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Thread: DFBB < ROCH Greats Evidence: JY

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    Default DFBB < ROCH Greats Evidence: JY

    I have always been debating how good was DFBB? Could he/she be better than ROCH Greats? Better than Xiao Feng? The feats that DFBB accomplished in SPW were insane. However, I think DFBB cannot defeat the Greats, as JY's intention.

    I need someone to pull out the exact excerpt, but in SPW, we had LHC and RWX taking on each other in sword skills. LHC's DG9J was winning, but RWX's roar based on internal energy knocked him out. In other words, even in SPW the novel itself, JY wanted to make it clear that internal energy is the most important thing. I always thought SPW was a novel in which JY finally deviated from his "internal energy > all", but apparently this wasn't the case.

    In TLBB, XZ and YTZ both went from nobodies to elite fighters after receiving internal boost. There was no mention about MRF's internal, and he was always at the losing end against top tier fighters. You had to have insane amount of internal before you could learn the top skill-6MSJ. The other top skill was an internal energy skill.

    In LOCH, the coveted skill was...well, 9Yin, an internal energy skill. OYK wasn't taught the Toad Stance because OYF deemed that OYK lacked sufficient internal energy. We saw how not one, but two Greats, could be "held" by a new rising hero if internal energy are not used. The number 1 declared and continually stayed revered by everyone in the novel, WCY, was known for his XTG, an internal energy skill. GJ saw improvement in his skills by leaps and bound after he understood how to unlock his internal energy.

    In ROCH, we have the ice bed, we saw YG focused so much on internal energy. We saw GWM doubled his internal energy.

    In HSDS, ZWJ owed his life to an internal energy skill. Also, insufficient internal energy=no QKDNY, the uber hax skill in HSDS (till 9yin). Like LOCH, this novel was centered around an internal energy-9 Yang.

    And in all the novels-TLBB, LOCH, ROCH and HSDS, having a lot of internal energy was always a sure way to impress people. For instance, in TLBB, XF was impressed by DY being able to force wine out from his fingertips even without fighting (and XF is not some country bumpkin who gets easily impressed). In HSDS, when ZM brought her army to Wudang, YTZ was overwhelmed by the lackey's internal energy.

    So in conclusion, I think JY is pretty clear-internal energy=most important thing.

    There might be one small flaw to point out however. FZ was versed in YJJ and RWX could hold his own against FZ. One way to reconcile this was that the YJJ in SPW was not the same as that in TLBB (this is something I think we all agreed, else FZ would easily be number 1, but he wasn't).

    The best fighter in SPW, was actually someone with great internal energy-Lin Yuan Tu. Now, we know he was from Shaolin origin and tasked with the job to bring back KHBD. I really don't see Shaolin sending out a weak fighter for such a task, so LYT was definitely a strong fighter, to say the least. I would reckon that he had a good/above base of internal energy, even if it wasn't named (remember, we have no idea what XF has either). So with that and KHBD/BXJF, LYT was able to become the best fighter, created an armed escort agency that was feared.

    Now this makes sense too. DFBB himself/herself had a decent internal energy as well. DFBB was number 3 in Sun Moon Cult during RWX's reign. I think it is fair to say DFBB was at least just marginally weaker than XWT (on the basis that RWX taught XWT more). However, DFBB was very ambitious and likely could had been on par with XWT by training even harder.

    Point-DFBB was the best in SPW not only because he/she had KHBD-he/she also had a good internal energy base. Any fighter worth his/her salt needs strong internal energy.

    Now we compare SPW against the Condor trilogy and/or TLBB. There is zero indication that the internal energy cultivation level was anywhere near that of the trilogy or TLBB.

    Conclusion: DFBB won't beat Trilogy Greats.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    There is zero indication that the internal energy cultivation level was anywhere near that of the trilogy or TLBB.
    There is no indication the level wasn't similar though?

    Few points:

    1. The YJJ difference is just speculation, there is no evidence to suggest it isn't the same YJJ. Furthermore, Why would FZ 'easily be number 1' just by mastering YJJ? YTZ learnt YJJ but he wasn't anywhere close to number 1. GJ mastered 9Yin (considered same tier as YJJ) but he's not definitive number 1 among the greats either.

    2. Even if we assume YJJ is a slightly weaker version, do we think FZ is much much weaker than the Greats? How strong/weak do you think FZ is? In the worst case, I'll say FZ is at least on LOCH GJ level.

    3. Can a LOCH great defeat THREE LOCH GJs at the same time? IMO, 2 GJ would be more than enough to take out a Great.

    4. DFBB defeated, approximately, 3 RWXs, who are just slightly weaker than FZ.

    ---

    There's no definite answer and 1 plus 1 isn't always equal 2 in wuxia world.

    However, saying DFBB is worse than Condor Trilogy Great would completely wreck SPW martial arts into oblivion.

    4 Mountain sect leaders would be completely thrash tier.

    Chong Xu would be barely better than Qiu Chu Ji (QZ 7 elders) level.

    Dugu Jiujian would be an absolutely insult to Dugu Qiubai's name.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 04-22-17 at 10:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    There is no indication the level wasn't similar though?

    Few points:

    1. The YJJ difference is just speculation, there is no evidence to suggest it isn't the same YJJ. Furthermore, Why would FZ 'easily be number 1' just by mastering YJJ? YTZ learnt YJJ but he wasn't anywhere close to number 1. GJ mastered 9Yin (considered same tier as YJJ) but he's not definitive number 1 among the greats either.

    2. Even if we assume YJJ is a slightly weaker version, do we think FZ is much much weaker than the Greats? How strong/weak do you think FZ is? In the worst case, I'll say FZ is at least on LOCH GJ level.

    3. Can a LOCH great defeat THREE LOCH GJs at the same time? IMO, 2 GJ would be more than enough to take out a Great.

    4. DFBB defeated, approximately, 3 RWXs (even then, they didn't have great synergy), who are just slightly weaker than FZ.

    ---

    There's no definite answer and 1 plus 1 isn't always equal 2 in wuxia world.

    However, saying DFBB is worse than Condor Trilogy Great would completely wreck SPW martial arts into oblivion.

    4 Mountain sect leaders would be completely thrash tier.

    Chong Xu would be barely better than Qiu Chu Ji (QZ 7 elders) level.

    Dugu Jiujian would be an absolutely insult to Dugu Qiubai's name.
    I like some of the posts in here around SPW's overall martials level.

    http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...-LOCH-and-ROCH

    2. It could very well be possible FZ is around Du Monk level. (Or better but in their same grade.)

    I think comparing Chongxu might give a better estimate. FZ has a lot of hype around him whereas Chongxu should be similarly tiered. But I would say that I believe Chongxu is nowhere near ZWJ.

    Or better yet Chongxu vs ZSF.

    3. Honestly this question is hard to say. We see several times that simply adding fighters doesn't necessarily increase the battle prowess of the team.

    Time and time again, it seems like synergy gives a better 'force multiplier'. I'm assuming you meant ROCH Great but it is very possible in my mind an LOCH Great can take on 2-3 GJs at the same time.

    Again, I am thinking Three GJs doesn't result in this equation.

    GJ = 50
    LOCH Great = 100
    GJ*3 = 150

    GJ*3 (150) > LOCH Great (100)

    I think most of JY fights tend towards the latter which is,
    GJ = 50
    GJ*2 = 60~
    GJ*3 = 70~

    GJ*3 (70) < LOCH Great (100)

    And then you can see the synergy-esque fights.

    YG + XLN == GWM, YTZ + MRF == XF, DU Monks == ZWJ

    4. I'd re-characterize that as he beat RWX + XWT + LHC. LHC at that time had already absorbed a few guys but I think it's disengenous to say DFBB literally beat 3 RWX level fighters.


    However, saying DFBB is worse than Condor Trilogy Great would completely wreck SPW martial arts into oblivion.
    Honestly, I'm not so sure about that. I think we're tiering them and ignoring the gaps between levels. To me, the next group after DFBB is faaaar below the DFBB group. Look at the ROCH Greats, it's the same exact thing.

    DFBB
    *** BIG GAP ***
    [Next Group]
    [Next Group]

    ROCH Greats
    *** BIG GAP ***
    Du Monks/ ETC

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    There is no indication the level wasn't similar though?

    Few points:

    1. The YJJ difference is just speculation, there is no evidence to suggest it isn't the same YJJ. Furthermore, Why would FZ 'easily be number 1' just by mastering YJJ? YTZ learnt YJJ but he wasn't anywhere close to number 1. GJ mastered 9Yin (considered same tier as YJJ) but he's not definitive number 1 among the greats either.

    2. Even if we assume YJJ is a slightly weaker version, do we think FZ is much much weaker than the Greats? How strong/weak do you think FZ is? In the worst case, I'll say FZ is at least on LOCH GJ level.

    3. Can a LOCH great defeat THREE LOCH GJs at the same time? IMO, 2 GJ would be more than enough to take out a Great.

    4. DFBB defeated, approximately, 3 RWXs, who are just slightly weaker than FZ.

    ---

    There's no definite answer and 1 plus 1 isn't always equal 2 in wuxia world.

    However, saying DFBB is worse than Condor Trilogy Great would completely wreck SPW martial arts into oblivion.

    4 Mountain sect leaders would be completely thrash tier.

    Chong Xu would be barely better than Qiu Chu Ji (QZ 7 elders) level.

    Dugu Jiujian would be an absolutely insult to Dugu Qiubai's name.

    1. YTZ, skyrocketed from a nobody just on YJJ. If he had better external skills, I'm sure he would be able to become one of the elites. Abit more time, abit more luck on learning real fighting skills and he would be like a Xu Zhu.

    2. Seems like a good level.

    3. Why not? I know most people say that by end of LOCH, GJ was nearly a Great; however, I think the difference is far far greater. Remember that HYS and H7G were not using internal energy against GJ and still did not go full power (I think they started at 30%). Besides, we saw XF managed MRF and YTZ. I'm sure if we were to add them mathematically, MRF + YTZ > XF. I think we had this argument before if 2 or more fighters were to fight on the same side, what is the real additional boost? In SPW, we saw one of the fighters who went up against DFBB with RWX, LHC, RYY and XWT got blown away immediately, ie. no impact (who was that, DBX?).

    4. If 2 is true, then DFBB ~ LOCH Great level.

    Yes, saying DFBB is worse than Trilogy Great wrecks SPW into oblivion. It puts the 4 Mountan sects into complete thrash tier, but why not? They came together to form one sect (HSDS saw Wudang, Emei, Kunlun, Kotong, Shaolin gang up on Ming Cult, but it was an alliance, not becoming one sect + they actually did an assault on Ming Cult).

    I always felt that Wudang should had gone on a downwards spiral after ZSF. Sure ZWJ was pretty darn good, but I honestly think he lacks what it takes to teach and continue to glorify Wudang. The Wudang 7, sadly, seemed cursed.

    Dugu 9Jian is good, just a pity that its practioners failed to see the importance of internal energy as well. This actually makes sense-FQY was from the sword faction, and (too) proudly so.
    Last edited by hyoyatika; 04-22-17 at 11:18 PM.

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    Now we're talking! Time to pull out some old threads and ideas =)!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post

    3. Why not? I know most people say that by end of LOCH, GJ was nearly a Great; however, I think the difference is far far greater. Remember that HYS and H7G were not using internal energy against GJ and still did not go full power (I think they started at 30%).
    I think you are greatly under-estimating end LOCH GJ. This is the GJ who just received a full year of dedicated practice in the complete volume of 9Yin (best skill in condor trilogy) against a Great-LV sparring partner, on top of whatever he already possess (L/R technique).

    And no, the great didn't start out with 30% internal at 2nd Mt Hua. (and definitely not 'without using internal')

    HYS started off with 70% internal and was quickly force into disadvantageous position. It specifically state that he was worried he will be defeated if he continue using 70% internal. In term of techniques, he switch between multiple types of skills but was unable to regain the upper hand until 100+ exchange later. After that, GJ defenses were "impregnable" (at this point HYS is giving his all) and still GJ manage to hold on until 300 exchange. For H7Q part, GJ was able to take on a 100% fully powered Kang Long You Hui head-on.

    I'll say GJ at this point has ~80% of a great internal, and ~90% of a great technique.

    If "2 GJ" fight the Great one after another, I'll say the Great can win. But at the same time? I don't see how. And to think a Great can defeat 3 GJ is beyond ridiculous IMO.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 04-23-17 at 03:06 AM.

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    4 Mountain sect leaders would be completely thrash tier.

    Chong Xu would be barely better than Qiu Chu Ji (QZ 7 elders) level.
    I've advocated this many times. The 5 sword schools were never supposed to be the Ivy Leagues of the Wulin world. They are more like the vocational colleges... in fact, they are so specialized, that they can barely function without swords!
    But joking aside, I've always got the impression the sword sects were supposed to be below the majors. Hua Shan was the exception in SPW because they came in contact with BiXie (thus leading to the division in chi vs stance). Otherwise, Hua Shan's arts like that purple art or their stances were very weak.

    And comparing Chong Xu to QC7 isn't an inslult. In the LOCH/ROCH universe, how many people can fight QC7 outside of the Greats? Chong Xu and QCJ may not be exactly equal, but they are definitely around the same league.

    Dugu Jiujian would be an absolutely insult to Dugu Qiubai's name.
    Not necessarily. DG9J allowed a LHC to skip leagues into his martial development. Much like how L/R or Jade Maiden (when done between lovers) bumped up their practitioners' prowess. It does not insult DGQB if someone can take a "passed by word of mouth" philosophy from Dugu and still make the learner excel.
    Last edited by Snafu3721; 04-26-17 at 09:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    If "2 GJ" fight the Great one after another, I'll say the Great can win. But at the same time? I don't see how. And to think a Great can defeat 3 GJ is beyond ridiculous IMO.
    Let's just use H7G for the end LOCH fight

    THe fight only lasted as long as it did because H7G didn't want to make HYS look bad. In fact, there were times where had H7G resorted to trickery or actual combat (rather than a formal tournament setting), he would've have taken GJ out easily.

    Now, when serious, H7G used 1 palm and incapacitated GJ. Had H7G just unleashed a few of those, GJ would not stand a chance.

    Edit:
    However, I do believe that none of the Greats can toy around with 3 end-LOCH GJ's like DFBB toyed with LHC and company. However, I don't believe XWT, RWX, and LHC were relatively on the same level as 3 GJ's

    Especially if GJ is believed to be 80% Greats internal and 90% Greats technique
    Last edited by Snafu3721; 04-23-17 at 03:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu3721 View Post
    Let's just use H7G for the end LOCH fight

    THe fight only lasted as long as it did because H7G didn't want to make HYS look bad. In fact, there were times where had H7G resorted to trickery or actual combat (rather than a formal tournament setting), he would've have taken GJ out easily.

    Now, when serious, H7G used 1 palm and incapacitated GJ. Had H7G just unleashed a few of those, GJ would not stand a chance.

    Edit:
    However, I do believe that none of the Greats can toy around with 3 end-LOCH GJ's like DFBB toyed with LHC and company. However, I don't believe XWT, RWX, and LHC were relatively on the same level as 3 GJ's

    Especially if GJ is believed to be 80% Greats internal and 90% Greats technique
    I don't think it's fair to say H7G can "Just unleash a few of those" and GJ would be dead. That's like taking the "finishing blow" of any battle and say A only need 1 blow to win B. H7G did plan to win after 200 exchange, but once again he was surprise by GJ resilience after he went full serious mode.

    Also, it isn't clear if H7G can "keep unleashing" those in the first place. I believe there is some recovery aspect (call it 'mana', 'cooldown', 'time to gather energy', etc...) and a character cannot just keep unleashing 100% strikes at full power.*

    Second, fighting 2 GJ at the same time is MUCH more difficult than taking them 1 after another. You need to dedicate more attention to defense and there is no going "all out attack" because you need to guard against another attacker, especially when that attacker is 80% of your LV.

    E.g. HYS was stalled briefly by 4(?) QZ elders and could not defend himself against OYF sneak attack (leaving his back open). I don't think H7G can use his 'finisher' to incapacitate 1 GJ when another GJ is making equally powerful XL18Z attacks on his back.

    --

    *Side note: Hence the different types of internal energy - Not just brute force but also speed of recovery. I don't remember exactly, but I think it was mention that 9Yin allow Guo Jing in ROCH mongol camp battle to quickly 'regain' his internal and keep unleashing high powered XL18Z.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 04-23-17 at 12:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    I need someone to pull out the exact excerpt, but in SPW, we had LHC and RWX taking on each other in sword skills. LHC's DG9J was winning, but RWX's roar based on internal energy knocked him out. In other words, even in SPW the novel itself, JY wanted to make it clear that internal energy is the most important thing. I always thought SPW was a novel in which JY finally deviated from his "internal energy > all", but apparently this wasn't the case.
    I don't think you can just mention one example and claim it to be the overall trend. Here's a counter example. Remember how badly Yu Canghai lost to post-castration, (almost) internal energy-less Lin Pingzhi? Linghu Chong believed that even an Elite fighter (Jueding Gaoshou, a title usually reserved for the RWX and XF level of their story) would have trouble against Lin.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    Now we compare SPW against the Condor trilogy and/or TLBB. There is zero indication that the internal energy cultivation level was anywhere near that of the trilogy or TLBB.

    Conclusion: DFBB won't beat Trilogy Greats.
    Actually, there is very strong evidence that internal energy cultivation in SPW matched or even exceeded Condor Trilogy levels. The clearest 'apples to apples' comparison is this. Qiu Chuji is arguably THE number one expert below the Greats level, yet when he was narrating the story of Wang Chongyang losing the bet, he had this to say:

    Guo Jing also couldn’t believe it, he extended his finger and traced the writing on the rock, the carvings were indeed written with a finger and said, “That senior’s finger kung fu does indeed frighten people when they hear about it.”

    Qiu Chu Ji and raised his head and laughed out to the sky, “Jing Er, this event could trick my teacher, me and now even you. But if your wife was here, she would not be tricked.”

    Guo Jing opened his eyes wide and said, “Is there some kind of trick involved?”

    Qiu Chu Ji said, “Could it be? Who on earth has the best finger kung fu?”

    Guo Jing said, “Of course its Reverend Yi Deng and his [Solitary Yang Finger].”

    Qiu Chu Ji replied, “Yes! But even with Reverend Yi Deng’s finger kung fu, it would be hard for him to accomplish this feat on a piece of wood, how would he be able to do it on a piece of rock? And could someone else achieve this?
    For Qiu Chuji, writing on wood was a feat which was so incredible that he thought only someone like Yideng was capable of it, thanks to YYZ, and even then only with difficulty. He might've been wrong, but he's in a good position to judge. More importantly, this says that the required level of internal energy (writing on wood) is far, far above Qiu Chuji's level.

    Now let us look at XAJH. At Shaolin, Shaolin Abbot Fangzhang and Beggar's Clan leader Xie Feng held a SECRET conversation by using their fingers to write on one, carving the characters in deeply but with such ease and stealth that no one noticed.

    Beggar Clan's leader Xie Feng suddenly said, "Linghu Chong, come and take a look at these words."

