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Thread: Super Yeung Gor Super Fantasy and Hype Thread

  1. #341
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    You could check about DGSD and Trilogy martial arts in file forum posted by Athena..
    Just for the record, I regret doing those martial arts comparisons, and my views have changed from then to now.

    @FeiLongZ, at least read the entire novel before you actually make statements that sound like fact. I would not dare go to a James Joyce forum and start critiquing Ulysses with only one reading of that book.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    Just for the record, I regret doing those martial arts comparisons, and my views have changed from then to now.

    @FeiLongZ, at least read the entire novel before you actually make statements that sound like fact. I would not dare go to a James Joyce forum and start critiquing Ulysses with only one reading of that book.
    @Athena:
    I appreciate your advice.

    I will first finish reading your DGSD vs ROCH thread and then hop to the novel.
    The only Jinyong novel that I finished reading was ROCH because I am a YG fan.

    How has your views changed since almost 20 years ago?

  3. #343
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    @Athena:
    I appreciate your advice.

    I will first finish reading your DGSD vs ROCH thread and then hop to the novel.
    The only Jinyong novel that I finished reading was ROCH because I am a YG fan.

    How has your views changed since almost 20 years ago?
    First of all, there is not a clean way of comparing fictional martial arts in wuxia. The author or authors such as Jin Yong or Gu Long either did not spend too much time working out the mechanics (the wuxia mathematics) or they did not care because the storytelling is more important, and I agree with the latter.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    First of all, there is not a clean way of comparing fictional martial arts in wuxia. The author or authors such as Jin Yong or Gu Long either did not spend too much time working out the mechanics (the wuxia mathematics) or they did not care because the storytelling is more important, and I agree with the latter.
    You mean when Jinyong wrote his novels, he did not put too much emphasis on how powerful a character is or how one character's martial arts is compared to another character's martial arts.

    Also, if a character could seem to perform an extraordinary feat that is more impressive to the eyes compared to another character from a different novel, it doesn't mean that character overall martial arts is higher than the other character?

    The author was more focus on the character's traits and the story as a whole.

    No wonder when someone asked Jinyong during an interview if character A is more powerful than character B, he usually give an opened to interpret answer

  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    You mean when Jinyong wrote his novels, he did not put too much emphasis on how powerful a character is or how one character's martial arts is compared to another character's martial arts.

    Also, if a character could seem to perform an extraordinary feat that is more impressive to the eyes compared to another character from a different novel, it doesn't mean that character overall martial arts is higher than the other character?

    The author was more focus on the character's traits and the story as a whole.

    No wonder when someone asked Jinyong during an interview if character A is more powerful than character B, he usually give an opened to interpret answer
    But we know JMZ at least as good as JLFW and Greats but still he couldn't harm Xuzhu at all even with his 💯% powerful blow so Xuzhu should be around 3x stronger than JMZ and Greats..

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    But we know JMZ at least as good as JLFW and Greats but still he couldn't harm Xuzhu at all even with his 💯% powerful blow so Xuzhu should be around 3x stronger than JMZ and Greats..
    You mean 3 post-16 YGs or 3 post-16 GJ could not defeat the overpowered Xuzhu, who WuxiaMaster ranked at level 90, with weak combat experience? Wow!

  7. #347
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    I am sure Jin Yong did have some sort of schema when he was working on one novel. Across the novels, it is difficult to compare and I feel it is pointless to compare. I enjoy reading ROCH, and I enjoy reading DGSD and why should I compare their martial arts accomplishments of the characters? I would rather discuss the actual accomplishments of characters or the characters themselves, but the martial arts…. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt.

    Sometimes, even in the novel it would be difficult to compare certain characters with another. Is Nimoxing stronger than Gongszun Zhi? I don’t know. Does it matter? It might be fun to speculate, but there is no real evidence to point either way. I can argue that it is X who is stronger or Y that is stronger. It is a moot point.

    With all due respect to you, FeilongZ, and West Eccentric, in the last two weeks you have been arguing back and forth about Yang Guo’s martial arts’ feats, and you have reached a stalemate. However, both of you have a commonality your like for Yang Guo, and you could have used your energy to write about Yang Guo’s character development and moral dilemmas and overcoming them to be a better person.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    You mean 3 post-16 YGs or 3 post-16 GJ could not defeat the overpowered Xuzhu, who WuxiaMaster ranked at level 90, with weak combat experience? Wow!
    Yeeep at least in terms of inner strength no one could bettered Xuzhu except Janitor Monk so 3 GJ or YG only equal to him in terms of power..

  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    I am sure Jin Yong did have some sort of schema when he was working on one novel. Across the novels, it is difficult to compare and I feel it is pointless to compare. I enjoy reading ROCH, and I enjoy reading DGSD and why should I compare their martial arts accomplishments of the characters? I would rather discuss the actual accomplishments of characters or the characters themselves, but the martial arts…. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt.

    Sometimes, even in the novel it would be difficult to compare certain characters with another. Is Nimoxing stronger than Gongszun Zhi? I don’t know. Does it matter? It might be fun to speculate, but there is no real evidence to point either way. I can argue that it is X who is stronger or Y that is stronger. It is a moot point.

    With all due respect to you, FeilongZ, and West Eccentric, in the last two weeks you have been arguing back and forth about Yang Guo’s martial arts’ feats, and you have reached a stalemate. However, both of you have a commonality your like for Yang Guo, and you could have used your energy to write about Yang Guo’s character development and moral dilemmas and overcoming them to be a better person.
    I like YG but I never overhype him since there are a lot people better than him at least 5 people..

