mt. Hua Sect martial art?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    That's a good way of looking at it, and it raises another question. The best Mt. Hua Sect warrior in SPW was Fung Ching Yeung, but the skill that enabled him to be one of wulin's elite was Dook Goo 9 Swords. Dook Goo 9 Swords was not a native martial art invented by a Mt. Hua Sword Sect member, but by the mysterious Dook Goo Kau Bai, who as far as we know, was not affiliated with the Mt. Hua Sect or any other wulin sect. That being the case, does Dook Goo 9 Swords really count as a Mt. Hua Sect martial art?
    It would be, but Dook Goo 9 Swords never appeared again after SPW?

    Even more interesting, if DGKB left a copy of DG 9 swords manual, you would think the great condor would know about it and could have shown YG?

    So where did FCY get a copy from?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    It would be, but Dook Goo 9 Swords never appeared again after SPW?

    Even more interesting, if DGKB left a copy of DG 9 swords manual, you would think the great condor would know about it and could have shown YG?

    So where did FCY get a copy from?
    The Divine Condor kind of pushed the Heavy Iron Sword at Yeung Gor, so even if the manual for Dook Goo 9 Swords had been there, it would not have been available to him. The Divine Condor seemed to take a look at Yeung Gor and thought, "No...Dook Goo 9 Swords isn't suitable for you. Heavy Iron Sword...that's more your jam."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Divine Condor kind of pushed the Heavy Iron Sword at Yeung Gor, so even if the manual for Dook Goo 9 Swords had been there, it would not have been available to him. The Divine Condor seemed to take a look at Yeung Gor and thought, "No...Dook Goo 9 Swords isn't suitable for you. Heavy Iron Sword...that's more your jam."
    Lol YG could have sold that manual and made some money 😁

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