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Thread: How many experts did Zhao Min have working for her?

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Lightbulb How many experts did Zhao Min have working for her?

    How many experts did Zhao Min have working for her?

    Zhao Min made a grand entrance at Wudang leading a large number of soldiers disguised as Ming cultists, but also more than 10 experts.

    Based on this line from Chapter 24:” 張無忌看這幹人時,只見半數穿著明教教眾的服色,為首的十餘人卻各穿本服,想是自高身份,不願 冒充旁人。”

    There were at least around a dozen men who did not wear Ming Cult clothes, and Zhang Wuji thought they must have a high position and refuse to disguise themselves.

    A few of those experts used their internal energy to project their voice, so that Zhang Sangfeng could hear. They were challenging and mocking Zhang Sanfeng.

    張三丰道:「這拳勁首要在似松非松,將展未展,勁斷意不斷……」正要往下解說,只聽得前面三清殿上遠遠傳來 一個蒼老悠長的聲音:「張三丰老道既然縮頭不出,咱們把他徒子徒孫先行宰了。」另一個粗豪的聲音道:「好啊 !先一把火燒了這道觀再說。」又有一個尖銳的聲音道:「燒死老道,那是便宜了他。咱們擒住了他,綁到各處門 派中遊行示眾,讓大家瞧瞧這武學泰斗老而不死的模樣。」後山小院和前殿相距二里有餘,但這幾個人的語聲都清 楚傳至,足見敵人有意炫示功力,而功力確亦不凡。

    After Zhao Min fails to convince Zhang Sanfeng to surrender, she turns around and smiles:” Since Master Zhang is so stubborn, I don’t want to say anything else. I would like all of you to join me.” Then, a large fellow bows slightly to her and moves away. Four figures behind Zhao Min sunddely move forward and surround Zhang Sanfeng. One is a muscular tall man, the second man was dressed in rags (like a beggar), the third was a thin and tall monk and the fourth was a bearded man with blue eyes from the Western Regions.

    Zhang Wuji was shocked to see how fast or steadily they moved and thought:” How does Miss Zhao have so many experts at her command?” Each of them is formidable based on the movements they make.

    趙敏白玉般的左手輕輕一揮,那大漢躬身退開。她微微一笑,說道:「張真人既如此固執,暫且不必說了。就請各 位一起跟我走罷!」說著站起身來,她身後四個人身形晃動,團團將張三丰圍住。這四人一個便是那魁梧大漢,一 個鶉衣百結,一個是身形瘦削的和尚,另一個虯髯碧眼,乃西域胡人. 張無忌見這四人的身法或凝重、或飄逸,個個非同小可,心頭一驚:「這趙姑娘手下,怎地竟有如許高手?」眼見 張三丰若不隨她而去,那四人便要出手,張無忌心想:「敵人甚眾,這一班人又儘是奸詐無恥、不顧信義之輩,非 圍攻光明頂的六大派可比。我實不易保護太師父和三師伯的平安。就算擊敗了其中數人,他們也決計不肯服輸,勢 必一擁而上。但事已至此,也只有竭力一拼,最好是能將趙姑娘擒了過來,脅迫對方。」

    The muscular fellow is certainly not A San, because this unnamed muscular guy does have a short duel with Wei Yixiao, who wins with the help of Shuobude via a sneak attack. I think from memory the TVB adaptation from 1985 had this correct. The only difference is that in the book he does not die. They were evenly matched in the novel.

    Below is the description of Fang Dongbai (A Da,), A Er and A San, they differ from those four described above. So, Zhao Min could have had nine experts at her command (including the Xuanming Elders). It is a shame that those four unnamed ones were forgotten by the writer and were replaced by Tibetan lamas who were somewhat weaker unless they used formation or those mini formations.