  10. #350
    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I like YG but I never overhype him since there are a lot people better than him at least 5 people..
    I didn't say that you overhype him; don't put words in my mouth. With that being said, your forum name is West Eccentric though.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  11. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I like YG but I never overhype him since there are a lot people better than him at least 5 people..
    @Athena:
    I wasn't too hyped about YG until I meet @Western Eccentric

  12. #352
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    I am sure Jin Yong did have some sort of schema when he was working on one novel. Across the novels, it is difficult to compare and I feel it is pointless to compare. I enjoy reading ROCH, and I enjoy reading DGSD and why should I compare their martial arts accomplishments of the characters? I would rather discuss the actual accomplishments of characters or the characters themselves, but the martial arts…. Been there, done that and got the T-shirt.

    Sometimes, even in the novel it would be difficult to compare certain characters with another. Is Nimoxing stronger than Gongszun Zhi? I don’t know. Does it matter? It might be fun to speculate, but there is no real evidence to point either way. I can argue that it is X who is stronger or Y that is stronger. It is a moot point.

    With all due respect to you, FeilongZ, and West Eccentric, in the last two weeks you have been arguing back and forth about Yang Guo’s martial arts’ feats, and you have reached a stalemate. However, both of you have a commonality your like for Yang Guo, and you could have used your energy to write about Yang Guo’s character development and moral dilemmas and overcoming them to be a better person.
    @Athena:
    We should not just too focused with a character's martial arts since this area has been discussed for many years.

    There are many aspects of a character we could discuss like a character's good and bad traits.
    Or discuss character developments.

    Thanks for the enlightenment

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Even if the Jade Emperor descended from the sky, he won't be able to beat YG ... One kick and the Jade emperor is dead.
    What if it is Zhang Sanfeng's heart's desire to turn Yang Guo's kick back on the kicker and defeat him thus?

    Which raises the question: if Zhang Sanfeng can accomplish anything his heart desires, why couldn't he cure Zhang Wuji's Xuanming poison? Could it be that his obligation to his grand-disciple was overcome by a hidden desire to be rid of the little brat?

  14. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    What if it is Zhang Sanfeng's heart's desire to turn Yang Guo's kick back on the kicker and defeat him thus?

    Which raises the question: if Zhang Sanfeng can accomplish anything his heart desires, why couldn't he cure Zhang Wuji's Xuanming poison? Could it be that his obligation to his grand-disciple was overcome by a hidden desire to be rid of the little brat?
    @pannonian:
    I wonder if the highest form of martial arts is executed through your heart or thoughts.
    Sweeper seem to use this form when he instantly kill the two elders by just staring at them.
    YG's true Sad Palms somewhat exhibited this form of martial arts when he semi-consciously unleashed a palm into JLFW's shoulder during the final fight, controlled by his heart.

    If ZSF could use his heart or thoughts to control his martial arts stances, it would display formlessness.
    However, I don't think this would work against YG because his internal and overall martial arts is not inferior to him.

    I also wonder if Dugu qiubai swordless stage incorporates this concept where his heart or thoughts send out sword chi to defeat an opponent.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeilongZ View Post
    I also wonder if Dugu qiubai swordless stage incorporates this concept where his heart or thoughts send out sword chi to defeat an opponent.
    This is the feeling that i get about DKQB. He appeared in a period between DGSD and LOCH and we know all the power houses in DGSD didn't rely on weapons. Most had strong internals or used palm skills.

    Going to LOCH and we see greats have lower level internals and some reliance on a weapon.

    DKQB seems to fit right in between where he moved from relying on a weapon to high internal and swordless. Putting him above LOCH, but i feel good below DGSD top tiers.

    Even though JY wrote that he was matchless during his time. I feel this was true during his time and you can't just take it and apply across all novels and say his matchless across all novels / generations.

    We see later generates use some of his skills and became top tier fighters, but this again is relative to their period.

  16. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    This is the feeling that i get about DKQB. He appeared in a period between DGSD and LOCH and we know all the power houses in DGSD didn't rely on weapons. Most had strong internals or used palm skills.

    Going to LOCH and we see greats have lower level internals and some reliance on a weapon.

    DKQB seems to fit right in between where he moved from relying on a weapon to high internal and swordless. Putting him above LOCH, but i feel good below DGSD top tiers.

    Even though JY wrote that he was matchless during his time. I feel this was true during his time and you can't just take it and apply across all novels and say his matchless across all novels / generations.

    We see later generates use some of his skills and became top tier fighters, but this again is relative to their period.
    I think DGQB stronger than YG at least 3x times stronger stronger which make him on par with Xuzhu but with better fighting prowess and experience..

  17. #357
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think DGQB stronger than YG at least 3x times stronger stronger which make him on par with Xuzhu but with better fighting prowess and experience..
    Sounds about right. Heck...maybe he *was* Hui Juk.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Sounds about right. Heck...maybe he *was* Hui Juk.
    Then we would have saw him go thru the sword stages in DGSD and have strong internals in his 40s.

    Just look at who was a sword master & minor in DGSD and that's the future DGQB.

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    Then we would have saw him go thru the sword stages in DGSD and have strong internals in his 40s.

    Just look at who was a sword master & minor in DGSD and that's the future DGQB.
    DGSD notoriously featured SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan, and the story did begin with the No Measure Sword Sect in Dali, but overall...DGSD wasn't really replete with elite swordsmen. DGSD was about the fetishization of LDA techniques. Using swords in the context of DGSD was almost an admission of inferiority.

  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think DGQB stronger than YG at least 3x times stronger stronger which make him on par with Xuzhu but with better fighting prowess and experience..
    I'm not sure if Dugu's internal could match Xuzhu's internal but overall martial arts, there is a very good chance Dugu is superior.

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