View Poll Results: Power/Force Require to Repel the Ocean's Waves

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Thread: Super Yeung Gor Super Fantasy and Hype Thread

  1. #141
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    I wonder if YG could incorporate and use the HIS with his Sad Palms. That would be uber cool and powerful

  2. #142
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Didn't H7G and GJ learned the dragon palms with less stances compared to XF's full dragon palms?
    The difference between H7G and GJ's dragon palms is that GJ infused it with 9-Yin for endurance.

    Therefore, XF's original dragon palms was slightly more fierce but GJ's revised/enhanced dragon palms add endurance. In a prolonged fight, GJ will have the advantage, along with his overall superior techniques.

    My analysis is that with XF's going all out at full blasts and his sub-Great internal,
    he will be defeated by GJ in a moderately quick period of time.
    First XF internal was on par with Greats and secondly XF fighting style is not always "straight forward" he could fight "sophisticated" when he fought Xuan Nan and Xuan Ju so I think is almost impossible to beat XF except your internal and external skill better than him..

  3. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    First XF internal was on par with Greats and secondly XF fighting style is not always "straight forward" he could fight "sophisticated" when he fought Xuan Nan and Xuan Ju so I think is almost impossible to beat XF except your internal and external skill better than him..
    Kiu Fung is an incredible specimen. Not only does he easily win the fights he's expected to win, but he has an extraordinary capacity to overperform against opponents who are technically superior to him (such as when he injured the Janitor Monk). Jin Yong also gave him some anomalous moments when he struggled to kill a tiger and when Ah Chu managed to remain alive for up to an hour after receiving his full-force Hong Lung 28 Palms strike. Weird.

  4. #144
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    The whole episode with the tiger happened when Jin Yong temporarily forgot he was writing Wuxia and switched to the Tarzan type genre. Here you see a physical specimen fighting two huge tigers in the wild. It's a raw and beautiful scene. Now if XF would just show up and blast said tigers into oblivion with his Dragon Palms, well, it would ruin the vibe. The reality is that if XF would just roar like YG, those tigers would pee on themselves.

  5. #145
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    Default Power/Force Require to Repel the Ocean's Waves

    How much power/force must Yang Guo exert using the wooden sword to repel the ocean's waves?

    =1000 jins
    >1000 jins
    Much greater than 1000 jins


    Translations by Noodles, et all:


    With his Condor Yang Guo stood on the seaside, looking at the seemingly boundless sea. In spite of his grief, he felt some kind of freedom.


    After a while he heard some rumbling noise coming from afar. It sounded like thunder, coming his way one after another. Based on his experience when he lived at the Peach Blossom Island, he knew that it was the tide, which comes everyday at certain times - around noon and midnight. He looked up and sure enough, the sun was almost directly above his head.


    The thunderous noise slowly coming toward the shore. It sounded like tens of thousands of horses came galloping, or more precisely, stampeding toward him. Not long afterward he saw a white line in the distance, coming fast, and in the next moment that line became massive waves rushing toward the shore. Nobody can say that Yang Guo was a coward, but at that time his face was pale.


    As soon as the waves came near, he kicked sand, propelling his body backward. Out of the blue, while his body was still flying backward, he felt a very strong force pushing him back to the shore. He couldn’t help but fell right back into the coming waves. He was almost drown and drank a couple mouthful of salt water.


    He knew his life was in danger. Fortunately he had practiced hard underneath the waterfall, that he did not lose his wits. Immediately he exerted his energy to his legs, made himself heavy, planted his feet on the ocean floor and stayed down under water. He quickly learned that while the water was moving fiercely on the surface, but it was not moving as fast under the surface. After a while he was able to compose himself and then he understood the Condor’s intention, “Turned out Brother Condor took me here to train me against the ocean waves.”


    After standing still for a moment he jumped out of the water. Alas, at exactly the same moment another wave – as big as a hill – came down crashing on his head. Quickly he exerted his energy one more time and fend off the force with his right shoulder. Again, he fell down underwater.


