Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 32 of 32

Thread: Yue Buqun vs Zuo Lengchan was their accurate Skill Level

  1. #21
    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    I took it as he wanted to hide BXJF. If he busted out the 72 moves it would be shameful in front of the sword alliance.

    Why he couldnt just speed up his huashan art, is just plot point.
    I think the whole fake BXJF was to distract and perhaps even hurt ZLC for practicing without castration was very dangerous. Even if it did not hurt ZLC it would waste his time practicing an inferior skill rather than concentrating on his own martial arts.

    As for why YBQ did not just speed up his Huashan skills, this could be a reflection of YBQ's limitations. He is someone who fights how he is taught and lacks creativity. It just never occurred to him to do something so inventive.

  2. #22
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    As for why YBQ did not just speed up his Huashan skills, this could be a reflection of YBQ's limitations. He is someone who fights how he is taught and lacks creativity. It just never occurred to him to do something so inventive.
    Thats really too ridiculous for me to imagine. Even Lin Pingzhi could use the BXJF speed for something like rushing in and tapping an accupoint on Yu Canghai and IIRC he messed with couple of Qingcheng disciples by moving their swords into each other or something like that. Those dont sound like normal 72 BXJF strokes.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  3. #23
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Thats really too ridiculous for me to imagine. Even Lin Pingzhi could use the BXJF speed for something like rushing in and tapping an accupoint on Yu Canghai and IIRC he messed with couple of Qingcheng disciples by moving their swords into each other or something like that. Those dont sound like normal 72 BXJF strokes.
    So this is a bit odd, but in the battle between LHC and YBQ, it is implied that the BXJF speed is inextricably linked to the BXJF technique itself. YBQ is stated to exclusively use BXJF because it was the only technique he could use to possibly beat LHC. I quote, “Even though Yue Buqun knows a lot of other swordplay he could use, he knew Linghu Chong's sword art was actually too strong and that Linghu Chong was also familiar with the Huashan School's sword art. So besides the Evil Resisting Sword Art, there was no other sword art he could use that could gain victory. By now, Yue Buqun had repeated many moves.”

    Now in the LPZ fight against Yu Canghai, that weird stuff is explicitly stated to be a sword art, so presumably it is in fact out of the BXJF.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  4. #24
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Junzi Tao View Post
    I have to point out that LHC's arm was going numb because he was absorbing polar ice energy, not necessarily due to the clash of blows themselves: he stopped becausehe didn't want his energy to get stick like RWX. When ZLC faced RWX, the latter had already fought the abbot previously, and then was forced to jumpstraight into battle against ZLC- we should discount how RWX being exhausted had something to do with how well ZLC was faring.

    As for LHC vs YBQ, we're not debating that LHC is better. 😄

    Putting YBQ at 65 while ZLC is at 64 allows for the former to not outclass the greats. It's rather picky that a rank of 67 would mean that YBQ is on the levels of the LOCH greats ranked at 70, but my stickler on the topic is just that there's a lot of data presented in the YBQ vs ZLC match: it was stated several times that ZLC was trying to dominate YBQ, who was playing quite defensively and not aggressively for almost the entire match. If YBQ's true speed allows him to circumvent point blanc thrusts from ZLC, he arguably could have gone on the offensive that match, if he wasn't trying to maintain his Junzi Jian reputation. There's a lot to be said for an unarmed guy who can casually walk up to someone trying to kill him with a sword!

    This is just speculation, as we only see him fight full.speed later against LHC who admitted that he would have lost quickly had he not been privy to the execution of bixie sword techniques several times prior- how many other prospective opponents can have the luxury of studying up on their opponent's moves before a fight?

    It would have been fun to see more ZLC fights, as many of us agree that he is underrated- in a open, no holds barred match, would he lose to YBQ more often than not? If so, he shouldn't be 2 points higher than YBQ, who I am convinced was holding back during that match at the Alliance meeting. Just because YBQ hedged his bets in that match doesn't discount the display of martial ability we see him perform later in the novel- in many ways, ZLC deserved his fate, considering all the grief he had given just about every other faction in the 5 mountains alliance.
    LHC's sword was 'almost' knocked out of his hand with the first blow, and later on it was knocked out of his hand. I think it's indisputable that ZLC's internal energy is greater, and again, that's not even factoring in the icy energy.