    只見那阿大是個精幹枯瘦的老者,雙手捧著一柄長劍,赫然便是那柄倚天寶劍。這人身材瘦長,滿臉皺紋,愁眉苦 臉,似乎剛才給人痛毆了一頓,要不然便是新死了妻子兒女,旁人只要瞧他臉上神情,幾乎便要代他傷心落淚。那 阿二同樣的枯瘦,身材略矮,頭頂心滑油油地,禿得不剩半根頭髮,兩邊太陽穴凹了進去,深陷半寸。那阿三卻是 精壯結實,虎虎有威,臉上、手上、項頸之中,凡是可見到肌肉處,盡皆盤根虯結,似乎周身都是精力,脹得要爆 炸出來,他左頰上有顆黑痣,黑痣上生著一叢長毛。張三丰、殷天正、楊逍等人看了這三人情狀,心 下都是一驚。

    Zhao Min or the Prince of Ruyang did very well in recruiting experts. Poor Wanyan Honglie had to do with Ouyang Ke, Lingzhi, Sha Tongtian, Peng Lianhu, Liang Ziweng and Hou Tonghai. He did get a boost from Qiu Qianren and unofficial ally, Ouyang Feng. HR in the Late Jin Empire was not doing its job properly.
    Last edited by Athena; 06-27-21 at 10:34 PM.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

  2. #2
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post

    Zhao Min or the Prince of Ruyang did very well in recruiting experts. Poor Wanyan Honglie had to do with Ouyang Ke, Lingzhi, Sha Tongtian, Peng Lianhu, Liang Ziweng and Hou Tonghai. He did get a boost from Qiu Qianren and unofficial ally, Ouyang Feng. HR in the Late Jin Empire was not doing its job properly.
    Slim pickings during the LOCH era too. The Greats aside, there weren't many options. Yeun Nan Hung Lit's crew wasn't necessarily bad, per se...but they were up against much stronger opposition. If their enemies weren't the Greats and the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples and their associates, they would have sufficed.

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    *that unnamed fighter who could evenly matched vs Wei Yixiao is realling shocking me!
    Last edited by a_tumiwa; 06-24-21 at 07:49 AM.

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    You’re right there, Ken. Also, I don’t think many martial artists were eager at the prospect of helping an empire that was at its decline.

    Yes, a_tumiwa, the unnamed muscular man was evenly matched with Wei Yixiao; until Shuobude threw a sack with a man in it at the muscular man. He got distracted and got hit by Wei Yixiao.

    那大漢躬身道:「是!」收了收腰間的鸞帶,穩步走到大殿中間,說道:「韋蝠王,在下領教你的寒冰綿掌功夫! 」韋一笑不禁一驚:「這人怎地知道我的寒冰綿掌?他明知我有此技,仍上來挑戰,倒是不可輕敵。」雙掌一拍, 說道:「請教閣下的萬兒?」那人道:「我們既是冒充明教而來,難道還能以真名示人?蝠王這一問,未免太笨。 」趙敏身後的十餘人一齊大笑起來。韋一笑冷冷的道:「不錯,是我問得笨了。閣下甘作朝廷鷹犬,做異族奴才, 還是不說姓名的好,沒的辱沒了祖宗。」那大漢臉上一紅,怒氣上升,呼的一掌,便往韋一笑胸口拍去,竟是中宮 直進,徑取要害。韋一笑腳步錯動,早已避過,身形閃處,伸指戳向他背心,他不先出寒冰綿掌,要先探一探這大 漢的深淺虛實。那大漢左臂後揮,守中含攻。數招一過,大漢掌勢漸快,掌力凌厲。韋一笑的內傷雖經張無忌治好 ,不必再象從前那樣,運功一久,便須飲熱血抑制體內陰毒,但傷愈未久,即逢強敵,又是在張三丰這等大宗師面 前出手,實是絲毫不敢怠慢,當即使動寒冰綿掌功夫。兩人掌勢漸緩,逐步到了互較內力的境地。突然間呼的一聲 ,大門中擲進一團黑黝黝的巨物,猛向那大漢撞去。這團物事比一大袋米還大,天下居然有這等龐大的暗器,當真 奇了。那大漢左掌運勁拍出,將這團物事擊出丈許,著手之處,只覺軟綿綿地,也不知是什麼東西。但聽得「啊」 的一聲慘呼,原來有人藏是袋中。此人中了那大漢勁力無儔的一掌,焉有不筋折骨斷之理?那大漢一愕之下,一時 手足無措。韋一笑無聲無息的欺到身後,在他背心「大椎穴」上拍了一記「寒冰綿掌」。那大漢驚怒交集,急轉身 軀,奮力發掌往韋一笑頭頂擊落。韋一笑哈哈一笑,竟然不避不讓。那大漢掌到中途,手臂已然酸軟無力,這掌雖 然擊在對方天靈蓋上,卻哪裡有半點勁力,不過有如輕輕一抹。韋一笑知道寒冰綿掌一經著身,對方勁力立卸,但 高手對戰,竟敢任由強敵掌擊腦門,膽氣之豪,實是從所未聞,旁觀眾人無不駭然。倘若那大漢竟有抵禦寒冰綿掌 之術,勁力一時不去,這掌打在頭頂,豈不腦漿迸裂?韋一笑一生行事稀奇古怪,逾是旁人不敢為、不肯為、不屑 為之事,他逾是幹得興高采烈。