    This happened several times. By the time the tide receded he was so exhausted that his face was sheet-white. But he was resilient. That very same night he went back wielding his wooden sword, training under the midnight tide.


    Just as at the noon time, massive waves came crashing down on him from every direction. Every time he felt he couldn’t take it anymore, he dived to the bottom of the ocean.


    He trained twice a day and before another month passed, he already felt his energy was a lot stronger. Whenever he practiced his sword techniques on land, his wooden sword roared like the waves. And whenever he practiced with the Condor, it would not dare to parry his sword with its wings. One day they were practicing and in his enthusiasm Yang Guo hacked the Condor with all his might. The Condor dodged his attack; as a result his wooden struck a tree nearby. Both the tree trunk and his sword were broken. Yang Guo told himself, “This wooden sword was a lot weaker than the tree trunk. If I could break the trunk without breaking my wooden sword, only then I would approach Master Dugu’s skill.”


    Spring came and went, summer and autumn too. Time flew fast. Everyday, noon and midnight, rain or shine, Yang Guo trained under the tidal waves. The longer he trained, the louder his wooden sword roared, until he reached a level where the roar was so loud it hurt his own ears. Several months later, the roar was getting softer and softer, until it was so quiet that he could not hear anything. Yet the next several months came and went, the roar was getting louder again. From loud, it became quiet; from quiet, it became loud. After this cycle was repeated seven times, his energy had reached a level where he could make his sword loud or quiet at will. To reach this level, Yang Guo had spent six full years. Now every time the waves came crashing, he was able to force them back. In their training, the Condor was never able to hold Yang Guo for more than three stances.


    One day, after working hard, he stood on the sea shore looking blankly toward the sea. He considered Sword Demon, Dugu Seeking-A-Loss’ life story. “By possessing this tremendous strength, who can be my equal?” he thought, “No wonder Senior Dugu became so lonely that eventually he retreated and buried his swords in that remote mountain area. Ah! I have no doubt without Brother Condor’s assistance I wouldn’t be able to reach this level. I call him ‘Brother Condor’ but in reality he was my trainer/teacher. I don’t know how old is he, and come to think about it, I should have called him ‘grand master’.”


    All the time he was training, Yang Guo never missed any opportunity to ask any sailors who were just landed from their voyages, whether they knew a Buddhist Nun who lived on an island in the South Sea. After many years and uncountable sailors, he did not know any better. Nobody was able to give him even the slightest information that he needed. He gave up and decided to just wait sixteen years like his wife has promised.


    On this no particular day a thought came flashing in his mind. He wielded his wooden sword on his waist, and together with the Condor they walked to the west, toward inland. Since that time they roamed the central plains, including the southern region (jiang-nan).

  6. #146
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    I wonder where is the wooden sword that YG bring when he roaming to Jiangnan 10 years ago..

  7. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I wonder where is the wooden sword that YG bring when he roaming to Jiangnan 10 years ago..
    I was wondering the same thing. That wooden sword should go into display with the other treasures from Jinyong's books.
    I think YG buried the wooden sword after he created Sad Palms, thinking he would never need it again.
    Even if he does, he could always carve a need one

  8. #148
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    He wouldn't have been at full strength at the time. Prior to that, he's been healing Ah Ji for nights on end with few breaks, constantly pouring his life force into her. While at the same time being undernourished and barely having slept a wink.

    Heh. Jui Yin Manor showed that he can perform a roar that's deafening. But the way I see it, there was a hunter with him and a half-dead Ah Ji too, so it's probably better for him not to implicate them as well.

    On Ah Ju, it wasn't a full-powered blast in the 3rd edition. How much this new detail justifies keeping her alive though, is up to the reader.

  9. #149
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    Back to the topic..

    Well I think the ocean force seems more greater than 1000 jins (500 kg)

  10. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Back to the topic..