    Regarding the ZLC vs RWX fight, it was specifically stated that thanks to XWT's interference, RWX was able to re-regulate his qi flow and get essentially back to normal.

    Regarding the LHC vs YBQ fight, you first say 'we aren't debating that LHC is better', then bring up LHC examples - because obviously, it's a transitive comparison. However, I believe your statement is incorrect; LHC specifically thought to himself that despite spending lots of time thinking about how to deal with the BXJF, he didn't have any ideas because 'Linghu Chong only managed to see the flaws but they were gone in the next instant which made him unable to attack those flaws. Recently, he had been thinking hard about the flaws in the movements of that sword art, but he had always run into the single difficulty -- the speed of the opponent's swordplay. When a flaw could only be seen fleetingly, it was very hard to attack.' Now, he did think to himself while watching Lin Pingzhi that his DG9J wouldn't be able to break the BXJF - but again, this was because it was simply too fast for him to attack its openings.

    Again - I think it's pretty clear that ZLC has dramatically better internal energy and superior techniques; he also seems to have better palm techniques as well, considering his fight against RWX was bare-handed, and he felt confident in using his palm techniques to defeat LHC in the event his sword techniques weren't enough. YBQ's only advantage is essentially his speed, and I just don't see it, by itself, being enough. You also overstate his speed; it was only when ZLC was blind and poisoned and basically about to unleash a last desperation attack by throwing his sword that YBQ was shown to be able to evade. This doesn't equate to him being able to dodge anything from ZLC no matter what.

    Overall, in 10 matches with full awareness of each other's abilities, I'd say ZLC would edge YBQ 6.5-7 matches out of 10. That, to me, justifies ZLC being 3 points higher. The only way YBQ can win is through a blitz instakill, as it's specifically stated that the longer the battle goes on the more the power of the BXJF drops, and I just don't see him pulling that off easily or regularly against ZLC.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 05-05-21 at 03:32 AM.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  5. #25
    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    1,007

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Thats really too ridiculous for me to imagine. Even Lin Pingzhi could use the BXJF speed for something like rushing in and tapping an accupoint on Yu Canghai and IIRC he messed with couple of Qingcheng disciples by moving their swords into each other or something like that. Those dont sound like normal 72 BXJF strokes.
    In addition to Ren Wo Xing's explanation we must also take into account fighting instincts. If you are toying with someone then you can mess around ie use BXJF speed through Hushan skill. However, YBQ fight with ZLC was not a leisurely affair so YBQ would revert back to his instinctive fighting style, ie sticking exactly to what he is taught/learnt. Thus when using BXJF speed he would only use BXJF skill.

  6. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2021
    Posts
    20

    Default

    This is great guys, it's such a delight to see everyone bringing up their points in a measured way! I'm glad we're having debates again, just like in the old days. 😂😂😂

    For the record, YBQ is still my favourite character, even before his bixie power up. I really shake my head when I think of how he could have made better use out of linghu chong and the cave wall techniques. I'm a real life philosopher and martial arts teacher and I've have exposure to just about every style out there; my own experience was tingling when I saw the YBQ vs ZLC fight, because there were elements that indicate YBQ was quite reserved for most of the fight.

    On an unrelated note, I am very fond of the "Qi drives Sword" (Perhaps I'm also biased because I also teach qigong, and it's my most prominent martial arts foundation), but I respect the practicality of techniques too. Maybe I'll start a new thread to discuss Qi vs Sword, hope you can all be an interactiveas you've been here!

  7. #27
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    5,357

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    So this is a bit odd, but in the battle between LHC and YBQ, it is implied that the BXJF speed is inextricably linked to the BXJF technique itself. YBQ is stated to exclusively use BXJF because it was the only technique he could use to possibly beat LHC. I quote, “Even though Yue Buqun knows a lot of other swordplay he could use, he knew Linghu Chong's sword art was actually too strong and that Linghu Chong was also familiar with the Huashan School's sword art. So besides the Evil Resisting Sword Art, there was no other sword art he could use that could gain victory. By now, Yue Buqun had repeated many moves.”