    In the past, readers often discussed and said that an uninjured Zhang Sanfeng could have dealt with Fang Dongbai, A Er and A San. Now, the question is: can an uninjured Zhang Sanfeng defeat a combined attack of top nine martial arts experts, which include the Xuanming Elders? So, he would face off seven martial artists who are at least around Wei Yixiao to Yang Xiao level and two even higher.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    It's amazing than a random scrub from ZM's entourage could more or less fight Wei Yixiao to a draw. Even without the Xuanming Elders, her team could wreck pretty much any sect, except Shaolin and Wudang.

    Still, a healthy ZSF can handle all of them, I think, as long as they don't resort to dirty tactics like torturing his disciples to distract him. ZSF has shown he can one hit KO one of the XM Elders and Kong Xiang, who is on the same level as Ah Da, Ah Er, Ah San. Remember that these guys, except for the XM Elders, all fight individually and don't have the concept of protecting each other. So in the first 5 minutes, ZSF is gonna fly around and KO 3, 4 fools before they even realize how lethal he is.

    Remember during the fight between ZWJ and Fan Yao, YX and WYX all thought that they could interfere at the right time but the fight escalated so fast that they had no chance. And ZWJ already took it easy on FY because he wanted to gauge his level.

    Great level guys like ZSF and ZWJ are that much better than even the first rate pugilists and most of them are not even aware of the difference. So before they even know it, they're knocked out cold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    It's amazing than a random scrub from ZM's entourage could more or less fight Wei Yixiao to a draw. Even without the Xuanming Elders, her team could wreck pretty much any sect, except Shaolin and Wudang.

    Still, a healthy ZSF can handle all of them, I think, as long as they don't resort to dirty tactics like torturing his disciples to distract him. ZSF has shown he can one hit KO one of the XM Elders and Kong Xiang, who is on the same level as Ah Da, Ah Er, Ah San. Remember that these guys, except for the XM Elders, all fight individually and don't have the concept of protecting each other. So in the first 5 minutes, ZSF is gonna fly around and KO 3, 4 fools before they even realize how lethal he is.

    Remember during the fight between ZWJ and Fan Yao, YX and WYX all thought that they could interfere at the right time but the fight escalated so fast that they had no chance. And ZWJ already took it easy on FY because he wanted to gauge his level.

    Great level guys like ZSF and ZWJ are that much better than even the first rate pugilists and most of them are not even aware of the difference. So before they even know it, they're knocked out cold.
    Well that's would make Z3F the most powerful fighter in Trilogy comparable with XF and DGSD Elites 😶😶😶😶

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    The amount of level 40-50 experts at Juxian manor is probably around that number (9 or 10) plus a bunch of scrubs. XF owned them all. It's not that improbable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    The amount of level 40-50 experts at Juxian manor is probably around that number (9 or 10) plus a bunch of scrubs. XF owned them all. It's not that improbable.
    The strongest were Xuan Nan and Xuan Ji which around Du Monks level and second strongest were Grandpa and Grandma Tan which around Duan Zhengchu or QZ Masters level so only 4 people consider as a "top class" and XF fought them separately..

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