    Well I think the ocean force seems more greater than 1000 jins (500 kg)
    Based on the source below, a 3.2 feet wide wave has a weight of 1100 pounds.
    However, the South Sea is known to have massive waves, so to repel the waves with speed of 20 miles per hour, Yang Guo's wooden sword must have exerted much greater than 1000 jins (1000 jin=1322.774 pounds).

    Furthermore, the wooden sword should be the same length as the Heavy Iron Sword which is about 1 meter or 3.28 feet long.
    Based on the article the weight of 1 cubic meter of water (1000 liters) equals 1000 kg.
    Therefore, 1000 kg = 1666.667 jins/catties.

    I wonder why Jinyong only always write "a force of 1000 jin/catty" when he referred to a palm force, weapon force. Why not write greater than or much greater than 1000 jin/catty. Something is not correct about his math.

    Pre-16 Jinlun Fawang/YG with HIS force was equivalent to 1000 mins/catties.
    Post-16 Fawang double his internal and post-16 YG had similar internal + the wooden sword or HIS which boosted his overall power/force.
    Therefore, the force of post-16 Fawang/post-16 YG with HIS is much greater than 1000 jins/catties. Incredible!

    Anyways, Yang Guo wooden sword must have exerted a force much greater than 1000 jin/catty to repel the ocean's waves.

    The following source from surfertoday.com:

    So let's do some math.

    According to physicists, a breaking wave can apply a pressure of between 250-6,000 pounds per square foot (1,220-29,294 kilograms per square meter), depending on its height.

    Can you handle numbers like this? There are many variables involved.

    The salinity of the water (the world's average is 3.5 percent); the height, thickness, and width of the falling lip; the winds involved in the equation; traveling speed; etc.

    Although the human body will not literally "feel" those massive numbers, it will definitely feel something.

    Big waves are surely heavy.

    1,000 Liters Equals 1,000 Kilograms
    If you want to get an overall weight for your specific wave, you can roughly memorize that a cubic meter of water (1,000 liters) weighs one metric tonne (1,000 kilograms). How about that?

    For example, a 33-foot (10 meters) wave with a falling lip that is 66 feet (20 meters) wide will mean that, if you wipeout, you'll feel the equivalent of 410 tonnes (410,000 kilograms) over your body.

    That's the weight of 488 Volkswagen Beetles (1967 model)!

    Another example from the average surfer's perspective: imagine a 20-inch (50 centimeters) thick wave lip, only 3.2 feet wide, in a summer three-foot wave.

    Total weight? A solid 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds).

    The weight of a wave lip can be tremendous. So make sure your duck diving skills are up-to-scratch.

    Protect your head and your back, too, because under such weight, obtaining oxygen will almost feel like a secondary need.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Based on the source below, a 3.2 feet wide wave has a weight of 1100 pounds.
    However, the South Sea is known to have massive waves, so to repel the waves with speed of 20 miles per hour, Yang Guo's wooden sword must have exerted much greater than 1000 jins (1000 jin=1322.774 pounds).

    Furthermore, the wooden sword should be the same length as the Heavy Iron Sword which is about 1 meter or 3.28 feet long.
    Based on the article the weight of 1 cubic meter of water (1000 liters) equals 1000 kg.
    Therefore, 1000 kg = 1666.667 jins/catties.

    I wonder why Jinyong only always write "a force of 1000 jin/catty" when he referred to a palm force, weapon force. Why not write greater than or much greater than 1000 jin/catty. Something is not correct about his math.

    Pre-16 Jinlun Fawang/YG with HIS force was equivalent to 1000 mins/catties.
    Post-16 Fawang double his internal and post-16 YG had similar internal + the wooden sword or HIS which boosted his overall power/force.
    Therefore, the force of post-16 Fawang/post-16 YG with HIS is much greater than 1000 jins/catties. Incredible!

    Anyways, Yang Guo wooden sword must have exerted a force much greater than 1000 jin/catty to repel the ocean's waves.

    The following source from surfertoday.com:

    So let's do some math.