    Linghu Chong stood up and followed his finger to look at three sentences behind a wooden pillar. The first sentence was: "Someone's behind the signage." The second sentence was: "I'll grab him down." The third sentence was: "Wait, this person's internal energy is orthodox and demonical. Don't know yet whether he’s friend or foe." Every word was carved deeply and was clearly seen on the wooden pillar. They were written by Great Master Fangzheng and Xie Feng by using their fingers.
    This isn't surprising from Fangzheng, who is one of the top-tier experts in this novel, but Xie Feng? Xie Feng didn't get much (any) spotlight, but he was generally viewed as being of a tier lower than even the likes of Chongxu, and the Beggar's Clan isn't known for its finger arts. Despite that, he was able to do something which Qiu Chuji felt would be completely impossible for him and most likely very difficult for a ROCH Great. This is a direct testament to how strong/profound the internal energy is in XAJH.
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    Thanks Ren Wo Xing for coming out to defend yourself :P

    I recall feats posted in this forum previously about Xiang Wen Tian which also prove that his internal is of very high LV. Appreciate if someone could find that excerpt.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 04-24-17 at 07:18 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Actually, there is very strong evidence that internal energy cultivation in SPW matched or even exceeded Condor Trilogy levels. The clearest 'apples to apples' comparison is this. Qiu Chuji is arguably THE number one expert below the Greats level, yet when he was narrating the story of Wang Chongyang losing the bet, he had this to say:



    For Qiu Chuji, writing on wood was a feat which was so incredible that he thought only someone like Yideng was capable of it, thanks to YYZ, and even then only with difficulty. He might've been wrong, but he's in a good position to judge. More importantly, this says that the required level of internal energy (writing on wood) is far, far above Qiu Chuji's level.

    Now let us look at XAJH. At Shaolin, Shaolin Abbot Fangzhang and Beggar's Clan leader Xie Feng held a SECRET conversation by using their fingers to write on one, carving the characters in deeply but with such ease and stealth that no one noticed.



    This isn't surprising from Fangzheng, who is one of the top-tier experts in this novel, but Xie Feng? Xie Feng didn't get much (any) spotlight, but he was generally viewed as being of a tier lower than even the likes of Chongxu, and the Beggar's Clan isn't known for its finger arts. Despite that, he was able to do something which Qiu Chuji felt would be completely impossible for him and most likely very difficult for a ROCH Great. This is a direct testament to how strong/profound the internal energy is in XAJH.
    I know it might sound like a desperate stretch, but let's compare it to the NBA. Over the years, the All-Star weekend saw more ridiculous dunks. More pattern than ever. But this hardly mean that fundamentally, the quality of gameplay or playstyle has gotten better.

    But why would SPW fighters want to hone this writing skill? It could be due to a revolution. In SPW, we saw a shift of focus to business and armed escort agencies. Perhaps fighters found it easier to link up with each other by leaving "notes" in rocks/wood as they pass locations and such. As such, being able to carve out words is not much a big deal.

    Besides, the Beggar Clan sect has always been amongst the elite sects. In TLBB, Beggar Sect was number 1 under the leadership of XF. In LOCH, Beggar Sect was tied with WCY's Quanzhen at the time of his passing and surpassed it eventually. ROCH, definitely Beggar Sect, with it holding the fort against the Mongols. In HSDS, we saw it had a downfall, but nonetheless, it was important enough that Chen Youliang wanted to control it. Plus, I remember the clan leader was actually said to be good, I think he fell to a ploy, rather than got defeated outrightly, once again underlining the fact that Beggar Sect is no pushovers that can be taken over by force. Not sure how long the fake Shi Huo Long was at helm for, but it wasn't threatened just on the "wei ming".

    Is there any reason to believe Xie Feng to be weaker than FZ? As you mentioned, he didn't get any spotlight. I think it is actually more fair to assume he might be as good as FZ, or at least of considerable skill, which was why FZ was having this conversation with him. Can you imagine FZ discussing this with someone who is not able to help? FZ was concerned that the man behind would cause problems, he wanted to confide/tell someone, and that person was Xie Feng. I'm not saying Xie Feng is as good as FZ for sure, but he can't be that lousy imo.
    Last edited by hyoyatika; 04-24-17 at 10:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    Thanks Ren Wo Xing for coming out to defend yourself :P

    I recall feats posted in this forum previously about Xiang Wen Tian which also prove that his internal is of very high LV. Appreciate if someone could find that excerpt.
    I'm pretty sure that was my post, actually
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    I recall feats posted in this forum previously about Xiang Wen Tian which also prove that his internal is of very high LV. Appreciate if someone could find that excerpt.
    Laviathan wrote about Xiang Wentian being able to erase footprint (compared to Jueyuan and XF) in the classic "MA Comparison Between LOCH and DGSD" mega thread.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Actually, there is very strong evidence that internal energy cultivation in SPW matched or even exceeded Condor Trilogy levels.
    Here's a few more: Further proof that Smiling Proud Wanderer era kung fu beats DGSD/Trilogy era kung fu

    And if we believe LDA is the ultimate indication of greatness, then even a 4th tier guy in SPW beats the Greats.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  17. #17
    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    In response to the SPW feats which seem very hard to replicate in Condor

    It seems that SPW has a lot more esoteric skills and weird feats. Like the myriad of characters, it's a story filled with many 旁門左道 (non traditional/pure) arts and techniques

    As for the writing on the wood and stone with your finger. Perhaps it's a skill that people in SPW developed. It may not be as internal dependent by SPW as it was in Condor. As an example, GJ has that stairway to heaven skill that allows him to scale a vertical and slippery wall. He is not known for his lightness Kung fu, but many of the guys who are such as XLN and QQR might not be able to replicate that feat. Then there is QCJ who lifted up the extremely ridiculous heavy urn at the beginning of LOCh. If strength is directly proportional to internal energy, then the Greats should be able to lift boulders (but OYF couldn't). What I'm trying to say is that not all feats may be directly linked to a person's internal, nor is being able to perform a feat automatically make you stronger.

    Another few examples:
    XF couldn't kill a tiger with a palm to the tigers face. Yet HYS nonchalantly kills a horse with a pat. As feats are concerned, this makes XF's Palm look weak...yet I don't think anyone would dispute that HYS would lose to XF in a clash of palms.

    In ROCH, YG was able to use his palm power and from a distance launch the hairpin of GX, kill A Jin Flunkie and have the hairpin meld with the metal staff. Even if YG can't write in wood with his finger, he could probably palm blast stone to oblivion. Yet HYS can neutralize that Palm force by flicking HIS FINGERS!

    In HSDS those monks with the Diamond Jin Gang fingers can do ridiculous things with their finger that many of the Greats probably can't. But that alone isn't sufficient to say they are better in internal than a Great...because these monks are definitely not ZWJ level
    Last edited by Snafu3721; 04-24-17 at 09:18 PM.

  18. #18
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    One random thing I kind of wondered is why one would think Yideng would even have strong fingers capable of writing on stone or wood. 1 Yang Zhi is a finger skill, but it's more about hitting acupoints and attacking with inner strength, not necessarily making the user have really strong fingers physically to write one wood/stone.

    If anything, someone like Qiu Qianren who practices Iron Palms which requires physical training of the hands along with comparable inner strength to Yideng would have a better shot at writing on hard surfaces.

  19. #19
    Senior Member CancerLuna's Avatar
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    Do we have a rough estimate of how strong LHC's internal was relative to everyone else in SPW?

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    @PJ : Wasn't that a joke thread? Haha

    Anyway, my opinion is this:

    Even the most skeptical of SPW martial arts generally agree that FZ/RWX is roughly LOCH GJ/Du Monk Level. While I personally think FZ is stronger than that, let's assume this 'worst case' scenario.

    So we ask:

    1. Can a ROCH Great toy with 3 LOCH GJ?

    2. ZWJ, who we agree is at least ROCH Great LV, ~= 2 Du Monk.

    *Of course if you argue about the formation then there's no way around it.

    ------------------

    Hence, there's only 2 possibilities:

    1) FZ is much weaker than LOCH GJ or much weaker than Du Monk. And hence the entire SPW martial arts is thrash.

    2) DFBB is stronger than ROCH Great.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 04-26-17 at 07:26 AM.

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