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Thread: Obai had monstrous strength...but were his fighting skills any good?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Obai had monstrous strength...but were his fighting skills any good?

    Obai had incredible, monstrous strength...enough that he could tear apart athletic youths with his bare hands. In terms of actual fighting skill, however, was he any good? After all, four centuries earlier during ROCH, Ma Gwong Jor also had prodigious strength, but that alone was not enough to make him a good fighter (his lucky shot on the Golden Wheel Monk's head notwithstanding).

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Funnily enough, Obai’s anglicized name is Oboi (Oh boy).

    康熙始終十分沉著,使開「八卦游龍掌」和鰲拜游斗,但康熙在這路掌法上的造詣頗為有限,更遇到了鰲拜這等天 生神勇的猛將,實在並無多大用處。鰲拜被他打中兩掌,毫不在乎,左腳踢出,正中康熙右腿。

    Kangxi used Wudang’s Eight Trigram Touring Dragon palm to land a few hits on Oboi, but he shrugged them off.

    There could be several reasons for this:
    1) He knew that Kangxi didn’t have the internal strength to power those hits to do him damage.
    2) He was too furious that this boy emperor tried to kill him.
    3) He received military training and not martial arts training, and didn’t know how to block those sophisticated moves.

    According to the novel, he stormed into Ming troops and lifted up soldiers and threw them around. According to loyalists of Oboi, he used his fist to smash the head of a raging bull in Beijing, and while hunting he could kick tigers and panthers to death.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    Funnily enough, Obai’s anglicized name is Oboi (Oh boy).
    I purposely avoid that spelling because it would be difficult to take him seriously.

    康熙始終十分沉著,使開「八卦游龍掌」和鰲拜游斗,但康熙在這路掌法上的造詣頗為有限,更遇到了鰲拜這等天 生神勇的猛將,實在並無多大用處。鰲拜被他打中兩掌,毫不在乎,左腳踢出,正中康熙右腿。

    Kangxi used Wudang’s Eight Trigram Touring Dragon palm to land a few hits on Oboi, but he shrugged them off.

    There could be several reasons for this:
    1) He knew that Kangxi didn’t have the internal strength to power those hits to do him damage.
    2) He was too furious that this boy emperor tried to kill him.
    3) He received military training and not martial arts training, and didn’t know how to block those sophisticated moves.

    According to the novel, he stormed into Ming troops and lifted up soldiers and threw them around. According to loyalists of Oboi, he used his fist to smash the head of a raging bull in Beijing, and while hunting he could kick tigers and panthers to death.
    That's adequate against unskilled opponents, but it seems to me that Obai would struggle against people with formidable skills such as Chan Gun Nam, the One-Armed Nun, Fung Sek Fan, and the Divine Dragon Cult Leader.

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    Personally, I think that there were several people in the Forbidden City who had the ability to kill Oboi/Obai:

    1) Hai Dafu
    2) Mao Dongzhu (the fake empress dowager)
    3) Liu Yan (the martial arts sister of the empress dowager)
    4) Deng Bingchun (the martial arts brother of the empress dowager)
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Senior Member Athena's Avatar
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    I hate to hijack a thread, but Obai/Oboi smashing a raging bull’s skull with his fist is another example how Jin Yong did not really care about martial arts feats.
    We don’t actually see Obai killing the bull, so we have to take the word of captain of the guards who said that, Shi Song.

    If we put this in perspective chronologically (as in dynasty-wise)

    1) DGSD: Xiao Feng could not kill a tiger with 70 per cent of his palm blast.
    2) LOCH: Huang Yaoshi casually smashed the skull of Huazheng’s horse
    3) Obai used his fist to smash a bull’s skull.

    Again, a zoologist will probably say:” The bone density of these three animals is different.” I am not a zoologist, but I will agree with him/her/them. However, I doubt that Jin Yong put that much research in analysing the bone density of these three animals when he was writing those descriptions.
    So huge, so hopeless, to conceive
    As these that twice befell
    Parting is all we know of heaven
    And all we need of hell.

    Emily Dickinson (1830-1886)

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    Personally, I think that there were several people in the Forbidden City who had the ability to kill Oboi/Obai:

    1) Hai Dafu
    2) Mao Dongzhu (the fake empress dowager)
    3) Liu Yan (the martial arts sister of the empress dowager)
    4) Deng Bingchun (the martial arts brother of the empress dowager)
    While I agree Hai Dafu had a chance I am not sure about the other 3. A blind HaiDafu handled Mao Dongzhu with ease and Jiunan also defeated her easily. I don't see your number 3 & 4 being any more powerful than Mao Dongzhu.
    Even if we assume people exaggerated Oboi's ability to kill animals with his bare hands, that fact that he could storm into the heart of armies and emerged largely unscathed show formidable defensive ability along with spatial awareness in combat.

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    there's also the Invicible Iron Palm Rui Dong, dont know if he really knows iron palm martial arts or just a nickname

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    Probably, just a nickname.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Athena View Post
    Personally, I think that there were several people in the Forbidden City who had the ability to kill Oboi/Obai:

    1) Hai Dafu
    2) Mao Dongzhu (the fake empress dowager)
    3) Liu Yan (the martial arts sister of the empress dowager)
    4) Deng Bingchun (the martial arts brother of the empress dowager)
    Funnily enough, every single one of these died (mostly indirectly) because of Wei Xiaobo!

    There is a counter-example though of an experienced military man beating an advanced martial artist one-on-one - Li Zicheng vs Li Xihua. Li Zicheng did not know any advanced fighting techniques but was very experienced in battle, while Li Xihua had advanced martial arts techniques (such that Chen Jinnan considered him a serious threat on their first meeting). Wu Liuqi believed that LXH would kill LZC in short order, but LZC put up a good fight and ended up actually turning the tables on LXH with a sudden roar that caused LXH to drop his sword.

    While I doubt that Hai Dafu would fall for the same trick, Oboi is considerably tougher and stronger than LZC, and just as experienced. I'm not sure who would win among the two, but it probably wouldn't be a sure or easy fight.

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