    According to physicists, a breaking wave can apply a pressure of between 250-6,000 pounds per square foot (1,220-29,294 kilograms per square meter), depending on its height.

    Can you handle numbers like this? There are many variables involved.

    The salinity of the water (the world's average is 3.5 percent); the height, thickness, and width of the falling lip; the winds involved in the equation; traveling speed; etc.

    Although the human body will not literally "feel" those massive numbers, it will definitely feel something.

    Big waves are surely heavy.

    1,000 Liters Equals 1,000 Kilograms
    If you want to get an overall weight for your specific wave, you can roughly memorize that a cubic meter of water (1,000 liters) weighs one metric tonne (1,000 kilograms). How about that?

    For example, a 33-foot (10 meters) wave with a falling lip that is 66 feet (20 meters) wide will mean that, if you wipeout, you'll feel the equivalent of 410 tonnes (410,000 kilograms) over your body.

    That's the weight of 488 Volkswagen Beetles (1967 model)!

    Another example from the average surfer's perspective: imagine a 20-inch (50 centimeters) thick wave lip, only 3.2 feet wide, in a summer three-foot wave.

    Total weight? A solid 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds).

    The weight of a wave lip can be tremendous. So make sure your duck diving skills are up-to-scratch.

    Protect your head and your back, too, because under such weight, obtaining oxygen will almost feel like a secondary need.
    To WesternEccentric:
    What is your analysis of the above information and my perspective?

  12. #152
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post

    Big waves are surely heavy.

    1,000 Liters Equals 1,000 Kilograms
    If you want to get an overall weight for your specific wave, you can roughly memorize that a cubic meter of water (1,000 liters) weighs one metric tonne (1,000 kilograms). How about that?

    For example, a 33-foot (10 meters) wave with a falling lip that is 66 feet (20 meters) wide will mean that, if you wipeout, you'll feel the equivalent of 410 tonnes (410,000 kilograms) over your body.

    That's the weight of 488 Volkswagen Beetles (1967 model)!

    Another example from the average surfer's perspective: imagine a 20-inch (50 centimeters) thick wave lip, only 3.2 feet wide, in a summer three-foot wave.

    Total weight? A solid 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds).

    The weight of a wave lip can be tremendous. So make sure your duck diving skills are up-to-scratch.

    Protect your head and your back, too, because under such weight, obtaining oxygen will almost feel like a secondary need.
    Dude, physics. What a human would 'feel' is directly related to the DURATION (co-related to volume) and VELOCITY of water hitting his body. The total mass of water that flowed over his head or his side is irelevant, only the mass which hits him matters.

    You want to know what a WAVE THE SIZE OF THE ENTIRE EARTHS OCEAN would feel like if it hit you at say 2 metres per second? Just jump into the sea at 2 m/s. Its the same.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  13. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Dude, physics. What a human would 'feel' is directly related to the DURATION (co-related to volume) and VELOCITY of water hitting his body. The total mass of water that flowed over his head or his side is irelevant, only the mass which hits him matters.

    You want to know what a WAVE THE SIZE OF THE ENTIRE EARTHS OCEAN would feel like if it hit you at say 2 metres per second? Just jump into the sea at 2 m/s. Its the same.
    So do you agree that YG using the wooden sword must exert a force of much greater than 1000 jins/catties to repel the ocean's waves at the impact zone?

    Impact Zone: This is where the lip crashes down to the flat water and is the most powerful part of the wave sequence.

  14. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    So do you agree that YG using the wooden sword must exert a force of much greater than 1000 jins/catties to repel the ocean's waves at the impact zone?

    Impact Zone: This is where the lip crashes down to the flat water and is the most powerful part of the wave sequence.
    A Jin is, in the scientific sense, a nonsensical unit of power. A Jin is a mass/weight.

    Just like saying 1000 lbs of force. You cant. Wat you can have, is 1000 foot-pound of force, which is the 'energy transferred upon applying a force of one pound-force (lbf) through a linear displacement of one foot'.

    But lets say, just for arguments sake, that a force of 1000 jin is equal to the force of 1000 jin pressing down (scientifically, you still need to define an area(for pressure) or time/distance(for force) but screw that for now), heck lets simplify it and say, the amount of water which YG held back or rebuffed, did it weigh more than 1000 jin?

    Who knows, you only need to rebuff the water that is equal to the surface area of your body at a minimum, not the whole 100 yard wide wave. 1000 jin is about 600 kilos which is 600+ litres of water (seawater less dense than 1kg/liter).

    But seriously, like Athena said, JY doesnt care about these math.

    If you want to have nice sounding numbers to buff up your favourite hero, just pick and choose.

    e.g. I want to buff up Xiao Feng, I can cherry pick his wiping stone characters clean with his foot feat and tell you that granite has a compressive strength above 200 Megapascals so Xiao Feng's foot can exert a force with a number followed by many ZEROS followed by a unit of measurement.

    Jiumozhi's palm force could cut a bronze cleanly and bronze has an ultimate tensile strength about 35000 psi which is about 26000 catties per square inch so JMZ's palm wind exerts 26000 catties of force! But wait that not all, if I changed it to square foot instead of square inch, that becomes 3,744,000 catties! Sound impressive compared to 1000 catty?
    Last edited by CC; 06-15-21 at 02:40 AM.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  15. #155
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    Your math is always too advanced for me
    I think you and Athena are trying to fire deviate me.

  16. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    Your math is always too advanced for me
    I think you and Athena are trying to fire deviate me.
    If this happens, there will no longer be any dedicated Yang Guo fans or admirers, who will go the distance to promote him, except for maybe WesternEccentric, he is also a die-hard fan

  17. #157
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    I am not trying to take away your fun from discussing and talking about Jin Yong novels. I think some readers, like me, have learnt that there isn’t a neat, mathematical or physical formula to make fictitious martial arts factual and logical. It is quite paradoxical to use fictious evidence and literary devices to prove something factual. You are using fiction as fact.

    With that said, I agree with Oscar Wilde when he wrote:” "Life imitates Art far more than Art imitates Life". But we can’t use actual physics to normalize feats of Xiao Feng, Guo Jing and/or Yang Guo; no matter how much we love those characters and to use those fictitious facts to prove that one character is more powerful than another.

    We (as the readers or members of this forum) can discuss various fictious feats and enjoy that, but you cannot write that it is fact or canon. It only is canon when Louis Cha writes it, and/or endorses it. Maybe the Jin Yong Estate will publish notes that he had on these matters and they can be accepted by the community as canon. Even if you are right, you have maybe convinced some on this forum, but it is still neither fact nor canon.

    Maybe if you hedge it a little more in your language, there could be more discussion and participation from other members to indulge in a thread like this. Now, there is little room for discussion, because it becomes pointless as you write with so much certainty on something that is purely fictional.

    I mean no disrespect whatsoever in this post and I apologize if it sounds patronizing. It is NOT meant to be patronizing.


    (I am trying to reach 2000 posts without spamming and trolling; maybe this summer I will finally reach 2000 posts).
    Last edited by Athena; 06-15-21 at 04:33 AM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

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  18. #158
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    CMIIW, in Gu Long's universe, White Robe swordsman with 2 swords could walk through the middle of ocean wave toward the shore
    I am a Blogger, my main topic is Wuxia, my blog is https://jianghuindo.blogspot.com

  19. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    If this happens, there will no longer be any dedicated Yang Guo fans or admirers, who will go the distance to promote him, except for maybe WesternEccentric, he is also a die-hard fan
    But I'm not "blind fans"😶😶😶😶

  20. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    But I'm not "blind fans"😶😶😶😶
    1. There is the average fan.

    2. The dedicated fan.

    3. Die-hard fan (who would do almost anything to defend and promote his or her character).

    4.. And the delusional fan.

    I'm between #2 and #3

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