All Female members sect

[a_tumiwa]

in adaptation of HSDS, ngor mei (emei) was always depicted as all-female sect, which is not true based on novel. so how many sects or organizations that really only accept female members in the novel?

[a_tumiwa]

out of my mind in Jin Yong universe,

1. Lingjiu Palace in Demi gods and semi devils (exceptional xuzhu's case)
2. Hengshan sect in smiling proud wanderers (exceptional linghu chong's case)
3. Ming Cult's Earth Gate Division (in 1st edition, this division was led by Yang Buhui, Jin Yong removed the sentence in 2nd ed)


dont know about Gu Long or Ling Yusheng's universe

[Athena]

Your list is right. The real two female martial arts schools would be Ancient Tomb and Northern Hengshan.

With that being said, here is where I wear the hat of female literary critic (maybe even a particular pink hat). Some feminist literary critics point out that both martial arts schools founded by women, for women, occupied by women had to have some male involvement. Northern Hengshan’s leader became male; Dingxian passed on the leadership to Linghu Chong and believing that he could save the school from the patriarchy (represented by Zuo Lengchan). It, then horrifically, becomes you need a man to defeat a man, which is very female unfriendly and patriarchal.

To a large extent, in DGSD, the Lingjiu Palace had the same problem. It was led by an old woman, who rescued a lot of other women and provided a safe place for instance: discarded quadruplet girls, abandoned women or beaten wives. However, when she lost her power (quite literally and figuratively) her inheritor and savior for the safe place (palace) became a man. Similarly, the Ancient Tomb sect had Yang Guo as its most prominent representative in the fourth generation. The previous leaders of the sect with the exception of generation two did not pass the *Bechdel Test at all, and I can also imagine Lin Chaoying speakiing unfondly of Wang Chongyang with her maid; maybe generation two didn't do that well either.

So, we can make two conclusions. Jin Yong is a product and representation of his era; I am not accusing him of being a misogynist, but he did involuntarily help to portray the patriarchy in his fiction. The second conclusion is that the fictitious realm of martial arts is still a man’s place; no matter how strong/powerful the female character is (or is written).

* Bechdel Test: is a measure of the representation of women in fiction. It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added.

[Athena]

Your list is right. The real two female martial arts schools would be Ancient Tomb and Northern Hengshan.

With that being said, here is where I wear the hat of female literary critic (maybe even a particular pink hat). Some feminist literary critics point out that both martial arts schools founded by women, for women, occupied by women had to have some male involvement. Northern Hengshan’s leader became male; Dingxian passed on the leadership to Linghu Chong and believing that he could save the school for the patriarchy (represented by Zuo Lengchan). It, then, horrificly, becomes you need a man to defeat a man, which is very female unfriendly.

In a large extent, in DGSD, the Lingjiu Palace had the same problem. It was led by an old woman, who rescued a lot of other women and provided a safe place for instance discarded quadruplet girls, abandoned women or beaten wives. However, when she lost her power (quite literally and figuratively) her inheritor and savior for the safe place (palace) became a man. Similarly, the Ancient Tomb sect had Yang Guo as its most prominent representative in the fourth generation. The previous leaders of the sect with the exception of generation two did not pass the Bechdel Test at all, and I can also imagine Lin Chaoying speakiing unfondly of Wang Chongyang with her maid; maybe generation two didn't do that well either.

So, we can make two conclusions. Jin Yong is a product and representation of his era; I am not accusing him of being a misogynist, but he did involuntarily help to portray the patriarchy in his fiction. The second conclusion is that the fictitious realm of martial arts is still a man’s place; no matter how strong/powerful the female character is (or is written).

* Bechdel Test: is a measure of the representation of women in fiction. It asks whether a work features at least two women who talk to each other about something other than a man. The requirement that the two women must be named is sometimes added.

No one wants to continue this discussion? It is controversial, but it is also part of a conversation that exists about female representation in fiction whether it is Western literature or Chinese fiction.

I know this is unrelated, but I do think that Chinese popular culture productions (mainland Chinese tv series) don't exactly know how to portray a credible, relatable and independent female protagonist. Instead of creating actual iconic future feminist fictional characters; they create unbelievable Mary Sues.

[a_tumiwa]

yeah Athena, i think if the author is a woman, then the situation and approachment would somewhat different towards female characters. Unfortunately no woman wuxia author can rise to the top of fame.

[a_tumiwa]

these are all-female members sect i can remember in Gu Long's universe, please check :


- Shenshui Palace in chu liuxiang
- Yihua Palace in juedai shuangjiao (exceptional Hua Wuque, and yes he was also planned as the next generation leader, we can see here that Gu Long had a similar view as Jin Yong in this regard)
- Bai Hua (100 flowers) great school in The Sword and the Exquisiteness




any LYS' novel reader? i dont read his novel, did Tianshan school south branch require the disciple must be woman?


need Goddess Athena to verify

[Athena]

Although I have read all of Gu Long’s novels, I cannot remember all of them very clearly. I can only say that Gu Long is really a product of his generation, and he is leaning towards misogyny at times. In Chu Liuxiang’s third novel, he labelled the lesbian love affair between Yin Ji (The Mistress of the Divine Water Palace) and Gong Nanyan as ‘twisted and unnatural’. Gosh, that didn’t age well.

In Lu Xiaofeng, there was the Red Shoes Organization. It was an organization for women, by women, to protect women. Of course, Lu Xiaofeng had to come to save the day. So, it wasn’t very feminist friendly.

I’ve only read two novels by Liang Yusheng. One is the White-haired Maiden, and the other I can’t even remember. Frankly speaking, Lian Nichang is probably the more iconic feminist heroine in modern wuxia, as she didn’t need a man to save her. In fact, she saved Zhuo Yihang more than times than I can count. She also decided that she would rather live alone than be with a man who was more afraid of his elders than true to his feelings towards her.

[Ken Cheng]

Although I have read all of Gu Long’s novels, I cannot remember all of them very clearly. I can only say that Gu Long is really a product of his generation, and he is leaning towards misogyny at times.

Deeply immersed in it, I would say.

In Chu Liuxiang’s third novel, he labelled the lesbian love affair between Yin Ji (The Mistress of the Divine Water Palace) and Gong Nanyan as ‘twisted and unnatural’. Gosh, that didn’t age well.

That he explored it at all during that period is somewhat astonishing.

In Lu Xiaofeng, there was the Red Shoes Organization. It was an organization for women, by women, to protect women. Of course, Lu Xiaofeng had to come to save the day. So, it wasn’t very feminist friendly.

Leader ended up being killed by a man (Yip Goo Sing) too, and the organization pretty much dissolved after that.

[KatherineBurket]

Hello, I'm new here, and I want to confirm that I noticed the same thing, women seem to have less chance of success in this field than any other men, unfortunately. And I think the problem is only in the underappreciation from men. https://freebooksummary.com/category/a-thousand-acres is the source that informed me better about all this for an academic project (I am a student studying literature). On the site, I read the free book summary of "A Thousand Acres" novel by Jane Smiley. It also taught me about gender roles, violence against women, and some ideas of feminism.