    Now in the LPZ fight against Yu Canghai, that weird stuff is explicitly stated to be a sword art, so presumably it is in fact out of the BXJF.
    OK its a mess because:

    1. The part where he used his hands to 'tai-chi' the 2 Qingcheng disciple swords into each other was stated by LHC to be a sword art, not a grapple move. Fine, I just have to accept it as part of the 72 moves because for LPZ to use sword-intention is a bit far fetched given his background.

    2. The part where he immobilises Yu Canghai, it was not mentioned as sword form, but LHC gasped and said his movements were like DFBB. But during the DFBB fight, there was no mention that his Sunflower acted like any sword art. So I believe that dashing speed was just that, using BXJF energy to move fast, not specifically executing one of the 72 strokes.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  8. #28
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    OK its a mess because:

    1. The part where he used his hands to 'tai-chi' the 2 Qingcheng disciple swords into each other was stated by LHC to be a sword art, not a grapple move. Fine, I just have to accept it as part of the 72 moves because for LPZ to use sword-intention is a bit far fetched given his background.

    2. The part where he immobilises Yu Canghai, it was not mentioned as sword form, but LHC gasped and said his movements were like DFBB. But during the DFBB fight, there was no mention that his Sunflower acted like any sword art. So I believe that dashing speed was just that, using BXJF energy to move fast, not specifically executing one of the 72 strokes.
    I agree, it's very messy. That being said, there were plenty of people who could move fast, just not DFBB fast, and it was stated that the likes of Tian Boguang, for example, would be able to block two or so strikes from the likes of LPZ - meaning the disparity isn't that big. Plus, the likes of Mu Gaofeng, who wasn't particularly famed for fast attacks, was able to use a 360-spinning defense to render him temporarily impervious to LPZ, at the cost of using up a lot of internal energy.

    "When I first met with Tian Boguang, it was also hard for me to fight against him. But after I've learned the Dugu Nine Swords, his fast knife was no longer fast enough in my eyes. But I'm afraid Tian Boguang wouldn't even be able to take three moves from Lin Pingzhi's fast sword. And me? How many moves would I be able to take?"

    There has to be something unique about the way BXJF/KHBD practitioners move, beyond the raw speed itself. I suspect that the only way to reconcile all this is that the 'real' BXJF is a complete set of techniques that isn't just 72 sword strokes, but also encompasses footwork techniques and other things, just like how in DGSD it was stated that Duan Yu's Lingbo Weibu contained a truly first-rate internal energy technique to it as well. That's the only way to reconcile how it was described in the novel.

    Also, note this, which further reinforces my theory:

    "His movements looked exactly like the moves Yue Buqun used to defeat Zuo Lengchan, even the movement path he had taken was exactly the same."
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 05-05-21 at 07:05 PM.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  9. #29
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,169

    Default

    Conclusion..

    So which stronger ZLC (pre blind) or YBQ (post Bixie Sword)

  10. #30
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Currently DC
    Posts
    6,595

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Conclusion..

    So which stronger ZLC (pre blind) or YBQ (post Bixie Sword)
    My opinion, pre-blind ZLC but only by a bit. In a fight where everyone knows what's up, he'll win more, but YBQ's superior plotting and speed would certainly pose a grave threat in any other situation.
    Read the latest chapters of Coiling Dragon at Wuxia World!

  11. #31
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,169

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    My opinion, pre-blind ZLC but only by a bit. In a fight where everyone knows what's up, he'll win more, but YBQ's superior plotting and speed would certainly pose a grave threat in any other situation.
    Lv 64 ZLC
    Lv 64 YBQ

    Make sense..

  12. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    1,169

    Default

    Sorry I mean..

    Lv 64 ZLC
    Lv 62 YBQ

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-28-21, 02:27 AM
  2. Who is worse for wulin? Yue Buqun or Zuo Lengchan?
    By Trien Chieu in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-14-18, 08:25 AM
  3. Zuo Lengchan Freezing Breath VS Wei Yixiao ice attack
    By aniking_8 in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 03-26-09, 02:21 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •